# CSG1999 **URL:** http://discourse.iapct.org/c/csgnet/csg1999/54.md?page=2 [Latest](http://discourse.iapct.org/latest.md) · [Categories](http://discourse.iapct.org/categories.md) · [Tags](http://discourse.iapct.org/tags.md) **Page:** 3 --- ## [Winning](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/winning/12554)
**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [December 1, 1999, 7:00pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/winning/12554 "1999-12-01T19:00:47Z")
\[From Bruce Nevin (991201.1400 EST)\] And then there are win-win outcomes, achieved by all parties going up a level. Bruce Nevin --- ## [Where Do We Go From Here? RTP again](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/where-do-we-go-from-here-rtp-again/12401)
**Author:** [@Bruce\_Gregory](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Bruce_Gregory)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [December 1, 1999, 6:32pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/where-do-we-go-from-here-rtp-again/12401 "1999-12-01T18:32:54Z")
\[From Bruce Gregory (991201.1332 EST)\] Chuck Tucker (991201b) Thanks Chuck. It's nice to see some data every once in a while. Bruce Gregory --- ## [Where Do We Go From Here? RTP](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/where-do-we-go-from-here-rtp/12400)
**Author:** [@Charles\_W\_Tucker8](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Charles_W_Tucker8)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [December 1, 1999, 6:03pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/where-do-we-go-from-here-rtp/12400 "1999-12-01T18:03:39Z")
Chuck Tucker (991201a) In a message dated 11/29/99 10:47:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, powers\_w@FRONTIER.NET writes: \<\< You seem not to be considering the possibility that you have some wrong ideas about the way Ed Fo… --- ## [Purposeful conflict](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/purposeful-conflict/9306)
**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\ **Replies:** 15\ **Last updated:** [December 1, 1999, 4:46pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/purposeful-conflict/9306 "1999-12-01T16:46:21Z")
\[From Bruce Nevin (991130.1852 EST)\] Marc Abrams (991130.1227) \[From Rick Marken (991130.0840)\] Yes. Football games are purposefully produced interpersonal conflicts; diets are purposefully produced intrapersona… --- ## [Error and Conflict](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/error-and-conflict/3995)
**Author:** [@Marc\_Abrams3](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Marc_Abrams3)\ **Replies:** 9\ **Last updated:** [December 1, 1999, 9:47am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/error-and-conflict/3995 "1999-12-01T09:47:24Z")
from \[ Marc Abrams (991129.2347) \] In a recent discussion with Bruce Gregory he brought up a very intriguing point. Do we set up conflict on purpose? For instance, Are one of the purposes of laws to stop us from cont… --- ## [Thread Summaries](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/thread-summaries/11632)
**Author:** [@Bill\_Curry2](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Bill_Curry2)\ **Replies:** 8\ **Last updated:** [November 30, 1999, 11:07pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/thread-summaries/11632 "1999-11-30T23:07:22Z")
\[From Bill Curry (991129.1435 EST)\] Rick Marken (991129.0820) in re \> Bill Curry (991128.2055 EST) \> Also there is no mechanism at the conclusion of a run to concisely \> sum up what has been learned, added or ch… --- ## [Non-factual statement about what you imagine](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/non-factual-statement-about-what-you-imagine/7738)
**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [November 30, 1999, 5:18pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/non-factual-statement-about-what-you-imagine/7738 "1999-11-30T17:18:07Z")
\[From Bruce Nevin (991129.2327 EST)\] Bruce Gregory (991129.1142 EST) ···At 11:45 AM 11/29/1999 -0500, Bruce Gregory wrote: Bill Powers (991129.0807 MDT) Then I can answer your question easily. "I see you have … --- ## [The RTP Gap](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/the-rtp-gap/11373)
**Author:** [@R\_Marken](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/R_Marken)\ **Replies:** 8\ **Last updated:** [November 30, 1999, 4:17am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/the-rtp-gap/11373 "1999-11-30T04:17:00Z")
\[From Rick Marken (991129.1510)\] Kenny Kitzke (991129.1000)-- 1) Is saying "I see you have chosen" dishonest? Of course it is, if you say it \_knowing\_ that you haven't seen the person chose what you say you saw hi… --- ## ["How the Brain Creates the Mind"](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/how-the-brain-creates-the-mind/247)
**Author:** [@Acree\_Mike](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Acree_Mike)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [November 29, 1999, 9:46pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/how-the-brain-creates-the-mind/247 "1999-11-29T21:46:57Z")
\[Mike Acree (991129.1342 PST)\] Norman Hovda (991129.1431)-- Dec issue \_Scientific American\_, p. 112, Antonio R. Damasio, writes "How the Brain Creates the Mind." Damasio's recent book \_The Feeling of What Happens… --- ## ["How the Brain Creates the Mind."](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/how-the-brain-creates-the-mind/248)
**Author:** [@Norman\_T\_Hovda1](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Norman_T_Hovda1)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [November 29, 1999, 9:33pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/how-the-brain-creates-the-mind/248 "1999-11-29T21:33:07Z")
\[Norman Hovda (991129.1431)\] Dec issue \_Scientific American\_, p. 112, Antonio R. Damasio, writes "How the Brain Creates the Mind." nth --- ## [Symposium on Systems Research in the Arts](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/symposium-on-systems-research-in-the-arts/10925)
