# Phenomena **URL:** http://discourse.iapct.org/c/phenomena/13.md [Latest](http://discourse.iapct.org/latest.md) · [Categories](http://discourse.iapct.org/categories.md) · [Tags](http://discourse.iapct.org/tags.md) --- ## [About the Phenomena category](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/about-the-phenomena-category/21)
**Author:** [@forumControlSystem](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/forumControlSystem)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [September 8, 2019, 2:15pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/about-the-phenomena-category/21 "2019-09-08T14:15:13Z")
The Phenomena category is for discussion of examples of behavior. What we call behavior is a process of control. Control is an objective phenomenon that is seen when variable aspects of the world — controlled variables o… --- ## [Question About Feedback Functions](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/question-about-feedback-functions/16253)
**Author:** [@rsmarken](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/rsmarken)\ **Replies:** 140\ **Last updated:** [October 4, 2026, 5:52am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/question-about-feedback-functions/16253 "2026-10-04T05:52:49Z")
I seem to recall that feedback functions are considered to be particularly important in the study of collective control. They are even given a special name – ATENFELS? Could someone please give me a quick explanation of … --- ## [Are AI agents conscious?](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/are-ai-agents-conscious/16259)
**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\ **Replies:** 11\ **Last updated:** [September 19, 2026, 11:07pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/are-ai-agents-conscious/16259 "2026-09-19T23:07:54Z")
Ted Chiang (“a writer based in the Pacific Northwest … author of Stories of Your Life and Others and Exhalation”) has produced a critique in The Atlantic titled “No, AI is not conscious” (Dropbox). Chiang’s title says h… --- ## [Stigmergy: indirect coordination](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/stigmergy-indirect-coordination/16231)
**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [May 30, 2026, 11:39am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/stigmergy-indirect-coordination/16231 "2026-05-30T11:39:28Z")
The concept of stigmergy has currency in biology, computer science, and organizational design. When they talk about stigmergy, they’re talking about some forms of collective control. The OED says it’s from the French st… --- ## [I'm So Confused (About Virtual Control)](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/im-so-confused-about-virtual-control/16228)
**Author:** [@rsmarken](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/rsmarken)\ **Replies:** 26\ **Last updated:** [May 19, 2026, 9:26pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/im-so-confused-about-virtual-control/16228 "2026-05-19T21:26:26Z")
My confusion about virtual control results from watching Warren Mansell’s talk about “Reversing Coercion in the AI Age”. My confusion is based on two of his slides. The first one is here: I don’t see how all these s… --- ## [Conflict, stability, and a pile of rocks](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/conflict-stability-and-a-pile-of-rocks/16229)
**Author:** [@Kent](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Kent)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [May 19, 2026, 8:45pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/conflict-stability-and-a-pile-of-rocks/16229 "2026-05-19T20:45:53Z")
Continuing a thread, Something’s Happening Here This comment goes back to a previous thread on social stability with interesting comments by Rick, Bruce, and Brian. A post that Rick sent on February 3 started the thread… --- ## [Emotion Concepts and their Function in a Large Language Model](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/emotion-concepts-and-their-function-in-a-large-language-model/16223)
**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\ **Replies:** 7\ **Last updated:** [May 12, 2026, 1:47am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/emotion-concepts-and-their-function-in-a-large-language-model/16223 "2026-05-12T01:47:46Z")
Summary from a newsletter that my daughter sent me: Researchers studying Claude Sonnet 4.5 found internal patterns that mirror emotions like fear or joy. These patterns are not feelings, but they still shape how … --- ## [CVs maintained over a span of 5000 generations](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/cvs-maintained-over-a-span-of-5000-generations/16227)
**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [April 20, 2026, 1:45pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/cvs-maintained-over-a-span-of-5000-generations/16227 "2026-04-20T13:45:31Z")
Will, M., Sommer, C., Möller, G.H.D. et al. Specialised and persistent raw material procurement by humans in the Middle Pleistocene. Nat Commun 17 , 2702 (2026). DOI: 10.1038/s41467-026-70783-8 “Imagine a small group o… --- ## [Something's Happening Here](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/somethings-happening-here/16220)
**Author:** [@rsmarken](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/rsmarken)\ **Replies:** 23\ **Last updated:** [February 19, 2026, 5:59pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/somethings-happening-here/16220 "2026-02-19T17:59:29Z")
What it is ain’t exactly clear, so I’m hoping that the experts in collective control can help me out here. What seems to me going on in the USA at the present time is some serious social conflict. The conflict seems to b… --- ## [Song production in crickets](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/song-production-in-crickets/16219)
