An interesting title

[From Oded Maler (980627)]

http://mitpress.mit.edu/book-home.tcl?isbn=0262011654

--Oded

[From Rick Marken (980630.0830)]

The server is apparently down; what better time to reply (at
long last) to Oded Maler (980627) who says that there is an
interesting title at:

http://mitpress.mit.edu/book-home.tcl?isbn=0262011654

What's interesting about it, Oded? Is it the fact that a book about
behavior that was published in May, 1998 still has not a word in it
about the fact that behavior is the control _of_ perception? Is
it the fact that roboticists are still talking about "Assembling
Behaviors" (as though behavior were the "product" of an organic
assembly line) and "Motor Schemas" (as though behavior were based
on specifications -- schemas -- for motor output rather than
perceptual input).

Based on my perusal of the Table of Contents for the book, I'd say
that (for me) it would be far more depressing than interesting. I
think I'll save my money for Bill's new book.

Best

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken Phone or Fax: 310 474-0313
Life Learning Associates e-mail: rmarken@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~rmarken

[From Oded Maler (980701)]

Rick Marken (980630.0830)]

The server is apparently down; what better time to reply (at
long last) to Oded Maler (980627) who says that there is an
interesting title at:

> http://mitpress.mit.edu/book-home.tcl?isbn=0262011654

What's interesting about it, Oded?

First, its potential to draw unexpected and surprising reactions
from certain persons...

Is it the fact that a book about
behavior that was published in May, 1998 still has not a word in it
about the fact that behavior is the control _of_ perception? Is
it the fact that roboticists are still talking about "Assembling
Behaviors" (as though behavior were the "product" of an organic
assembly line) and "Motor Schemas" (as though behavior were based
on specifications -- schemas -- for motor output rather than
perceptual input).

It's a book about robotics, not psychology. Roboticians do assemble
behaviors. I hope that after two months of arguing about the "real" meaning
of a word, you will not start arguing that the "behaviors" that roboticians
pretend to assemble are not really _behaviors_ or something like that. They
build mechanisms with sensor-effector feed-back loops, and these mechanisms
behave. A "schema" may turn out to be a certain architecture of a control
system in one of those levels you never explored, etc.

Based on my perusal of the Table of Contents for the book, I'd say
that (for me) it would be far more depressing than interesting. I
think I'll save my money for Bill's new book.

Btw, I am not sure you are so depressed when you encounter yet another one
of those non-illuminated pseudo-scientists, maybe the contrary..

Disclaimer: I have not read that book.

--Oded

[From Rick Marken (980701.0915)]

Oded Maler (980701) --

It's a book about robotics, not psychology.

But the conceit of the book is that the robotics is based on
"relevant biological and psychological models of behavior". I
presume that that is why it is called "Behavior-Based Robotics"
and why the forward is written by neuroscientist Michael Arbib.

You posted to CSGNet saying it was "an interesting title" so I
presumed this was because you saw some indication that one of
the "psychological models of behavior" used in the book viewed
behavior as the control of perception.

I replied to your post by pointing out that I saw no indication
of any awareness on the part of the author of any psychological
models that view behavior as the control of perception. Now you
tell me that this point is irrelevant: it's a book about robotics,
not psychology. So now I have no idea why you thought this book
would be interesting to people who see behavior as the control
of perception.

Best

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken Phone or Fax: 310 474-0313
Life Learning Associates e-mail: rmarken@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~rmarken