Accident Risk

[From Fred Nickols (990330.1820)]--

Rick Marken (990329.1530)]

Jeffrey B. Vancouver (29 Mar 1999 17:25:59) --

Nonetheless, they are talking about a hypothesized CV!

A CV is something that can be perceived by both the behaving
system and the observer of the behavior system.

Hmm. How can that be? If external reality is known to us only through our
perceptions and if our perceptions (and reference conditions, and etc, etc)
are unique to us as individuals, how can the behaving system and the
observer of the behavior system perceive the same thing or whatever being
referred to as "CV"?

Regards,

Fred Nickols
Distance Consulting
http://home.att.net/~nickols/distance.htm
nickols@worldnet.att.net
(609) 490-0095

[From Rick Marken (990330.1800)]

Me:

A CV is something that can be perceived by both the behaving
system and the observer of the behavior system.

Fred Nickols (990330.1820)

Hmm. How can that be?

It just seems to be that way. Maybe it's because God wanted
people to be able to do science and disprove his existence;-)

If external reality is known to us only through our perceptions
and if our perceptions (and reference conditions, and etc, etc)
are unique to us as individuals

What do you mean by "unique". It seems like people's perceptions
are not unique at all. For example, everyone with normal vision
sees various wavelengths (and combinations thereof) in the same way;
at least, they act as though they are having the same perception.
It may be that your experience of "red", for example, is what I
experience as "green". But we both act as though the perception
that results from light waves of about 660 nm is the same for
both of us.

how can the behaving system and the observer of the behavior
system perceive the same thing or whatever being referred to
as "CV"?

Think about a tracking task. The CV is most definitely the
position of the cursor. You can see it (and control it); I
can see it; and a machine (the computer) can automatically
measure it. CVs, like any scientific observation, are perfectly
objective (a perception that many observers can agree on).

Best

Rick

ยทยทยท

--
Richard S. Marken Phone or Fax: 310 474-0313
Life Learning Associates e-mail: rmarken@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~rmarken/

[From Bill Powers (990331.0033 MST)]

Fred Nickols (990330.1820)--

Hmm. How can that be? If external reality is known to us only through our
perceptions and if our perceptions (and reference conditions, and etc, etc)
are unique to us as individuals, how can the behaving system and the
observer of the behavior system perceive the same thing or whatever being
referred to as "CV"?

You are quite correct. The behaving system controls a perception, but the
observer can see only his own view of the environment affected by the
actions of the behaving system. He can't see the behaving system's perception.

"The CV" is the _observer's_ perception. However, if the observer happens
to be using a perceptual system closely similar to that in the behaving
system, it is possible for the observer's perception to covary with the
behaving system's perception. Then the observer will see that the CV is
protected from disturbances by the actions of the behaving system, and the
CV will pass all the parts of the Test.

If the behaving system is another person, it's possible for the observer to
communicate with that person, which helps a lot in establishing whether a
guess at the CV is reasonably close. But play the Coin Game. The other
person may be maintaining the coins in a 'Z' pattern, and the experimenter
may conclude that the pattern is an 'N' on its side. Who is right?

Best,

Bill P.