Dealing with Controlling People

[Rick Marken 2018-03-09_16:23:30]

Here’s a little ditty I wrote for the Controlling People Facebook page (www.facebook.com/ControllingPeople):

Facebook has been nudging me to post something to this page since all the people who are following it haven’t heard from me in a long time. In other words, Facebook , via one of its computer algorithms, is trying to control my behavior – specifically my posting behavior. Since this seemeed relevant to the topic of our book I have decided to let myself be controlled and do what Facebook wants me to do. So the topic of this post will be “dealing with people (or computer algorithms) who are trying to control youâ€?. This is something we don’t deal with much in our book but it is probably what most people are interested in when the topic of controlling people comes up. Indeed, there is another book out there called “Controlling Peopleâ€? that is all about how to deal with people who are trying to control you and, unlike our book, it is a best seller. This is probably because, as we mentioned in our book, most people think of controlling people as other people who are trying to control them.

Our book is about the fact that we are all controlling people and it is this aspect of ourselves – and not the controllingg done by other people – that is probably the main cause of our psycchological problems. But it is true that our problems are also often caused by other people trying to control us. But what you will learn from our non-best-selling book about “Controlling Peopleâ€? is that our nature as controlling people is what makes it so unpleasant when other people try to control us. Being controlled by other people is unpleasant when it puts us in conflict; when we both want and don’t want to do what the other person wants us to do. For example, when your spouse asks that you do some chore, this creates a conflict if you don’t want to do the chore but you also want to help your spouse; one part of you (one control system) doesn’t want to do the chore and another part of you does. You can’t both not do and do something so both of parts of you – both of these control systems – are unable to get what they want and this is what makes being controlled feel rotten.

But notice that the conflict here is created by your own controlling nature: in particular, your own desire to control for helping your spouse in this case. In general, the controlling people who create the most problems by trying to control us are the ones with whom we have a relationship that involves our controlling for doing things for them: people such as our parents, spouses, employers, etc. Without this desire to control for doing things for the person trying to control us, there is no conflict and we will only do what the person wants us to do if we want to do it.

So the lesson of our book “Controlling Peopleâ€? about how to deal with the problems created for us by people who are trying to control us is that we deal with it the way we deal with any psychological conflict: by getting to the root of the conflict. This means becoming aware of why we have the incompatible wants that are creating the conflict. An approach to getting to the root of psychological conflict, called the Method of Levels (MoL), is described in Chapter 8 of our book. More detailed information about MoL can be found at www.methodoflevels.com.au. What we learn from MoL is that there is no “right wayâ€? to deal with the problems created by the controlling people who are trying to control you. This is because the problems are created by internal conflict and the basis of each person’s conflict is different. So the “right wayâ€? to deal with controlling people will be different for each person. MoL allows each person to find their own “right wayâ€? for themselves. But common to all the problems that are created by being controlled by other people is that they result from the fact that we are all controlling people.

···

Richard S. MarkenÂ

"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.�
                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

[Martin Taylor 2018.03.09.23.41]

        [Rick Marken

2018-03-09_16:23:30]

          Here's a little ditty I wrote

for the Controlling People Facebook page (www.facebook.com/ControllingPeople):


Our book is about the
fact that we are all controlling people and it is this
aspect of ourselves – and not the controlling done by oother
people – that is probably the main cause of our
psychological problems. But it is true that our problems are
also often caused by other people trying to control us. But
what you will learn from our non-best-selling book about
“Controlling People� is that our nature as controlling
people is what makes it so unpleasant when other people try
to control us. Being controlled by other people is
unpleasant when it puts us in conflict; when we both want
and don’t want to do what the other person wants us to do.
For example, when your spouse asks that you do some chore,
this creates a conflict if you don’t want to do the chore
but you also want to help your spouse; one part of you (one
control system) doesn’t want to do the chore and another
part of you does. You can’t both not do and do something so
both of parts of you – both of these control systems – are
unable to get what they want and this is what makes being
controlled feel rotten.

        But notice that the

conflict here is created by your own controlling nature: in
particular, your own desire to control for helping your
spouse in this case. In general, the controlling people who
create the most problems by trying to control us are the
ones with whom we have a relationship that involves our
controlling for doing things for them: people such as our
parents, spouses, employers, etc. Without this desire to
control for doing things for the person trying to control
us, there is no conflict and we will only do what the person
wants us to do if we want to do it.

