# CSG2004

**URL:** http://discourse.iapct.org/c/csgnet/csg2004/59.md

[Latest](http://discourse.iapct.org/latest.md) · [Categories](http://discourse.iapct.org/categories.md) · [Tags](http://discourse.iapct.org/tags.md)

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## [About the CSG2004 category](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/about-the-csg2004-category/192)

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**Author:** [@system](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/system)\
**Replies:** 0\
**Last updated:** [February 1, 2020, 11:29am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/about-the-csg2004-category/192 "2020-02-01T11:29:55Z")

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This is an archive of CSGnet posts from 2004.

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## [CSGnet](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/csgnet/2247)

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**Author:** [@Martin\_Taylor2](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Martin_Taylor2)\
**Replies:** 2\
**Last updated:** [October 8, 2018, 5:36am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/csgnet/2247 "2018-10-08T05:36:15Z")

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\[Martin Taylor 2004.03.30.0956\] On the System Dynamics mailing list today, there was the following message from the list moderator, Bob Eberlein: Hi Everyone, I am pleased to be able to tell you that Tony Kennedy ha…

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## [Emotions](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/emotions/3913)

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**Author:** [@Marc\_Abrams1](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Marc_Abrams1)\
**Replies:** 238\
**Last updated:** [May 2, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/emotions/3913 "2018-05-02T17:11:00Z")

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Hi Folks, From \[Marc Abrams (2004.01.01.0001)\] Happy New Year everyone. Yes, there is a reason for my posting this material at this time. I wanted to start the New Year off on the right foot and what better way to d…

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## [Perception](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/perception/8702)

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**Author:** [@Bruce\_Gregory4](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Bruce_Gregory4)\
**Replies:** 65\
**Last updated:** [February 6, 2018, 4:43pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/perception/8702 "2018-02-06T16:43:14Z")

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\[From Bruce Gregory (2004.01.11.0920)\] "When \_I\_ use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor less." "The question is," said Alice, "whether you…

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## [unsubscribe](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/unsubscribe/15331)

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**Author:** [@Chris\_Mellor](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Chris_Mellor)\
**Replies:** 3\
**Last updated:** [January 1, 2016, 7:36am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/unsubscribe/15331 "2016-01-01T07:36:49Z")

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Please remove me from this mailing list. Thank you

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## [Levels of Perception](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/levels-of-perception/6350)

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**Author:** [@Bill\_Powers1](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Bill_Powers1)\
**Replies:** 12\
**Last updated:** [December 25, 2013, 12:50pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/levels-of-perception/6350 "2013-12-25T12:50:23Z")

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\[From Bill Powers (2004.07.31.0802 MDT)\] I was looking at a picture from the rover Spirit (I give in) as it nears the end of its climb to the top of a rock outcrop on West Spur in the Columbia Hills of Mars. Suddenly …

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## [Price Theory](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/price-theory/9111)

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**Author:** [@Bill\_Williams1](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Bill_Williams1)\
**Replies:** 16\
**Last updated:** [December 6, 2007, 12:45am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/price-theory/9111 "2007-12-06T00:45:14Z")

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From\[Bill Williams 28 May 2004 6:20 PM CST\] \[From Bill Powers (2004.05.28.1053 MDT)\] Bill Williams (2004.,05.,28) -- Have you transcribed that equation accurately? Yes. I see -- that really is a problem, i…

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## [Emotion](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/emotion/3901)

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**Author:** [@Abbott\_Bruce](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Abbott_Bruce)\
**Replies:** 126\
**Last updated:** [April 26, 2007, 8:25pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/emotion/3901 "2007-04-26T20:25:31Z")

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\[From Bruce Abbott (2004.01.07.1200 EST)\] I'd like to share a few of my own thoughts about emotion, which I will state as (unsubstantiated) claims. 1. Emotions are products of what might be called emotion systems of t…

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## [Why?](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/why/12521)