**Author:** [@Jim\_Rhodes](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Jim_Rhodes)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [November 27, 1999, 10:43pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/symposium-on-systems-research-in-the-arts/10925 "1999-11-27T22:43:12Z")
A Symposium on Systems Research in the Arts to be held in conjunction with the 11th International Conference on Systems Research, Informa… --- ## [Responsibility III](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/responsibility-iii/9901)
**Author:** [@Bruce\_Gregory](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Bruce_Gregory)\ **Replies:** 66\ **Last updated:** [November 26, 1999, 9:34pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/responsibility-iii/9901 "1999-11-26T21:34:40Z")
\[From Bruce Gregory (991122.0955 EST)\] Rick indicated that he was having trouble translating what he saw as descriptions of attitude (whatever that might be) into descriptions of controlled variables. In case anyone e… --- ## [Control theory](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/control-theory/3005)
**Author:** [@Bill\_Powers1](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Bill_Powers1)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [November 24, 1999, 11:19pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/control-theory/3005 "1999-11-24T23:19:31Z")
\[From Bill Powers (991121.0633)\] I'll be getting back to the Crowd model any day now. I've been working on a method for sharpening optical images beyond their "theoretical limit of resolution," also using feedback pri… --- ## [Pilots and such...](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/pilots-and-such/8866)
**Author:** [@Fred\_Nickols3](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Fred_Nickols3)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [November 24, 1999, 9:33pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/pilots-and-such/8866 "1999-11-24T21:33:35Z")
\[From Fred Nickols (991123.1642)\] -- Bruce Gregory was kind enough to respond to what I suspect was a stupid posting on my part but I'm left a little confused. Bear with me while I retrace some steps... Earlier, I w… --- ## [Bill's Theory](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/bills-theory/1790)
**Author:** [@R\_Marken](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/R_Marken)\ **Replies:** 12\ **Last updated:** [November 24, 1999, 2:25am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/bills-theory/1790 "1999-11-24T02:25:21Z")
\[From Rick Marken (991120.1740)\] I'm sure you're all concerned about how I'm doing after Dag's little tirade yesterday. Well, you don't have to worry. I had a lovely day at (of all places) the Psychonomic Society Meet… --- ## [mary babble?](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/mary-babble/14209)
**Author:** [@Bill\_Powers1](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Bill_Powers1)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [November 23, 1999, 6:57pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/mary-babble/14209 "1999-11-23T18:57:37Z")
\[from Mary Powers 991123\] Kenny, I am surprised you ended your last post with a question, since you don't seem to think I have anything to answer you with but "Mary babble". I guess there is no point attempting to di… --- ## [tilting at cog psych](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/tilting-at-cog-psych/15252)
**Author:** [@Bill\_Powers1](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Bill_Powers1)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [November 23, 1999, 4:21pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/tilting-at-cog-psych/15252 "1999-11-23T16:21:52Z")
\[from Mary Powers (991123)\] Fred Nickols 991121 21:06:12 About PCT vs. the cognitive branch of conventional psychology: there has been plenty of tilting, but not on the net. It has taken place on the doorsteps of t… --- ## [Types & Sources of Reference Conditions](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/types-sources-of-reference-conditions/11852)
**Author:** [@Fred\_Nickols3](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Fred_Nickols3)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [November 22, 1999, 3:37pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/types-sources-of-reference-conditions/11852 "1999-11-22T15:37:45Z")
I kind of like the idea of Bill Powers' Theory (BPT), not the least reason being that it's open only to interpretation by Bill himself. Hmm. Anyway, be it BPT or PCT, I've got a few questions about types and sources … --- ## [Responsibility II](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/responsibility-ii/9900)
**Author:** [@Bruce\_Gregory8](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Bruce_Gregory8)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [November 22, 1999, 2:22am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/responsibility-ii/9900 "1999-11-22T02:22:23Z")
\[From Bruce Gregory (991121.1525 EST)\] I-responsibility and U-responsibility are technical terms associated with the behavior of PCT models--by looking at a particular model it is possible to determine unambiguously i… --- ## [Notation](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/notation/7759)
**Author:** [@Fred\_Nickols3](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Fred_Nickols3)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [November 21, 1999, 11:47pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/notation/7759 "1999-11-21T23:47:08Z")
\[From Fred Nickols (991120.1530)\] -- Rick Marken (991119.0740)\] Bruce Abbott (991118.1940 EST) The environment is the neglected side of PCT What? I think it's far more accurate to say that the environment is th… --- ## [A Point of Clarification](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/a-point-of-clarification/582)