        So

the lesson of our book “Controlling People� about how to
deal with the problems created for us by people who are
trying to control us is that we deal with it the way we deal
with any psychological conflict: by getting to the root of
the conflict. This means becoming aware of why we have the
incompatible wants that are creating the conflict. An
approach to getting to the root of psychological conflict,
called the Method of Levels (MoL), is described in Chapter 8
of our book. More detailed information about MoL can be
found at www.methodoflevels.com.au. What
we learn from MoL is that there is no “right way� to deal
with the problems created by the controlling people who are
trying to control you. This is because the problems are
created by internal conflict and the basis of each person’s
conflict is different. So the “right way� to deal with
controlling people will be different for each person. MoL
allows each person to find their own “right way� for
themselves. But common to all the problems that are created
by being controlled by other people is that they result from
the fact that we are all controlling people.

That's nicely put. In reading it, I was thinking about what we used

to call “counter-control”, which is kind of the mirror image of what
Rick is talking about, if I understand the term correctly. In my
understanding of “counter-control” the other is asking you to do
something you already want to do, but that conflicts with a
perception of self-autonomy or some such, which would be disturbed
by doing (or perhaps being seen to be doing) what someone else wants
you to do. You don’t do it until enough time has passed since last
you were asked to do it that you can perceive yourself (or be
perceived by others) as doing it because you, not the other, want to
have it done. Here, the conflict is that you don’t want to please
the other person, but you do want to do what they want you to do,
the mirror image or complement of the situation Rick describes.

Maybe that's different from "counter-control", discussion of which

was so long ago that I have forgotten the details. Whether it is or
not, the situation Rick describes and its complement fit together
nicely.

Martin
···

Richard S. MarkenÂ

                                "Perfection

is achieved not when you have
nothing more to add, but when you
have
nothing left to take away.�
   Â
            --Antoine de
Saint-Exupery

[Bruce Nevin 2018-03-11_15:40:04 ET]

Nice description. It doesn’t mention someone overwhelming one’s capacity to control, or remembering/imagining that and controlling to avoid it.

And nice to see that you do have followers on your CP page, and that they are quick to respond.

But where’s the promised ditty?

···

On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 7:25 PM, Richard Marken rsmarken@gmail.com wrote:

[Rick Marken 2018-03-09_16:23:30]

Here’s a little ditty I wrote for the Controlling People Facebook page (www.facebook.com/ControllingPeople):

Facebook has been nudging me to post something to this page since all the people who are following it haven’t heard from me in a long time. In other words, Facebook , via one of its computer algorithms, is trying to control my behavior – specifically my posting behavior. Sincce this seemed relevant to the topic of our book I have decided to let myself be controlled and do what Facebook wants me to do. So the topic of this post will be “dealing with people (or computer algorithms) who are trying to control youâ€?. This is something we don’t deal with much in our book but it is probably what most people are interested in when the topic of controlling people comes up. Indeed, there is another book out there called “Controlling Peopleâ€? that is all about how to deal with people who are trying to control you and, unlike our book, it is a best seller. This is probably because, as we mentioned in our book, most people think of controlling people as other people who are trying to control them.

Our book is about the fact that we are all controlling people and it is this aspect of ourselves – and not tthe controlling done by other people – that is probably the main cauuse of our psychological problems. But it is true that our problems are also often caused by other people trying to control us. But what you will learn from our non-best-selling book about “Controlling Peopleâ€? is that our nature as controlling people is what makes it so unpleasant when other people try to control us. Being controlled by other people is unpleasant when it puts us in conflict; when we both want and don’t want to do what the other person wants us to do. For example, when your spouse asks that you do some chore, this creates a conflict if you don’t want to do the chore but you also want to help your spouse; one part of you (one control system) doesn’t want to do the chore and another part of you does. You can’t both not do and do something so both of parts of you – both of these control systems – are unable to ge get what they want and this is what makes being controlled feel rotten.

But notice that the conflict here is created by your own controlling nature: in particular, your own desire to control for helping your spouse in this case. In general, the controlling people who create the most problems by trying to control us are the ones with whom we have a relationship that involves our controlling for doing things for them: people such as our parents, spouses, employers, etc. Without this desire to control for doing things for the person trying to control us, there is no conflict and we will only do what the person wants us to do if we want to do it.