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**Author:** [@Richard\_Marken2](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Richard_Marken2)\
**Replies:** 13\
**Last updated:** [October 17, 2005, 4:15am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/why/12521 "2005-10-17T04:15:54Z")

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\[From Rick Marken (2004.03.17.1620)\] Why has such a pleasant theory (PCT) attracted such unpleasant people? An acquaintance of mine from graduate school, who developed an abiding interest in PCT, contacted me recent…

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## [Prediction (was Learning)](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/prediction-was-learning/9072)

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**Author:** [@Martin\_Taylor2](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Martin_Taylor2)\
**Replies:** 66\
**Last updated:** [December 31, 2004, 11:00pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/prediction-was-learning/9072 "2004-12-31T23:00:46Z")

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\[Martin Taylor 2004.12.25.11.06\] \[From Bill Powers (2004.12.25.0600 MST)\] Martin Taylor 2004.12.25.00.44 -- I stand corrected. I'd forgotten that it was intended mainly to compensate for the impulse response of the…

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## [Priming](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/priming/9115)

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**Author:** [@Bruce\_Gregory6](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Bruce_Gregory6)\
**Replies:** 7\
**Last updated:** [December 31, 2004, 2:12pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/priming/9115 "2004-12-31T14:12:13Z")

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\[From Bruce Gregory (2004.1229.1912)\] Have any PCT models been developed to explain the phenomenon of "Priming"? The enemy of truth is not error. The enemy of truth is certainty.

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## [Bruce Gregory](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/bruce-gregory/1986)

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**Author:** [@Bill\_Powers1](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Bill_Powers1)\
**Replies:** 2\
**Last updated:** [December 30, 2004, 9:14pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/bruce-gregory/1986 "2004-12-30T21:14:40Z")

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\[From Bill Powers (2004.12.30.1109 MST)\] Just so everyone will know, one of my current New Year's resolutions is to reply to Bruce Gregory's posts when an answer might contribute something useful, and delete them when…

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## [Evolution and Control (was(Understandingness ...))](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/evolution-and-control-was-understandingness/4053)

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**Author:** [@Martin\_Taylor2](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Martin_Taylor2)\
**Replies:** 0\
**Last updated:** [December 29, 2004, 9:41pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/evolution-and-control-was-understandingness/4053 "2004-12-29T21:41:59Z")

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Re: Evolution and Control (was(Understandingness …)) \[Martin Taylor 2004.12.29.16.03\] From Dan Mayer (2004.12.29.1515) I said in my last post that I was leaving but I saw this new post and felt it only gentlemanl…

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## [Understandingness (was Re: Prediction (was Learning))](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/understandingness-was-re-prediction-was-learning/11907)

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**Author:** [@Richard\_Marken2](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Richard_Marken2)\
**Replies:** 3\
**Last updated:** [December 29, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/understandingness-was-re-prediction-was-learning/11907 "2004-12-29T20:29:11Z")

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\[From Rick Marken (2004.12.29.0900)\] Bruce Gregory (2004.1229.1034)\] I just came across the following in a book by Llinas that may help to answer a question Rick raised: "The issue of subjectivity is a hotly debated…

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## [Combined auditory-visual experimentation](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/combined-auditory-visual-experimentation/2672)

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**Author:** [@Jim\_Beardsley](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Jim_Beardsley)\
**Replies:** 8\
**Last updated:** [December 28, 2004, 9:03am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/combined-auditory-visual-experimentation/2672 "2004-12-28T09:03:55Z")

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\[From Jim Beardsley (2004.12.21.1000 EST -0500)\] The following abstract from a NewScientist feed piqued my interest and now compels me into curiosity: ��� Ears play visual tricks on us Our ears, it seems, can trick o…

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## [Memory as Reference Signal](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/memory-as-reference-signal/6900)

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**Author:** [@Richard\_Marken2](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Richard_Marken2)\
**Replies:** 24\
**Last updated:** [December 27, 2004, 11:35pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/memory-as-reference-signal/6900 "2004-12-27T23:35:07Z")

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\[From Rick Marken (2004.12.22.1530)\] Richard Thurman (2004.12.22.1345) The cruise control explanation you gave helps me understand the purpose -- but when I code up such a control system, I find that the reference…

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## [No Action Required?](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/no-action-required/7693)

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**Author:** [@Fred\_Nickols3](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Fred_Nickols3)\
**Replies:** 31\
**Last updated:** [December 27, 2004, 11:34pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/no-action-required/7693 "2004-12-27T23:34:53Z")

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As I understand PCT, behavior serves to control perception; more specifically, behavior controls perceptions of what are termed "controlled variables" (Cv). I'm no master of scientific or PCT notation so bear with me…

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## [Surprise and PCT](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/surprise-and-pct/10913)

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**Author:** [@Bruce\_Gregory6](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Bruce_Gregory6)\
**Replies:** 6\
**Last updated:** [December 25, 2004, 7:19pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/surprise-and-pct/10913 "2004-12-25T19:19:53Z")

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\[From Bruce Gregory (2004.1224.2150)\] I would welcome a PCT explanation of the experience of surprise. The enemy of truth is not error. The enemy of truth is certainty.

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## [A Request](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/a-request/612)

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**Author:** [@Bozo\_the\_Clown](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Bozo_the_Clown)\
**Replies:** 0\
**Last updated:** [December 24, 2004, 5:56am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/a-request/612 "2004-12-24T05:56:43Z")

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From \[Marc Abrams (2004.12.24.0026)\] I’m going to try and lay out what my intentions are and I want to see if there is anyone on this list who currently feels this might be of some value. I hope Bill Powers does, and …

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## [Bill Williams](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/bill-williams/1757)

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**Author:** [@Marc\_Abrams1](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Marc_Abrams1)\
**Replies:** 14\
**Last updated:** [December 24, 2004, 5:24am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/bill-williams/1757 "2004-12-24T05:24:19Z")

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From \[Marc Abrams (2004.08.21.0201)\] I was not going to post this stuff but thought differently after some reflection. Bill W, I'm not trying to embarrass you but I gotta say what I gotta say. Bill Powers and Rick …

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## [What about the start up when we control a perception?2](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/what-about-the-start-up-when-we-control-a-perception-2/12272)

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**Author:** [@BJORN\_SIMONSEN](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/BJORN_SIMONSEN)\
**Replies:** 14\
**Last updated:** [December 23, 2004, 9:57am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/what-about-the-start-up-when-we-control-a-perception-2/12272 "2004-12-23T09:57:06Z")

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\[From Bjorn Simonsen (2004.12.16,10:50 EST)\] PCT uses the number of impulses passing through a cross section of all parallel and redundant fibre in a given bundle per unit time (frequency) as measure for the activity …

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## [Memory as Reference Signal (Was No Action Required?)](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/memory-as-reference-signal-was-no-action-required/6901)

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**Author:** [@Richard\_Thurman](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Richard_Thurman)\
**Replies:** 1\
**Last updated:** [December 22, 2004, 11:49pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/memory-as-reference-signal-was-no-action-required/6901 "2004-12-22T23:49:39Z")

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\[From Richard Thurman (2004.12.22.1345)\] Bill Powers (2004.12.20.1640 MST) Thanks, Bill for the references to the cruise control system. That helps to sort out the reasoning for using memory as the reference signal. …

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## [Lurking](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/lurking/6561)

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**Author:** [@Richard\_Thurman](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Richard_Thurman)\
**Replies:** 0\
**Last updated:** [December 20, 2004, 5:38pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/lurking/6561 "2004-12-20T17:38:25Z")

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Lurking \[From Richard Thurman (2004.12.20.1100)\] Kenny Kitzke (2004.12.10,11:00 EST) Rich Thurman was working on a new CSG journal. If no one else would want to write an article on \>MOL for it, I would be amenab…

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## [What PCT is (was What PCT is (and is not)](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/what-pct-is-was-what-pct-is-and-is-not/12265)

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**Author:** [@Bruce\_Gregory6](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Bruce_Gregory6)\
**Replies:** 6\
**Last updated:** [December 20, 2004, 4:48pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/what-pct-is-was-what-pct-is-and-is-not/12265 "2004-12-20T16:48:58Z")

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\[From Bruce Gregory (2004.1219.1132)\] Bill Powers n(2004.12.19.0730 MST) But this is an attempt to limit, not clarify, the domain, both unnecessarily and incorrectly. The domain of PCT is human experience. That include…

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## [A Brief Diversion](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/a-brief-diversion/513)

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**Author:** [@Fred\_Nickols3](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Fred_Nickols3)\
**Replies:** 1\
**Last updated:** [December 20, 2004, 2:31pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/a-brief-diversion/513 "2004-12-20T14:31:31Z")

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\[From Fred Nickols (2004.12.19.1934 EST)\] -- This is one of the better-educated lists to which I belong. Having complimented y'all, allow me a brief and irrelevant diversion. Thomas Kuhn, famous for his book, The Str…

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## [What PCT is (and is not)](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/what-pct-is-and-is-not/12264)

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**Author:** [@Bruce\_Gregory6](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Bruce_Gregory6)\
**Replies:** 26\
**Last updated:** [December 19, 2004, 11:31pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/what-pct-is-and-is-not/12264 "2004-12-19T23:31:07Z")

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\[From Bruce Gregory (2004.1217.1120)\] Bill Powers (2004.12.17.0250 MST) I think it is better to stick to the circuit-diagram level and not try to explain anything in terms of neurons. All we need to know about neuron…

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## [Toward A Theory of Human Performance](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/toward-a-theory-of-human-performance/11736)

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**Author:** [@Fred\_Nickols3](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Fred_Nickols3)\
**Replies:** 2\
**Last updated:** [December 17, 2004, 11:47pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/toward-a-theory-of-human-performance/11736 "2004-12-17T23:47:59Z")

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\[From Fred Nickols (2004.12.17.1155 EST)\] – I’ve been mulling over what I see as a problem with a professional practice area known as Human Performance Technology (HPT). One of its shortcomings, as I see it, is its l…

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## [Uttal's Psychomythics](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/uttals-psychomythics/11965)

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**Author:** [@DAVID\_WOLSK1](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/DAVID_WOLSK1)\
**Replies:** 1\
**Last updated:** [December 15, 2004, 9:33pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/uttals-psychomythics/11965 "2004-12-15T21:33:37Z")

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from David Wolsk 12.15.04 9.15 PST I'm wondering if any PCTers have read the 2003 book by William R. Uttal, "Psychomythics"? I have just sent him an email to inquire if he is aware of PCT since it's unfortunately no…

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## [Wisdom](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/wisdom/12558)

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**Author:** [@Bill\_Powers1](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Bill_Powers1)\
**Replies:** 1\
**Last updated:** [December 15, 2004, 4:35pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/wisdom/12558 "2004-12-15T16:35:30Z")

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\[From Bill Powers (2004.12.15.0450 MST)\] Note to Fred Nickols: In your interchange with Martin Taylor, you understood the word "integrate" differently from the way it was intended. The sense you used was that of orga…

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## [Tennis Players, Ball Players and Decisions](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/tennis-players-ball-players-and-decisions/11110)

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**Author:** [@Fred\_Nickols3](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Fred_Nickols3)\
**Replies:** 26\
**Last updated:** [December 12, 2004, 6:43pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/tennis-players-ball-players-and-decisions/11110 "2004-12-12T18:43:34Z")

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\[From Fred Nickols (2004.12.06.1552 EDT)\] -- I've been looking into decision-making recently (paid work, of course), and I posted a request to another list for some "names" related to decision-making. One respondent …

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