Character Acting (was A Reflection on the Hierarchy)

Kenneth_Kitzke_Value · September 7, 1999, 3:00pm

from [Kenny Kitzke (990907.1100)]

<Also, I would suggest that instead of calling your proposed
perceptual variable "self-concept" we call it "character" to
refer to "the complex of mental and ethical traits [system
concepts in PCT] marking and often individualizing a person"
(Webster's Collegiate).>

I have no problem saying that one perceptual variable we control at the
Twelfth Level is "character." For me, character is a variable that we all
can understand and experience and is part of our human spirit. IOW, best I
am aware, no one is claiming that apes control for this high level variable.
It certainly seems that there are character like reference perceptions at
both the principle and system level. Do you agree?

But, when we consider the whole enchilada of "character," and try to achieve
our desired reference for it, it seems plausible that there must be a higher
level than either of those to originate the reference we have. Is this
consistent with your perception of one's "character" perception?

I would propose that "self concept" is composed of many Twelfth Level matters
of the heart like ones perceived "character" of themselves. When we hear
"I'm Popeye the Sailor Man!" it sets up a hierarchy of body, mind and spirit
perceptions about the famous spinach eater. And, I think it is just as true
for real human beings, like Rick Marken and Kenny Kitzke, as cartoon
characters. And, it makes the science of PCT much more personal and relevant
to issues that confront us daily, like our character.

Your points about actors portraying characters who are not themselves and how
they do that seems totally logical to me. Excellent. Yep, indeed a higher
level. I told you that once you see the matters of the heart, you will be
forced to conclude there are even higher levels, which you could not even
conceive in your last post.

But, the only reason that cranium of yours is throbbing is because you are
using it in new ways, perhaps creating new control loops. Is it the same as
reorganizing? I am not too sure. It may be kind of like when you do a new
physical activity (say bowling for the first time) you find out you have
muscle aches the next day that you never experienced quite the same way
before. Its just part of growing and living and experiencing things as a
human you always could have but perhaps never tried.

R_Marken · September 7, 1999, 5:33am

[From Rick Marken (990906.2130)]

Kenny Kitzke (990906.1800)--

You're not just mocking me too

No, I'm not.

You can conceive of a "self-concept" level which I identified
as a clearly higher level?

Yes.

May what I wrote to you possibly be considered an advancement
to the scientific theory of human behavior called PCT

I think it's a _start_ at the scientific advancement of PCT.
I will count it as an actual advancement once you have done
some testing to see if there is any evidence that people
control a perception that is a function of a particular set
of system concepts. I would count subjective evidence
(descriptions of your own experience of this perception) as
well as objective tests. Remember, subjective evidence of a
perceptual variable that is higher than system concepts would
be evidence that the perception exists in experience only if
system concept perceptions are present.

Kenny:

Now, I'll propose another even higher level perceptual variable.
As you look down on yourself, as you perceive the sum total of
your system variable perceptions (which are unlike any of the
other 6 billion living humans), could you compare what you
perceive with what you want to perceive about yourself?

Me:

Yes. Absolutely!

Kenny:

This is incredible! An even higher level than self-concept?

Actually, I thought you were still talking about self-concepts.
You said "as you perceive the sum total of your system variable
perceptions" which I understood to mean the self-concept perception.
Then you said "could you compare what you perceive ..." which I
thought still meant the self-concept perception "...with what you
want to perceive about yourself?" which I thought was the reference
for self-concept. So I thought you were asking "do you believe you
can compare a self concept perception to a reference for such a
perception" and that's why I said "Yes, absolutely". I believe
that there could be a type of perception that is even higher than
your self-concept but I have no idea what that could be. Why don't
we just work the possibility of a self-concept perception for
the nonce.

Also, I would suggest that instead of calling your proposed
perceptual variable "self-concept" we call it "character" to
refer to "the complex of mental and ethical traits [system
concepts in PCT] marking and often individualizing a person"
(Webster's Collegiate). I suggest this because I believe I can
just as easily have what you call a "self-concept" perception
of myself as of others who I know well. Also, when an actor
portrays a character I think what they are trying to do (if
they are really good) is try to control for the system concepts
that the character controls for; to do this, the actor would have
to be able to perceive themselves having the same "character"
perception as they perceive in the character they play. In order
to perceive themselves as this "character" they would have to set
the appropriate references for system concept perceptions (and on
down the hierarchy). An actor _becomes_ the character when s/he
is able to set the appropriate system concept reference; in order
to control for these system concept perceptions, the actor has
to continuously vary all the lower level references in his/her
own perceptual control hierarchy appropriately (as required by
disturbances). So a good actor really does _become_ the character
s/he plays. Maybe that's what a good actor is; a person who can
perceive (and control) in terms of different character type
perceptual variables.

Of course, this suggests that there is an even higher level of
perception and control than charater; a level of control systems
that can vary the reference for the charater type perceptual
variable as the means of controlling its perceptual variable. But
I feel like I am really backing up against the inside of my
cranium now.

Best

Rick

···

---
Richard S. Marken Phone or Fax: 310 474-0313
Life Learning Associates e-mail: rmarken@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~rmarken/