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[From Rick Marken (930619.1400)]

Hans Blom (930619) --

I have been a control engineer for so long (25 years) that I
could not miss starting to question its basic assumptions.

Given all that experience and questioning of basic assumptions,
it seems like you're just the one to set us straight on the
"information in perception" brohaha. Given what must be your
deep knowledge of control theory and its basic assumptions,
could you just tell us -- does the sensory input to a control
system contain information regarding how "plant" outputs should
vary in order to control the sensed variable? While you're at it,
could you also tell us what variable is controlled by a control

If you are lucky, you're answers could get you a section in the
BBS "misconceptions about control theory" paper.

Bill's models is of unacceptably limited, so other control approaches
go further.

I feel the uncontrolled side effects of waving hands.

It is simply not true that humans ARE
control systems; it is true, however, that some human qualities can be
MODELLED as control systems. The map is not the area.

I think you can now rest assured that you will have a section in the
BBS "misconceptions about control theory" paper.

We are NOT in violent AGREEMENT now. See how difficult these things

So? It's difficult, sometimes, to tell whether a variable is controlled
or not, especially when 1) you have not built the control system your-
self and 2) the variable is the result of the controlling done by
multiple control systems. What's your point? Is the fact that it
may sometimes be difficult to determine whether or not a variable is
under control (and it's probably just more difficult to determine it
in the armchair than in the lab) some kind of indictment of the PCT
model of living systems? You got something better? I see you and raise