[From Bill Powers (950801.1710 MDT)]
Bruce Abbott (950801.1715 EST) --
This gets more fascinating by the minute.
The average response rate using the 60 gm lever is on average
about 72% of the 45-gm lever rate.
Your new data show that what is constant about the behavior is not the
bar-pressing rate, but the work (force times distance) done by the rat
on the bar per unit time. 45/60 = 75%. This argues even more forcibly
that some sort of limit has been reached.
Actually, in characterizing the constancy of pellets per second as
feeding-rate regulation, the authors are making exactly the mistake I
made: assuming that control exists just because some variable behaves as
you'd expect under the hypothesis of control. A complete analysis of the
system is needed to see that control isn't actually happening.
Where next on this?
···
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Tom Bourbon [950801.1652] --
Good stuff on Staddon's previous work. Actually I was corresponding with
him around then.
I also saw that Bill Powers "unloaded" on Rick Marken, for what
Bill characterized as Rick's negative role in the discussions about
using PCT to model Staddon's work.
I could have unloaded on you, too. Not that that makes me right. I just
feel queasy about hurling generalizations around about a whole class of
psychologists, when we're communicating with one guy who is a member of
that class and is obviously not like this evil (and imaginary) image of
the Bad Behaviorist. Take people one at a time, I say. Don't judge them
by their labels, I say, any more than you'd judge them by the color of
their skins.
I don't think Rick was being a horses rear in this discussion, and
I think Bruce has shown himself perfectly capable of taking care of
himself.
Yes, the latter occurred to me. I guess I don't need to be motherly
about Bruce; he has proven that he can take care of himself.
Good work, Bruce. Now, _run some real data on control by
experimental animals_!
I think we're getting a handle on how to set up experimental conditions
that really show control. Obviously we have to make the food sizes
larger and reduce the effort needed to ingest the food each time it's
presented, so it doesn't conflict with lever-pressing. Maybe roll it
down a trough right under the rat's nose? If we could get collection
time down to less than a second, we'd at least be rid of that problem.
It's a damned good thing that we didn't go ahead and set up a "control"
experiment based on my initial model of Staddon's data!
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Martin Taylor (9508xx)
If I'm silent on your latest offerings, don't take it as criticism of
what you're saying. I just find that lately these topics don't interest
me much.
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Best to all,
Bill P.