**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [January 28, 2026, 11:01pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/song-production-in-crickets/16219 "2026-01-28T23:01:21Z")
“song generation in crickets is a dynamic process involving an auditory feedback control loop” --- ## [🧠 New Paper Accepted: Consciousness — The Control of Quality (CoPoQ)](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/new-paper-accepted-consciousness-the-control-of-quality-copoq/16205)
**Author:** [@rupert](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/rupert)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [November 9, 2025, 5:56pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/new-paper-accepted-consciousness-the-control-of-quality-copoq/16205 "2025-11-09T17:56:09Z")
I’m pleased to share that my paper, “Consciousness: The Control of Quality (CoPoQ)”, has been accepted for publication in New Ideas in Psychology (Elsevier). The paper builds directly on the foundations of Perceptual Co… --- ## ['proxy failure' in academic publishing](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/proxy-failure-in-academic-publishing/16199)
**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [September 17, 2025, 2:08pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/proxy-failure-in-academic-publishing/16199 "2025-09-17T14:08:10Z")
Here is another case of ‘proxy failure’, and a deliberate counter-movement of collective control to fix it. Vogt, Thomas. (2025) “Systematic fraud uncovered in mathematics publications”. Phys . org. (Home / Other Scienc… --- ## [Cooperation without trust](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/cooperation-without-trust/16197)
**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [September 14, 2025, 3:21pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/cooperation-without-trust/16197 "2025-09-14T15:21:12Z")
How people who don’t have much reason to trust each other can figure out how to work together. Henry Farrell has been looking at this for a long time. This piece on how “doing bad things together creates bonds of trust”… --- ## [Emotions and corporal sensations](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/emotions-and-corporal-sensations/16194)
**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [September 4, 2025, 3:42pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/emotions-and-corporal-sensations/16194 "2025-09-04T15:42:03Z")
Consciously felt emotions are associated with topographically distinct combinations of bodily sensations, and this appears to be universal cross-culturally. L. Nummenmaa, E. Glerean, R. Hari, & J.K. Hietanen. (2013). Bo… --- ## [Doing Input with Output](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/doing-input-with-output/16175)
**Author:** [@rsmarken](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/rsmarken)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [May 19, 2025, 9:21pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/doing-input-with-output/16175 "2025-05-19T21:21:24Z")
Here’s a little video that demonstrates that behavior (what we are “doing”) is input (perception) done with output (action). It’s basically the same as Powers’ “hello” demo, where a person keeps a cursor on target using … --- ## [Failure of collective control](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/failure-of-collective-control/16166)
**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [May 5, 2025, 7:14pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/failure-of-collective-control/16166 "2025-05-05T19:14:20Z")
PCT is the theory of agency. Agents (living control systems) control their needs and desires (CVs) in an environment that almost always includes influences of other agents doing likewise. Those influences may be inconseq… --- ## [Analogy and the perceptual reality of concepts](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/analogy-and-the-perceptual-reality-of-concepts/16161)
**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [March 8, 2025, 3:35am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/analogy-and-the-perceptual-reality-of-concepts/16161 "2025-03-08T03:35:54Z")
This could almost be a topic in the Learning category, but prima facie it has more to do with subjective awareness of the nature of abstract or conceptual perceptions by mathematicians and physicists. It relates to the… --- ## [Make Xes with Y](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/make-xes-with-y/16157)
**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\ **Replies:** 5\ **Last updated:** [February 13, 2025, 9:11pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/make-xes-with-y/16157 "2025-02-13T21:11:23Z")
There’s one big technological problem with having these drones patrol the skies, Igor says. “You need to confirm that it’s not a bird,” he laughs. “You don’t want to make enemies with Mother Nature.” Justin Ling, The In… --- ## [Dunning-Kruger by proxy](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/dunning-kruger-by-proxy/16146)
**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [December 17, 2024, 5:33pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/dunning-kruger-by-proxy/16146 "2024-12-17T17:33:52Z")
This begins with the observation that incompetent people often lack the skill to recognize their incompetence and tend to believe they’re particularly good at the stuff they can’t do, in spite of the obvious evidence. Th… --- ## [Examples of large-scale collective control](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/examples-of-large-scale-collective-control/16123)
**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [September 24, 2024, 3:12pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/examples-of-large-scale-collective-control/16123 "2024-09-24T15:12:05Z")
An illustration of large-scale collective control in process: This evasion has become a major financial problem for the transit system, which depends on fares for revenue. The trend has also created a sense of chaos an… --- ## [Creating that which you fear](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/creating-that-which-you-fear/16117)
**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\ **Replies:** 4\ **Last updated:** [June 20, 2024, 5:22am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/creating-that-which-you-fear/16117 "2024-06-20T05:22:38Z")
On CSGnet years ago Bill recounted an experience of someone skiing down a slope, approaching a choice to go left or right around a tree, and running into the tree. The speculation was that they were controlling to move t… --- ## [Beliefs, factual and symbolic](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/beliefs-factual-and-symbolic/16110)
**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\ **Replies:** 60\ **Last updated:** [June 17, 2024, 5:54pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/beliefs-factual-and-symbolic/16110 "2024-06-17T17:54:50Z")
Dan Sperber found that the Dorze people in southern Ethiopia made assertions that they seemed both to believe and not to believe. For example, they said that “the leopard is a Christian animal who observes the fasts of t… --- ## [Platform for computer modeling of collective control](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/platform-for-computer-modeling-of-collective-control/16116)
**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [June 7, 2024, 3:20pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/platform-for-computer-modeling-of-collective-control/16116 "2024-06-07T15:20:46Z")
LLMs could provide a platform for modeling collective control. In a project presented at the same workshop at a major AI conference called ICLR, a group from MIT and Google got OpenAI’s ChatGPT and Google’s Bard to wor… --- ## [Sociovirology: collective control among viruses](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/sociovirology-collective-control-among-viruses/16115)
**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [June 7, 2024, 3:07pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/sociovirology-collective-control-among-viruses/16115 "2024-06-07T15:07:40Z")
Asher Leeks, Lisa M. Bono, Elizabeth A. Ampolini, Lucas S. Souza, Thomas Höfler, Courtney L. Mattson, Anna E. Dye, Samuel L. Díaz‐Muñoz, Open questions in the social lives of viruses, Journal of Evolutionary Biology , Vo… --- ## [Why Flying Insects Gather at Artificial Light](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/why-flying-insects-gather-at-artificial-light/16103)
**Author:** [@Abbott](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Abbott)\ **Replies:** 1\ **Last updated:** [February 14, 2024, 6:04am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/why-flying-insects-gather-at-artificial-light/16103 "2024-02-14T06:04:21Z")
Why do flying insects tend to circle around a lightbulb or candle? The most popular answer has been that they are trying to hold a constant heading by keeping a constant proportion of the light falling on each eye from a… --- ## [What is collective control?](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/what-is-collective-control/16087)
**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\ **Replies:** 43\ **Last updated:** [February 13, 2024, 1:39am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/what-is-collective-control/16087 "2024-02-13T01:39:54Z")
\[Moved here from Quorum sensing and collective control.\] The study of control begins with the observation of control as a phenomenon. A variable perceived by the investigator has a reference value to which it is return… --- ## [Re-thinking Labov's Pronunciation Drift Data](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/re-thinking-labovs-pronunciation-drift-data/16022)
**Author:** [@rsmarken](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/rsmarken)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [November 14, 2023, 4:18am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/re-thinking-labovs-pronunciation-drift-data/16022 "2023-11-14T04:18:38Z")
Continuing the discussion from Where Rick's Chapter 7 on "Social Control" goes off track where Bruce wrote: On re-reading Labov’s paper I detected evidence that his model of the results is essentially equivalent to min… --- ## [Quorum sensing and collective control](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/quorum-sensing-and-collective-control/16086)
**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\ **Replies:** 2\ **Last updated:** [October 27, 2023, 4:28pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/quorum-sensing-and-collective-control/16086 "2023-10-27T16:28:29Z")
‘Quorum sensing’ in populations of microorganisms is a collective control phenomenon that may account for the emergence of multi-celled orders of organisms from populations of single-celled microorganisms. “Quorum sens… --- ## [The Dead Zone in Conflicts](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/the-dead-zone-in-conflicts/16043)
**Author:** [@rsmarken](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/rsmarken)\ **Replies:** 17\ **Last updated:** [October 20, 2023, 9:58pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/the-dead-zone-in-conflicts/16043 "2023-10-20T21:58:31Z")
Continuing the discussion from Collective control as a real-world phenomenon: I’m starting a new topic on the phenomenon of conflict. Conflict is relevant to PCT (and vice versa) because it is an intrinsically control p… --- ## [What is an itch?](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/what-is-an-itch/16085)
**Author:** [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\ **Replies:** 0\ **Last updated:** [October 17, 2023, 5:16pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/what-is-an-itch/16085 "2023-10-17T17:16:50Z")
Postulate: The perception that we call an ‘itch’ is the first part of the perception of relieving it. We relieve it by scratching or sometimes by pressure. When one undertakes to practice meditation, itches and their … [Next page](http://discourse.iapct.org/c/phenomena/13.md?page=1)