Conventional Psychology Experiments and the "Behavioral Illusion"

[From Bruce Abbott (2014.01.12.1930 EST)]

Rick Marken (2014.01.12.01530) --

Bruce Abbott (2014.01.12.1755 EST)

RM: Great. Then you agree that you can't learn about the characteristics

of living control systems by manipulating disturbances (independent
variables) and observing their relationship to outputs (dependent
variables), as in conventional psychology experiments, right? In other
words, you know (despite the apparent implications of your analysis) that
conventional experimental psychology is built on an illusion -- the
behavioral illusion, right?

BA: I agree that disturbances can be independent variables and output the

dependent variables, and that the functions observed in this particular
IV-DV relationship reflect mainly the characteristics of the environmental
feedback function and therefore tell you very little about the organism.
(The idea that they do is called the "behavioral illusion.") But I disagree
with your assertion that "conventional experimental psychology is built on
an illusion," because there are plenty of experiments in psychology that do
not manipulate disturbances to control systems as the independent variable
and observe the resulting behavior as the dependent variable.

RM: Could you name a couple?

Ah, where to start? How about psychophysics? I manipulate the brightness of
a light and ask you to indicate when you first perceive it. This is how the
"dark adaptation curve" was derived, whose cusp suggested that there might
be two species of photoreceptors in the retina -- which we now call rods and
cones. Or trans-magnetic stimulation studies, demonstrating, for example,
that applying a strong magnetic field near the margins of the occipital
cortex can cause the colors perceived in one half of the visual field to
disappear during the stimulation (which disables the functions being carried
out in that part of the cortex). Or studies demonstrating how it is
possible to "implant" a false memory. Or studies indicating the heuristic
"shortcuts" people use when dealing with situations where carrying out the
required operations for an accurate analysis would be too difficult or
time-consuming. I could go on . . .

Bruce

[From Rick Marken (2014.01.12.2130)]

···

Bruce Abbott (2014.01.12.1930 EST)–

BA: But I disagree with your assertion that “conventional experimental psychology is built on an illusion,” because there are plenty of experiments in psychology that do not manipulate disturbances to control systems as the independent variable and observe the resulting behavior as the dependent variable.

RM: Could you name a couple?

BA: How about psychophysics? I manipulate the brightness of

a light and ask you to indicate when you first perceive it.

RM: The independent variable is the brightness (it’s manipulated independent of the subject), The behavior that is the dependent variable is the indication (yes or no) regarding whether it is perceived. The subject is asked to control for a relationship between their yes/no indication and the perception of the light. The independent variable is, thus, a disturbance to a controlled variable (if it weren’t the subject would probably say nothing on each trial). The dependent variable corrects for the effect of that disturbance. So this is not an example of an experiment where the experimenter “does not manipulate disturbances to control systems as the independent variable and observe the resulting behavior as the dependent variable”.

BA: Or trans-magnetic stimulation studies, demonstrating, for example,

that applying a strong magnetic field near the margins of the occipital

cortex can cause the colors perceived in one half of the visual field to

disappear during the stimulation (which disables the functions being carried

out in that part of the cortex).

RM: This is similar to the threshold experiment. The independent variable is the magnetic field; the behavior (reporting whether or not the color appears) is the dependent variable. The subject is asked to control for correctly saying what color (or no color) is seen on each trial. So the magnetic field is a disturbance to that variable – affecting the color (or lack thereof) that is seen – and the subject’s response compensates for that disturbance (by saying color or no color when asked). So again this is not an example of an experiment where the experimenter “does not manipulate disturbances to control systems as the independent variable and observe the resulting behavior as the dependent variable”.

BA: Or studies demonstrating how it is possible to “implant” a false memory.

RM: You would have to explain how the study was done. I can’t tell from this description.

BA: Or studies indicating the heuristic

“shortcuts” people use when dealing with situations where carrying out the

required operations for an accurate analysis would be too difficult or

time-consuming.