**Author:** [@Fred\_Nickols3](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Fred_Nickols3)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [November 21, 1999, 9:31pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/a-point-of-clarification/582 "1999-11-21T21:31:21Z")
Bruce Abbott's reference to EAB (which I take to mean Experimental Analysis of Behavior) plus the obviously continuing war of words being waged regarding PCT and "conventional psychology" lead me to seek a point of cl… --- ## [For your own good](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/for-your-own-good/4496)
**Author:** [@Fred\_Nickols3](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Fred_Nickols3)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [November 21, 1999, 9:03pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/for-your-own-good/4496 "1999-11-21T21:03:09Z")
\[From Fred Nickols (991120.1550)\] -- Norman Hovda (991119.1416 MST) Ever read Alice Miller's \_For Your Own Good\_ "Hidden cruelty in child-rearing and the roots of violence"? No, I haven't, but I think I will. The… --- ## [Mistake](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/mistake/7053)
**Author:** [@Marc\_Abrams3](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Marc_Abrams3)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [November 21, 1999, 6:50pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/mistake/7053 "1999-11-21T18:50:30Z")
from \[ Marc Abrams (991121.1347) \] Sorry folks. This message was sent in error. My mailserver mixed up some mail and I thought Bill's last post was partially an answer to my last post. from \[ Marc Abrams (991120.1020)… --- ## [Fw: Survey](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/fw-survey/4651)
**Author:** [@R\_Marken](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/R_Marken)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [November 21, 1999, 2:52am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/fw-survey/4651 "1999-11-21T02:52:36Z")
\[From Rick Marken (991119.1255)\] Tim Carey (991120.0630)-- Hi Tim (and Tom) -- Here are my data: During the past six years prior to 19 November 1999, how many schools have you visited where, by any criteria he might… --- ## [Coercion, RTP, arrogance](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/coercion-rtp-arrogance/2614)
**Author:** [@Dag\_Forssell3](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Dag_Forssell3)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [November 20, 1999, 3:03am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/coercion-rtp-arrogance/2614 "1999-11-20T03:03:54Z")
\[From Dag Forssell (991119 1345)\] I have been watching with increasing horror the current replay of the coercion "debate" from the spring of 1998. My error signals are getting huge. My stomach turns. I guess it is cal… --- ## [Neglected side of PCT](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/neglected-side-of-pct/7538)
**Author:** [@Abbott\_Bruce](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Abbott_Bruce)\ **Replies:** 3\ **Last updated:** [November 20, 1999, 2:16am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/neglected-side-of-pct/7538 "1999-11-20T02:16:13Z")
\[From Bruce Abbott (991119.1225 EST)\] Rick Marken (991119.0740) Bruce Abbott (991118.1940 EST) The environment is the neglected side of PCT What? I think it's far more accurate to say that the environment… --- ## [scientific fact regarding coercion](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/scientific-fact-regarding-coercion/14929)
**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\ **Replies:** 107\ **Last updated:** [November 20, 1999, 2:05am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/scientific-fact-regarding-coercion/14929 "1999-11-20T02:05:40Z")
\[From Bruce Nevin (991112.1034 EDT)\] Rick Marken (991111.0820) ···At 07:22 AM 11/11/1999 -0800, Richard Marken wrote: We have as much scientific "fact" regarding coercion as we do about any other aspect of… --- ## [more on love and submission](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/more-on-love-and-submission/14321)
**Author:** [@Bill\_Powers1](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Bill_Powers1)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [November 19, 1999, 4:15pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/more-on-love-and-submission/14321 "1999-11-19T16:15:19Z")
\[from Mary Powers (991117)\] Well, Kenny, if you do subject your will to your wife's will quite often, aren't you breaking the rules of the Bible "which require the husband to be head of the household and head over his… --- ## [category with analogue](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/category-with-analogue/13240)
**Author:** [@Martin\_Taylor](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Martin_Taylor)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [November 19, 1999, 3:23pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/category-with-analogue/13240 "1999-11-19T15:23:09Z")
\[Martin Taylor 991119 02:10\] \[From Bill Powers (991118.0746 MDT)\] Anyway, you still don't understand my critique. The problem of level-skipping is not what you describe: setting references for the angle of the ste… --- ## [Scientific fact regarding coercion](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/scientific-fact-regarding-coercion/10278)
**Author:** [@Marc\_Abrams3](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Marc_Abrams3)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [November 19, 1999, 2:31pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/scientific-fact-regarding-coercion/10278 "1999-11-19T14:31:14Z")
from \[ Marc Abrams (991119.0927) A fitting end to the coercion debacle courtesy of Bill Powers in 1992. Very nice post Bill \[From Bill Powers (921109.1430)\] Rick Marken (921109.0900) -- Good thoughts on means … [Previous page](http://discourse.iapct.org/c/csgnet/csg1999/54.md?page=1) [Next page](http://discourse.iapct.org/c/csgnet/csg1999/54.md?page=3)