[from Bruce Nevin (2003.06.03 15:52 EDT)]
Rick Marken (2003.06.02.1100)
> An alternative is available when the CV is controlled as means of
> controlling something else.
All controlled variables (CVs), except those at the highest levels of the hierarchy, are controlled as the means of controlling other variables. So this alternate "test for controlled variables" should work for all but the highest level variables.
You're understanding a bit too quickly.
> It appears that going into the henhouse and
> jumping up onto the roosting bars enabled them to control other variables
OK.
> It's not important to know exactly what they are controlling by these means
> in order to know that they are in fact controlling being in the coop as the
> afternoon draws on.
So you are saying that, because the hens appear to be controlling _something_ by going into the hen house, going into the hen house is clearly a controlled variable? I don't follow this.
They walk in to the henhouse and roost consistently every day toward evening, and every hen and rooster does so. I don't know for sure what perceptions they are controlling by means of this action, but I do know that they are controlling being in that location at that time of day, and staying there until morning. I have taken a bird from the roost and carried it outside and set it down and it has gone back inside and gone up on the roost.
If I walk outside, open the car door, and sit down in the driver's seat, it might be a step in controlling driving to the store, or to pick up my daughter, or to a meeting, or to sit there and listen to the radio, or to clean the car, or any number of things. Whatever else I'm controlling by means of getting in the car, can there be any doubt that I'm controlling getting in the car? What if I do it every day at the same time, without exception?
> You could say that I found out about this by disturbing controlled
> variables after all
I'm not convinced that you found a variable the hens are controlling.
No, I didn't find any variable that the hens and roosters are controlling by means of going in the hen house and roosting every day at dusk. But I did find that they are controlling a perception of being on a roost up in the air inside the hen house at dusk, and dusk happens every day. Just as previously they controlled a perception of being on a roost up in the air (a branch of a tree) at dusk every day.
(Mary Powers (2003.06.03.9:00)--
I think the real point is that YOU wanted to control where the hens spend the night, and their motives for using the coop are irrelevant to that.
Not entirely.
And not a topic of interest to you at this time.
Actually, I had what appeared to be their motives very much in mind in designing the hen house. If it did not have long poles conveniently arranged they would not be able to fly up and roost. I did not test this, but reports of others tell me that chickens don't go into a building at night to squat on the floor. They don't stay at ground level at night if there is something to roost on, unless they're brooding eggs. Then they find and modify a 'cave' deep in some brush, a space just large enough for them, with one opening and one pathway in through the brush, which they face as they spread their feathers over their eggs. Or anyway I've seen three hens do this.
Now to figure out why you are controlling for having the hens spend the night in the coop. 
That's not hard. In the mornings some would fly from the tree outside the hen yard into my cousin's field, where they were prey to dogs and other critters. In the tree at night they were vulnerable to enterprising raccoons in warmer weather. (The tree is outside the electric fence that surrounds both the hen yard and the goat yard.) In winter they froze their wattles and became more susceptible to disease. Their eggs were laid in the open where skunks nabbed them at night. Some took to staying outside the hen yard entirely, and while one was able to hatch a clutch of eggs in the woods we lost two other hens and their clutch, and the one who was successful brought her chicks in to the goat yard herself, and then into the hen yard when I provided a way for her to do that. Now they're safer, healthier, their eggs aren't stolen (unless we forget to close the coop at night and a skunk gets in), and we've had several broods of chicks that are now adults.
The point that's escaping notice here is that the prediction was made that forcing them to go into the hen house would fail, and that prediction was false. I only needed to prevent them from flying up into the tree, and 'encourage' them into the coop, one or two times. I conclude that, whatever they are controlling by roosting, they prefer to control those variables by means of going into the coop rather than by means of flying up into the tree.
Actually, the prediction was that the coercion would fail and that the hens would just do what they wanted to do. The second part is true. They are continuing to do what they want to do, using different means. Part of what they want to do now is to use the new means of roosting in the chicken coop. Previously part of what they wanted to do was to use the old means of flying up into the tree. Sounds like control to me.
/Bruce Nevin
···
At 11:04 AM 6/2/2003, Richard Marken wrote:
At 11:40 AM 6/3/2003, Mary Powers wrote:
