# CSG2017

**URL:** http://discourse.iapct.org/c/csgnet/csg2017/72.md

[Latest](http://discourse.iapct.org/latest.md) · [Categories](http://discourse.iapct.org/categories.md) · [Tags](http://discourse.iapct.org/tags.md)

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## [About the CSG2017 category](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/about-the-csg2017-category/205)

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**Author:** [@system](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/system)\
**Replies:** 0\
**Last updated:** [February 1, 2020, 11:29am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/about-the-csg2017-category/205 "2020-02-01T11:29:56Z")

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This is an archive of CSGnet posts from 2017.

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## [eMail Test](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/email-test/13660)

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**Author:** [@FredNickols](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/FredNickols)\
**Replies:** 3\
**Last updated:** [December 7, 2025, 8:22pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/email-test/13660 "2025-12-07T20:22:45Z")

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\[From Fred Nickols (2017.06.17.1351 ET)\] I responded to Rupert earlier and my response never made it through so I’m checking to see if this does. No need for anyone to respond; I’m just checking to see if it gets throu…

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## [Practopoiesis](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/practopoiesis/9053)

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**Author:** [@rupert](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/rupert)\
**Replies:** 4\
**Last updated:** [October 12, 2018, 6:42pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/practopoiesis/9053 "2018-10-12T18:42:27Z")

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\[From Rupert Young (2017.10.19 14.35)\] Have we come across this before? Here’s a nice little video, "Practopoiesis is a theory on how life organizes, including the organization of a mind. It proposes the principles …

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## [PCT Dissection of an Example](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/pct-dissection-of-an-example/8143)

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**Author:** [@FredNickols](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/FredNickols)\
**Replies:** 15\
**Last updated:** [December 30, 2017, 10:00pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/pct-dissection-of-an-example/8143 "2017-12-30T22:00:26Z")

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Boris et al: Here is a description of a commonplace incident, namely, chopping firewood. I’d appreciate it if you, Boris, and others who are so inclined, would dissect it in PCT terms as you understand PCT. The firewo…

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## [external variables](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/external-variables/13764)

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**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\
**Replies:** 20\
**Last updated:** [December 30, 2017, 2:03pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/external-variables/13764 "2017-12-30T14:03:19Z")

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\[From Bruce Nevin (2017.12.22.20:20 ET)\] I will try to put this very simply. We can know that a variable is an external variable in two ways, by presumption and by coorboration. We know this by presumption all the tim…

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## [":" and what is perceived](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/and-what-is-perceived/214)

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**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\
**Replies:** 23\
**Last updated:** [December 26, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/and-what-is-perceived/214 "2017-12-26T17:30:06Z")

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\[From Bruce Nevin (2017.12.03.23:00 ET)\] Boris Hartman (Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 11:49 PM) – I’ve been putting some effort into understanding what Boris is trying to say. Referring to a passage quoted from the IAPCT front …

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## [methodology and perceived disagreements](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/methodology-and-perceived-disagreements/14249)

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**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\
**Replies:** 2\
**Last updated:** [December 26, 2017, 10:04am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/methodology-and-perceived-disagreements/14249 "2017-12-26T10:04:56Z")

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\[From Bruce Nevin (2017.12.23.11:00 ET)\] Bruce Nevin (2017.12.21.08:46 ET) \[Subject was: Watching your p’s and q.i’s (was Re: Kenneth J. W. Craik on levels of perception and control)\] – A little more about points of vi…

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## [Flip-flop](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/flip-flop/4454)

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**Author:** [@rupert](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/rupert)\
**Replies:** 16\
**Last updated:** [December 24, 2017, 6:42pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/flip-flop/4454 "2017-12-24T18:42:33Z")

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\[From Rupert Young (2017.10.21 11.00)\] Martin, I thought I'd model and run your flip-flop function to see it in action, but it’s not quite working as I would have expected. The circuit diagram configuration is at…

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## [Kenneth J. W. Craik on levels of perception and control](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/kenneth-j-w-craik-on-levels-of-perception-and-control/6035)

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**Author:** [@Abbott](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Abbott)\
**Replies:** 20\
**Last updated:** [December 22, 2017, 1:36pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/kenneth-j-w-craik-on-levels-of-perception-and-control/6035 "2017-12-22T13:36:32Z")

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\[From Bruce Abbott (2017.12.07.1025 EST)\] Continuing my series of posts on Kenneth J. W. Craik’s unfinished book, The Mechanism of Human Action, Chapter 4 was to be entitled “Brain Mechanisms: Levels.” The chapter begi…

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## [the phenomena, then the theory, then the model](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/the-phenomena-then-the-theory-then-the-model/15209)

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**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\
**Replies:** 1\
**Last updated:** [December 20, 2017, 10:07pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/the-phenomena-then-the-theory-then-the-model/15209 "2017-12-20T22:07:56Z")

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\[From Bruce Nevin (2017012020.15:45 ET)\] I’ve started reading again in the correspondence between Bill Powers and Phil Runkel, which Dag in his quietly heroic way has published as Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief Appro…

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## [PCT Glossary](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/pct-glossary/8155)

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**Author:** [@FredNickols](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/FredNickols)\
**Replies:** 6\
**Last updated:** [December 20, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/pct-glossary/8155 "2017-12-20T20:40:26Z")

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\[From Fred Nickols (2017.12.18.1523 ET)\] I’m looking through the glossary in the second edition of B:CP and I am puzzled by the definition of Hierarchy of Control Systems. The glossary states it as follows: HIERARCHY …

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## [Natural language search](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/natural-language-search/7509)

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**Author:** [@rupert](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/rupert)\
**Replies:** 13\
**Last updated:** [December 18, 2017, 7:41pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/natural-language-search/7509 "2017-12-18T19:41:49Z")

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\[From Rupert Young (2017.12.09 21.00)\] Anyone know to what extent natural language processing is used in google searches? They certainly don’t respond in natural language, but just present a list. I would have thoug…

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## [" and what is perceived](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/and-what-is-perceived/211)

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**Author:** [@FredNickols](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/FredNickols)\
**Replies:** 9\
**Last updated:** [December 18, 2017, 7:06pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/and-what-is-perceived/211 "2017-12-18T19:06:24Z")

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\[From Fred Nickols (2017.12.04.0645 ET)\] Well, FWIW, I wrote that paragraph on the IAPCT page. Not sure who put it on the web site. I look through my materials and see exactly from whence it came. Also, FWIW, I sta…

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## [glossary of PCT terms](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/glossary-of-pct-terms/13890)

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**Author:** [@Joh\_Orengo](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Joh_Orengo)\
**Replies:** 3\
**Last updated:** [December 18, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/glossary-of-pct-terms/13890 "2017-12-18T19:04:58Z")

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Hi folks, I was wondering if anybody has a link to or a file of a glossary of PCT terms. Joh ···Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

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## [Book Review of "Your Behavior" by Psych Central](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/book-review-of-your-behavior-by-psych-central/1905)

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**Author:** [@richardhpfau](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/richardhpfau)\
**Replies:** 0\
**Last updated:** [December 14, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/book-review-of-your-behavior-by-psych-central/1905 "2017-12-14T16:40:00Z")

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\[From: Richard Pfau (2017.12.14 11:45 EST)\] The latest book review of “Your Behavior” is posted on Psych Central’s website at https://psychcentral.com/lib/book-review-your-behavior/ . It’s Recommendation: “Worth your t…

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## [Kenneth J. W. Craik on equilibrium and stability](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/kenneth-j-w-craik-on-equilibrium-and-stability/6034)

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**Author:** [@Abbott](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Abbott)\
**Replies:** 3\
**Last updated:** [December 13, 2017, 11:53pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/kenneth-j-w-craik-on-equilibrium-and-stability/6034 "2017-12-13T23:53:26Z")

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\[From Bruce Abbott (2017.11.13.1210 EST)\] Continuing my series of posts on Kenneth J. W. Craik’s unfinished book, The Mechanism of Human Action, Craik has this to say about equilibrium and stability: Living organisms, …

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## [\[mol\] Peregrine falcons](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/mol-peregrine-falcons/12774)

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**Author:** [@wmansell](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/wmansell)\
**Replies:** 3\
**Last updated:** [December 11, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/mol-peregrine-falcons/12774 "2017-12-11T16:13:12Z")

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More relevant for you guys!

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## [PCT game](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/pct-game/8410)

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**Author:** [@rupert](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/rupert)\
**Replies:** 2\
**Last updated:** [December 10, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/pct-game/8410 "2017-12-10T18:16:15Z")

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\[From Rupert Young (2017.12.09 20.45)\] Beyond the tracking task! Here's a fun little PCT game (but aren’t they all). ···https://advisa.se/en/research/brexit-bus/ Regards, Rupert

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## [LWG: Working plan](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/lwg-working-plan/6167)

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**Author:** [@rupert](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/rupert)\
**Replies:** 1\
**Last updated:** [December 8, 2017, 9:33pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/lwg-working-plan/6167 "2017-12-08T21:33:19Z")

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\[From Rupert Young (2017.12.08 18.00)\] Attached is a brain dump of a working plan for investigating PCT learning. Comments, input and volunteers welcome. LWG Working Plan v1.0.pdf (155 KB) ···– Regards, Rupert

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## [PCT by another name: Generative language framework?](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/pct-by-another-name-generative-language-framework/8385)

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**Author:** [@rupert](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/rupert)\
**Replies:** 13\
**Last updated:** [December 8, 2017, 10:26am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/pct-by-another-name-generative-language-framework/8385 "2017-12-08T10:26:45Z")

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\[From Rupert Young (2017.12.05 12.30)\] I was reading section "A generative framework of language comprehension and production in healthy individuals" of the attached (pp2-5) and it was very reminiscent of PCT. Particu…

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## [Karl dialogue](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/karl-dialogue/6013)

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**Author:** [@wmansell](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/wmansell)\
**Replies:** 0\
**Last updated:** [December 8, 2017, 5:20am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/karl-dialogue/6013 "2017-12-08T05:20:05Z")

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This is the dialogue that I think inspired Martin’s diagram: Dear Warren, W:,“Presumably there is also ascending input at each level from which the error is calculated with reference to the ‘prediction’?â€? Yes, y…

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## [Mute inglorious leaky analogy](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/mute-inglorious-leaky-analogy/7432)

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**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\
**Replies:** 0\
**Last updated:** [December 7, 2017, 10:20pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/mute-inglorious-leaky-analogy/7432 "2017-12-07T22:20:46Z")

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Our friend Google leads us to Thomas Gray, ‘Elegy in a country churchyard’: Some village-Hampden, that with dauntless breast The little tyrant of his fields withstood; Some mute inglorious Milton here may rest, …

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## [LA OK?](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/la-ok/6121)

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**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\
**Replies:** 3\
**Last updated:** [December 7, 2017, 7:55pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/la-ok/6121 "2017-12-07T19:55:15Z")

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Rick, I hope you and Linda are OK with the fires in LA. I read in the NYT that flames are practically at the doors of the Getty Museum. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/06/us/california-fires.html

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## [LWG: Parameter reorganisation](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/lwg-parameter-reorganisation/6165)

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**Author:** [@rupert](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/rupert)\
**Replies:** 14\
**Last updated:** [December 6, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/lwg-parameter-reorganisation/6165 "2017-12-06T20:09:48Z")

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\[From Rupert Young (2017.11.25 14.20)\] Here is a demo of a parameter reorganisation using random changes as used in Bill’s demos. (The upload to youtube is a bit blurry so you can see the original here if needs b…

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## [source code](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/source-code/15043)

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**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\
**Replies:** 4\
**Last updated:** [December 6, 2017, 4:55am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/source-code/15043 "2017-12-06T04:55:51Z")

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We just need to visit https://sites.google.com/site/perceptualcontroldemos/ more often, to boost it in the Google ranking. :slight\_smile: ···On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 4:13 PM, Bruce Abbott bbabbott@frontier.com wrote: …

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## [Avoidance](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/avoidance/1398)

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**Author:** [@MartinT](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/MartinT)\
**Replies:** 2\
**Last updated:** [December 4, 2017, 12:36pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/avoidance/1398 "2017-12-04T12:36:25Z")

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\[Martin Taylor 2017.11.30.09.57\] I'm continuing the "powers 1973" thread here because I think the avoidance topic is different. After imbibing what various people have said about avoidance, my own ideas seem to have cha…

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## ["powers 1973" - new results](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/powers-1973-new-results/324)

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**Author:** [@wmansell](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/wmansell)\
**Replies:** 29\
**Last updated:** [December 2, 2017, 4:50am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/powers-1973-new-results/324 "2017-12-02T04:50:16Z")

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Hi there CSGers, I am circulating a neat new study by Jeff that starts to address Charles Carver’s messing about with ‘control theory’… Warren Vancouveravoidance.pdf (882 KB) ···Dr Warren Mansell Reader in Clinical…

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## [Radius of Curvature](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/radius-of-curvature/9491)

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**Author:** [@Abbott](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Abbott)\
**Replies:** 34\
**Last updated:** [December 2, 2017, 4:49am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/radius-of-curvature/9491 "2017-12-02T04:49:56Z")

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\[From Bruce Abbott (2017.11.08.1015 EDT)\] There’s a nice free tutorial on the mathematics of curvature by the Khan Acadamy, beginning here: https://www.khanacademy.org/math/multivariable-calculus/multivariable-derivati…

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## [Kenneth J. W. Craik on reorganization](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/kenneth-j-w-craik-on-reorganization/6037)

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**Author:** [@Abbott](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Abbott)\
**Replies:** 0\
**Last updated:** [November 30, 2017, 4:03pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/kenneth-j-w-craik-on-reorganization/6037 "2017-11-30T16:03:47Z")

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\[From Bruce Abbott (2017.11.30.1100 EST)\] This post continues my examination of Kenneth Craik’s unfinished book, The Mechanism of Human Action. Previously \[Bruce Abbott (2017.11.28.1310 EST)\] I quoted a passage in whic…

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## [Input Control Theory (ICT)](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/input-control-theory-ict/5691)

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**Author:** [@FredNickols](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/FredNickols)\
**Replies:** 12\
**Last updated:** [November 29, 2017, 9:22pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/input-control-theory-ict/5691 "2017-11-29T21:22:48Z")

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\[From Fred Nickols (2017.11.26.1430 ET)\] For reasons I will explain shortly, I have decided to use Input Control Theory instead of Perceptual Control Theory in conversations with those not yet informed about PCT. Now t…

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