RM: Again, you would have to explain how these studies were done. But assuming that the independent variable in these studies was the difficulty of the problem to be analyzed (solved?) and the DV some measure of the heuristics (how many, perhaps) that were used to solve them, then again you have an experiment where the experimenter manipulates disturbances (difficulty level) to a controlled variable (state of the problem with a reference of “solved”) and observes the resulting behavior (heuristics) as the dependent variable.

BA: I could go on . . .

RM: Please do. But I’ll give you a hint: Virtually any experiment where subjects are given instructions, if they are human or subjected to “establishing operations”, like being starved, if they are non-human, is one where the experimenter manipulates disturbances to a controlled variable as the independent variable and observes the resulting behavior as the dependent variable. It’s all purposeful behavior. I once saw a book on operant conditioning of a dead person; I think if you can find that book you will find a lot of examples of experiments where the experimenter “does not manipulate disturbances to controlled variables as the independent variable and observe the resulting behavior as the dependent variable”. Because dead people don’t control.

Best

Rick

–
Richard S. Marken PhD
www.mindreadings.com
The only thing that will redeem mankind is cooperation.
– Bertrand Russell

[From Bruce Abbott (2014.01.13.0945 EST)]

Rick Marken (2014.01.12.2130) –

Bruce Abbott (2014.01.12.1930 EST)

BA: But I disagree with your assertion that “conventional experimental psychology is built on an illusion,” because there are plenty of experiments in psychology that do not manipulate disturbances to control systems as the independent variable and observe the resulting behavior as the dependent variable.

RM: Could you name a couple?

BA: How about psychophysics? I manipulate the brightness of
a light and ask you to indicate when you first perceive it.

RM: The independent variable is the brightness (it’s manipulated independent of the subject), The behavior that is the dependent variable is the indication (yes or no) regarding whether it is perceived. The subject is asked to control for a relationship between their yes/no indication and the perception of the light. The independent variable is, thus, a disturbance to a controlled variable (if it weren’t the subject would probably say nothing on each trial). The dependent variable corrects for the effect of that disturbance. So this is not an example of an experiment where the experimenter “does not manipulate disturbances to control systems as the independent variable and observe the resulting behavior as the dependent variable”.

If PCT is correct, then any experiment in which we ask the participant to do something while we manipulate an independent variable (such as the brightness of a light) will involve a control system. The question is not whether there is a control system at work, but whether the experiment’s data tell us only about the environment while the experimenter believes that it is providing information about the participant – the “behavioral illusion.”

So, let’s see if that’s true in the case of determining the “dark adaptation curve.”

To make the experiment easier to understand in control terms, we’ll give the participant a knob to turn. By turning the knob, the participant varies the intensity of a light-source. The light is initially off and the participant is told to turn the knob until she can just barely perceive that the light is on. She is to do so immediately after hearing a brief tone.

Now the experiment begins. The experimenter turns off the room lights, plunging the experimental cubical into total darkness. The tone sounds immediately, and the participant quickly adjusts the knob until she just barely perceives the light. The experimenter records the intensity of that light, then turns the room light back on, rotates the knob back to the “off” position, and waits for the participant to readjust to the light. This procedure is then repeated, this time after having the participant wait for one minute in darkness before the experimenter sounds the tone. This process continues until the threshold for detecting the light has been recorded for time-in-darkness ranging from 0 minutes to 50 minutes. Here’s the resulting curve:

image00321.jpg

The question is, does this curve tell us something about the participant’s visual system, or is it an example of the “behavioral illusion,” telling us only about a feature of the environment?

According to you, Rick, it just shows us the inverse of the environmental function – roughly speaking, the inverse of relation between the participant’s setting of the knob and the intensity of the light that the participant is trying to detect. But that is a smooth curve, with no inflections in it. The inverse of that function does not have an inflection point in it. The curve of our data points does. It can’t be the inverse of the knob-light intensity function.

So let’s analyze the experiment in terms of control theory. We’ve instructed our participant to adjust the knob until she just barely perceives the light. In PCT terms, we’re asked her to set a reference for light intensity at the threshold value for perceiving the light. If she follows our instructions, then she will turn the knob until the perceived intensity of the light closely matches that threshold value. By having her repeat this adjustment after varying delays since the room lights were doused, we determine how that threshold value changes over time in darkness. The resulting data, plotted as above, show that this threshold value decreases (the participant is becoming more and more sensitive to light as time elapses). In addition, that decrease in threshold initially follows an approximately exponential function out to about 10 minutes, where it almost levels off at a still rather high threshold value. At that point something unexpected happens: the curve starts to fall again, and over the next 40 minutes falls (again following an approximately exponential function) until it levels off at a very low threshold value.

These changes in threshold over time have been traced to changes in the sensitivity to light of two varieties of photoreceptors in the participant’s retina – cones and rods. The cone cells provide the basis for color vision but do not increase their sensitivity to light much in darkness. (This is the reason why colors fade away as darkness descends.) Immediately after lights-out, the cones are more sensitive to light than the rods, so their sensitivity determines the first part of the curve. The rod cells do not provide color discrimination but their sensitivity increases greatly in darkness. (They provide us with night vision.) At about the 10-minute mark their sensitivity has increased enough to match that of the cones at that same point in time; after that the rods are more sensitive and determine the remainder of the curve.

Does the experiment engage the participant’s control systems? Yes. Do the data tell us nothing about the participant’s visual system, but only about the relationship between the knob setting and the intensity of the light? Hardly.

BA: Or trans-magnetic stimulation studies, demonstrating, for example,
that applying a strong magnetic field near the margins of the occipital
cortex can cause the colors perceived in one half of the visual field to
disappear during the stimulation (which disables the functions being carried
out in that part of the cortex).

RM: This is similar to the threshold experiment. The independent variable is the magnetic field; the behavior (reporting whether or not the color appears) is the dependent variable. The subject is asked to control for correctly saying what color (or no color) is seen on each trial. So the magnetic field is a disturbance to that variable – affecting the color (or lack thereof) that is seen – and the subject’s response compensates for that disturbance (by saying color or no color when asked). So again this is not an example of an experiment where the experimenter “does not manipulate disturbances to control systems as the independent variable and observe the resulting behavior as the dependent variable”.

You have this way of changing the ground of the argument without really saying so – a bit of the magician’s misdirection of attention. Again, the point is not to find a conventional psychological experiment that does not involve a control system, but rather to provide examples of conventional psychological experiments in which the data tell us something useful about the participant rather about the environmental feedback function.

Trans-magnetic stimulation temporarily “paralyzes” the cortical neural networks in the vicinity of a rapidly alternating magnetic field. If you place the magnet near the rear of the head (where the occipital lobe of the cortex is found), at just the right location, you can disrupt the processing being carried on by the neurons there. The participant sees the color disappear from one half of the visual field of both eyes. If the right cortical hemisphere is being subjected to the trans-magnetic stimulation, the color will disappear from the left half of the visual field of both eyes. This demonstrates two things: (1) the right hemisphere processes the data from the left half of the retina of both eyes, and (2) the area stimulated has something very important to do with the processing of color in those halves of the visual scene. When that processing is disrupted, our conscious perception of color is lost for that portion of the visual field.

Again, we discover something important about the participant from this study. The data do not reflect the “behavioral illusion.”

BA: Or studies demonstrating how it is possible to “implant” a false memory.

RM: You would have to explain how the study was done. I can’t tell from this description.

BA: It doesn’t matter, the same kind of analysis applies as in the previous examples.

BA: Or studies indicating the heuristic
“shortcuts” people use when dealing with situations where carrying out the
required operations for an accurate analysis would be too difficult or
time-consuming.

RM: Again, you would have to explain how these studies were done. But assuming that the independent variable in these studies was the difficulty of the problem to be analyzed (solved?) and the DV some measure of the heuristics (how many, perhaps) that were used to solve them, then again you have an experiment where the experimenter manipulates disturbances (difficulty level) to a controlled variable (state of the problem with a reference of “solved”) and observes the resulting behavior (heuristics) as the dependent variable.

BA: I could go on . . .

RM: Please do. But I’ll give you a hint: Virtually any experiment where subjects are given instructions, if they are human or subjected to “establishing operations”, like being starved, if they are non-human, is one where the experimenter manipulates disturbances to a controlled variable as the independent variable and observes the resulting behavior as the dependent variable. It’s all purposeful behavior. I once saw a book on operant conditioning of a dead person; I think if you can find that book you will find a lot of examples of experiments where the experimenter “does not manipulate disturbances to controlled variables as the independent variable and observe the resulting behavior as the dependent variable”. Because dead people don’t control.

Again, the argument was not whether participants in conventional psychology experiments control (they do!), but whether the data from such experiments necessarily fool the experimenter into thinking she is learning something about the participant, when in fact she is only discovering the inverse of the environmental feedback function and is thus falling prey to the “behavioral illusion.” No doubt there are some experiments in which that happened, but I’ve provided a small sample of typical experiments in which the data do inform us about the participant and not the feedback function.

Bruce

[From Rick Marken (2014.01.13.1730)]

Bruce Abbott (2014.01.13.0945 EST)

BA: If PCT is correct, then any experiment in which we ask the participant to do something while we manipulate an independent variable (such as the brightness of a light) will involve a control system.

RM: Yes, that's my only point (and, of course, the point Bill was
making in the Psychological Review "Spadework at the Foundations of
Scientific Psychology" paper.

BA: The question is not whether there is a control system at work, but whether the experiment�s data tell us only about the environment while the experimenter believes that it is providing information about the participant � the �behavioral illusion.�

RM: I suppose that's the way we have to go about it if we want to
convince psychologists that they should go about their business in a
different way. I think the response of most psychologists to the
"Spadework" paper was much like yours and Martin's, which seems to be
this: Powers' concept of a behavioral illusion is interesting but
probably doesn't apply to very much research, certainly not to the
research I care about; so psychological researchers should just keep
doing research as they've always done it until they are shown that
their results are illusory (per the behavioral illusion).

I obviously took something quite different from the "Spadework" paper.
I saw that paper as an argument for the fact that living organisms are
closed loop control systems and that that should be kept in mind when
we approach the study of the behavior of organisms. In particular what
we should keep in mind is that the behavior of control systems is
organized around the control of perceptual variables and that apparent
causal relationships between independent and dependent variables that
are observed in many experiments are likely to be actions aimed at
protecting controlled perceptions from the disturbing effects of the
independent variable. So research on control systems should be aimed
at finding out what perceptual variables organisms control and how
they control them. In other words, what is needed is a whole new
approach to the science of psychology, one based on an understanding
of that organisms control and are, therefore, control systems.

So after reading the "Spadework" paper my first thought was _not_ to
try to figure out which psychology experiments produced illusory
results and which didn't. I knew that all of these experiments were
done under the assumption that organisms are lineal causal systems
rather than control systems (to say nothing of the fact that the
results of these experiments are typically averages over many
subjects). So after reading the paper (and understanding it, so we're
talking several years after I first read it) my aim was to figure out
how to go about studying behavior in a whole new way -- in the way
described in the "Spadework" paper; doing this research based on
understanding that organisms arecontrol systems.

But most others who read the "Spadework" paper, even if they thought
there was something to it, obviously didn't react to it as I did. They
reacted to it exactly as Bill predicted they would in the "Spadework"
paper itself (see the second paragraph on p. 164 of LCS I). What Bill
was hoping would happen was a true paradigm shift. And as he notes in
"Spadework, such shifts only result "from bypassing altogether old
conceptual puzzles that some people insist for a long time still need
solving". The experiments done under the old lineal causal paradigm
are aimed at solving puzzles that are irrelevant in the context of the
new control paradigm.

All this is just to acknowledge that I'm not going to be very good at
showing where the behavioral illusion might lie in the research you've
presented. All of that research was done to answer questions in the
context of a different paradigm. Some of the research might be useful
in the new paradigm and some might not; but I'm not that interested in
going through the entire literature of psychological research and
saying "this is good" and "that suffers from the behavioral illusion".
My goal is just to start scientific psychology off in a new direction
-- the direction described in the "Spadework" paper. I think I get so
upset with you and Martin because I would really like some company
over here in the new paradigm -- especially from smart research
oriented people like you guys-- and I'm not getting it. So I'm sorry
if I've been kind of angry in recent exchanges with you guys.

But I recognize that people living in the old paradigm are offended
and defensive when I say that the their research may be subject to the
behavioral illusion. I don't know if pointing out which examples of
research done in the context of the old paradigm are "good" and which
are "bad" from a control theory perspective will encourage those
currently living in the old paradigm to move into the new one. But I
suppose I have to deal with these challenges so here is my reply to
your excellent descriptions of the experiment aimed at determining the
dark adaptation curve:

BA: To make the experiment easier to understand in control terms, we�ll give the participant a knob to turn. By turning the knob, the participant varies the intensity of a light-source. The light is initially off and the participant is told to turn the knob until she can just barely perceive that the light is on. She is to do so immediately after hearing a brief tone...

The question is, does this curve tell us something about the participant�s visual system, or is it an example of the �behavioral illusion,� telling us only about a feature of the environment?

RM: In this case I would say these results do tell us about the
organism. That because what is plotted is not a response to an
independent variable but, rather, the value of what is probably a
controlled quantity (light intensity) that corresponds to a perception
of brightness that matches a reference of "just detectable". The time
in the dark is a disturbance to the perception that is compensated for
by the subject adjusting the light level down (as time passes) to keep
the perception of brightness at "just detectable". The break in the
plot of the controlled quantity (light intensity) over time in the
dark does suggested that the disturbance is having it's effect --
adaptation -- via two different processes.

BA: So let�s analyze the experiment in terms of control theory.

RM: I think I just did.

BA: We�ve instructed our participant to adjust the knob until she just barely perceives the light. In PCT terms, we�re asked her to set a reference for light intensity at the threshold value for perceiving the light. If she follows our instructions, then she will turn the knob until the perceived intensity of the light closely matches that threshold value. By having her repeat this adjustment after varying delays since the room lights were doused, we determine how that threshold value changes over time in darkness. The resulting data, plotted as above, show that this threshold value decreases (the participant is becoming more and more sensitive to light as time elapses).

RM: The only thing I would add is that the light intensity is a
controlled quantity (the light brightness is a controlled perception);
so what is being plotted is the value of a controlled quantity that
presumably corresponds to the same "threshold" perception of
brightness after increasing time in the dark.

BA: Trans-magnetic stimulation temporarily �paralyzes� the cortical neural networks in the vicinity of a rapidly alternating magnetic field... Again, we discover something important about the participant from this study. The data do not reflect the �behavioral illusion.�

RM: I agree. There is no behavioral illusion; whether we have
discovered something important or not depends on which paradigm your
working in. It's an interesting

BA: Again, the argument was not whether participants in conventional psychology experiments control (they do!), but whether the data from such experiments necessarily fool the experimenter into thinking she is learning something about the participant, when in fact she is only discovering the inverse of the environmental feedback function and is thus falling prey to the �behavioral illusion.� No doubt there are some experiments in which that happened, but I�ve provided a small sample of typical experiments in which the data do inform us about the participant and not the feedback function.

RM: Thanks to this conversation I am convinced that the "behavioral
illusion" approach to arguing for a new approach to doing scientific
psychology is not a good one (I think Bill eventually came to that
conclusion as well). I think the best way to argue for a new approach
to scientific psychology is in terms of paradigm shift. In the old
paradigm the problem to be solved by research is "what is the cause";
in the new paradigm the problem to be solved by research is "what is
controlled". I think it can be framed as simply as that. So if a piece
of research doesn't address the question of "what is controlled" by
organisms then it's not relevant to the new control paradigm.

Best regards

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken PhD
www.mindreadings.com

The only thing that will redeem mankind is cooperation.
                                                   -- Bertrand Russell

[From Matti Kolu (2014.01.14.0515 CET)]

Rick Marken (2014.01.13.1730)--

RM: Thanks to this conversation I am convinced that the "behavioral
illusion" approach to arguing for a new approach to doing scientific
psychology is not a good one (I think Bill eventually came to that
conclusion as well).

I believe he went further than that:

"My gravest mistake was to focus on psychology as the place to
introduce this theory."
-- Bill Powers, 2003.12.05.0820 MST

RM--

I think the best way to argue for a new approach
to scientific psychology is in terms of paradigm shift. In the old
paradigm the problem to be solved by research is "what is the cause";
in the new paradigm the problem to be solved by research is "what is
controlled". I think it can be framed as simply as that. So if a piece
of research doesn't address the question of "what is controlled" by
organisms then it's not relevant to the new control paradigm.

The framing makes sense. But did heliocentrism and Newtonian mechanics
revolutionize astrology?

Matti

1 Like

[From Rick Marken (2014.01.16.1350)

···

Matti Kolu (2014.01.14.0515 CET)–

RM: Thanks to this conversation I am convinced that the "behavioral

illusion" approach to arguing for a new approach to doing scientific

psychology is not a good one (I think Bill eventually came to that

conclusion as well).

MK: I believe he went further than that:

"My gravest mistake was to focus on psychology as the place to

introduce this theory."

– Bill Powers, 2003.12.05.0820 MST

RM: Sorry I didn’t reply to this sooner. This is a very interesting quote. But I think it’s just Bill at his most frustrated. I think psychology was the natural place to introduce the theory. It’s a theory of behavior, after all, and that’s what psychologists presumably want to understand (and, of course, the mind that is presumably responsible for that behavior). Behavior is right up front in the title of his opus magnus “Behavior: The Control of Perception”. And where else would he have focused, anyway? The “harder” sciences, perhaps? His ideas received the same “welcome” from these “harder sciences” – cybernetics, robotics and even control engineering – as it did from psychology. Maybe even worse. I know this because I attended several cybernetics conferences with Bill where his ideas were pretty much trashed by leading cyberneticists. I know that Bill had some rough interactions with leading roboticists (such as Rodney Brooks) and in the early days of CSGNet Bill had some very frustrating interactions with a couple of control engineers. I think the problem for PCT is not the audience but the message. The basic message of PCT is that the science of life has to be different than the science of non-life because the essence of life is purpose (control) while the essence of non-life is purposelessness (cause - effect). And that makes any scientific (or would-be scientific) audience very uncomfortable (and defensive and pretty nasty) because they have been trained to think that purpose is an illusion (as it is when dealing with non-life) that can be accounted for by the laws of cause and effect.

RM- I think the best way to argue for a new approach

to scientific psychology is in terms of paradigm shift…

MK: The framing makes sense. But did heliocentrism and Newtonian mechanics

revolutionize astrology?

RM: I see your point. So what today is the behavioral model equivalent of the Ptolemaic model of the solar system and the Aristotelian model of mechanics that Newton overthrew? I think it’s the causal model of behavior (such as the general linear model of statistics) that is at the heart of all research in all the behavioral/social sciences. But I’d be very interested in hearing your ideas about this.

Best regards

Rick

–
Richard S. Marken PhD
www.mindreadings.com
The only thing that will redeem mankind is cooperation.

                                               -- Bertrand Russell