So the lesson of our book “Controlling People� about how to deal with the problems created for us by people who are trying to control us is that we deal with it the way we deal with any psychological conflict: by getting to the root of the conflict. This means becoming aware of why we have the incompatible wants that are creating the conflict. An approach to getting to the root of psychological conflict, called the Method of Levels (MoL), is described in Chapter 8 of our book. More detailed information about MoL can be found at www.methodoflevels.com.au. What we learn from MoL is that there is no “right way� to deal with the problems created by the controlling people who are trying to control you. This is because the problems are created by internal conflict and the basis of each person’s conflict is different. So the “right way� to deal with controlling people will be different for each person. MoL allows each person to find their own “right way� for themselves. But common to all the problems that are created by being controlled by other people is that they result from the fact that we are all controlling people.

Richard S. MarkenÂ

"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.�
                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

[Bruce Nevin 2018-03-11_15:42:51 ET]

Counter-control in the sense that we discussed it is possible when you have determined what the other party is controlling. Another word for it is one that one of Rick’s FB followers used: manipulation.

An example of counter-control is establishing familiarity with the rubber-band demo, with knot-over-target as the reference, and then disturbing the other’s control of that perception in such a way that they draw a square or write their initial.

···

On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 11:51 PM, Martin Taylor mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net wrote:

[Martin Taylor 2018.03.09.23.41]

        [Rick Marken

2018-03-09_16:23:30]

          Here's a little ditty I wrote

for the Controlling People Facebook page (www.facebook.com/ControllingPeople):


Our book is about the
fact that we are all controlling people and it is this
aspect of ourselves – and not the controlling done by oother
people – that is probably the main cause of our
psychological problems. But it is true that our problems are
also often caused by other people trying to control us. But
what you will learn from our non-best-selling book about
“Controlling Peopleâ€? is that our nature as controlling
people is what makes it so unpleasant when other people try
to control us. Being controlled by other people is
unpleasant when it puts us in conflict; when we both want
and don’t want to do what the other person wants us to do.
For example, when your spouse asks that you do some chore,
this creates a conflict if you don’t want to do the chore
but you also want to help your spouse; one part of you (one
control system) doesn’t want to do the chore and another
part of you does. You can’t both not do and do something so
both of parts of you – both of these control systems – are
unable to get what they want and this is what makes being
controlled feel rotten.

        But notice that the

conflict here is created by your own controlling nature: in
particular, your own desire to control for helping your
spouse in this case. In general, the controlling people who
create the most problems by trying to control us are the
ones with whom we have a relationship that involves our
controlling for doing things for them: people such as our
parents, spouses, employers, etc. Without this desire to
control for doing things for the person trying to control
us, there is no conflict and we will only do what the person
wants us to do if we want to do it.

        So

the lesson of our book “Controlling Peopleâ€? about how to
deal with the problems created for us by people who are
trying to control us is that we deal with it the way we deal
with any psychological conflict: by getting to the root of
the conflict. This means becoming aware of why we have the
incompatible wants that are creating the conflict. An
approach to getting to the root of psychological conflict,
called the Method of Levels (MoL), is described in Chapter 8
of our book. More detailed information about MoL can be
found at www.methodoflevels.com.au. What
we learn from MoL is that there is no “right wayâ€? to deal
with the problems created by the controlling people who are
trying to control you. This is because the problems are
created by internal conflict and the basis of each person’s
conflict is different. So the “right wayâ€? to deal with
controlling people will be different for each person. MoL
allows each person to find their own “right wayâ€? for
themselves. But common to all the problems that are created
by being controlled by other people is that they result from
the fact that we are all controlling people.


Richard S. MarkenÂ

                                "Perfection

is achieved not when you have
nothing more to add, but when you
have
nothing left to take away.�
   Â
            --Antoine de
Saint-Exupery

That's nicely put. In reading it, I was thinking about what we used

to call “counter-control”, which is kind of the mirror image of what
Rick is talking about, if I understand the term correctly. In my
understanding of “counter-control” the other is asking you to do
something you already want to do, but that conflicts with a
perception of self-autonomy or some such, which would be disturbed
by doing (or perhaps being seen to be doing) what someone else wants
you to do. You don’t do it until enough time has passed since last
you were asked to do it that you can perceive yourself (or be
perceived by others) as doing it because you, not the other, want to
have it done. Here, the conflict is that you don’t want to please
the other person, but you do want to do what they want you to do,
the mirror image or complement of the situation Rick describes.

Maybe that's different from "counter-control", discussion of which

was so long ago that I have forgotten the details. Whether it is or
not, the situation Rick describes and its complement fit together
nicely.

Martin

[Rick Marken 2018-03-11_12:53:50]

[Bruce Nevin 2018-03-11_15:40:04 ET]
BN: Nice description. It doesn't mention someone overwhelming one's capacity to control, or remembering/imagining that and controlling to avoid it.

RM: Yes, I wanted to just deal with what I hope are the more common situations where a the controlling is done by simply asking you to do something. >

BN: And nice to see that you do have followers on your CP page, and that they are quick to respond.

BN: But where's the promised ditty?

RM: I was waxing poetic;-)
BestÂ
Rick
 >

ditty

  /dit"ee/, n., pl. ditties, v., dittied, dittying.
  n.
    1. a poem intended to be sung.
    2. a short, simple song.

[Rick Marken 2018-03-09_16:23:30]

Here's a little ditty I wrote for the Controlling People Facebook page (<http://www.facebook.com/ControllingPeople&gt;www\.facebook\.com/ControllingPeople\):

Facebook has been nudging me to post something to this page since all the people who are following it haven’t heard from me in a long time. In other words, Facebook , via one of its computer algorithms, is trying to control my behavior – specifically my posting behavior. Sincce this seemed relevant to the topic of our book I have decided to let myself be controlled and do what Facebook wants me to do. So the topic of this post will be “dealing with people (or computer algorithms) who are trying to control youâ€?. This is something we don’t deal with much in our book but it is probably what most people are interested in when the topic of controlling people comes up. Indeed, there is another book out there called “Controlling Peopleâ€? that is all about how to deal with people who are trying to control you and, unlike our book, it is a best seller. This is probably because, as we mentioned in our book, most people think of controlling people as other people who are trying to control them.

Our book is about the fact that we are all controlling people and it is this aspect of ourselves – and not tthe controlling done by other people – that is probably the main cauuse of our psychological problems. But it is true that our problems are also often caused by other people trying to control us. But what you will learn from our non-best-selling book about “Controlling Peopleâ€? is that our nature as controlling people is what makes it so unpleasant when other people try to control us. Being controlled by other people is unpleasant when it puts us in conflict; when we both want and don’t want to do what the other person wants us to do. For example, when your spouse asks that you do some chore, this creates a conflict if you don’t want to do the chore but you also want to help your spouse; one part of you (one control system) doesn’t want to do the chore and another part of you does. You can’t both not do and do something so both of parts of you – both of these control systems – are unable to ge get what they want and this is what makes being controlled feel rotten.

But notice that the conflict here is created by your own controlling nature: in particular, your own desire to control for helping your spouse in this case. In general, the controlling people who create the most problems by trying to control us are the ones with whom we have a relationship that involves our controlling for doing things for them: people such as our parents, spouses, employers, etc. Without this desire to control for doing things for the person trying to control us, there is no conflict and we will only do what the person wants us to do if we want to do it.

So the lesson of our book “Controlling People� about how to deal with the problems created for us by people who are trying to control us is that we deal with it the way we deal with any psychological conflict: by getting to the root of the conflict. This means becoming aware of why we have the incompatible wants that are creating the conflict. An approach to getting to the root of psychological conflict, called the Method of Levels (MoL), is described in Chapter 8 of our book. More detailed information about MoL can be found at <Redirecting... What we learn from MoL is that there is no “right way� to deal with the problems created by the controlling people who are trying to control you. This is because the problems are created by internal conflict and the basis of each person’s conflict is different. So the “right way� to deal with controlling people will be different for each person. MoL allows each person to find their own “right way� for themselves. But common to all the problems that are created by being controlled by other people is that they result from the fact that we are all controlling people.

--
Richard S. MarkenÂ

"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you

···

On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 7:25 PM, Richard Marken <<mailto:rsmarken@gmail.com>rsmarken@gmail.com> wrote:

have nothing left to take away.�
                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

--
Richard S. MarkenÂ
"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.�
                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery