# Elections as collective control

**URL:** <http://discourse.iapct.org/t/elections-as-collective-control/15832>\
**Category:** Collective Control\
**Created:** [July 15, 2021, 4:41pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/elections-as-collective-control/15832 "2021-07-15T16:41:05Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Showing post:** 9

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**Author:** ![rsmarken](http://discourse.iapct.org/user_avatar/discourse.iapct.org/rsmarken/32/3553_2.png) [@rsmarken](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/rsmarken)\
**Post date:** [July 16, 2021, 7:35pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/elections-as-collective-control/15832/9 "2021-07-16T19:35:38Z")

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> > RM: Right off the bat this situation is not the same as that in Kent’s “collective control” demo.

> MT: Of course it isn’t. There are lots more kinds of collective control, some of which look like Kent’s demonstration, some of which don’t, as I said right at the beginning of this transferred thread when you asked me what I meant by “collective control” and you told me that I didn’t mean what I said I meant.

> [@Collective control, conflict, and stabilization](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/collective-control-conflict-and-stabilization/15838/3):
>
> I understand a taxonomy of types of collective control, which all have in common just one property, that the actions of two or more distinct controllers all have some influence on a variable that is the same as would be observed if that variable were perceived and controlled by some single controller with a virtual reference level. Kent and I conventionally call such a collective controller a Griant Virtual Controller (GVC). The TCV can be applied to a GVC just as it can to any conventional controller controlling a perception by acting on its environment.

> MT: Think about it.

RM: And I think (actually, I know) that this definition of collective control does not include elections or most other examples of social control. The problem is that your “GVC” exists only when all participants "…have some influence on a variable _that is the same as would be observed if that variable were perceived and controlled by some single controller with a virtual reference level_ [Emphasis mine]. As I said in my previous post, you get the GVC phenomenon only when (as in Kent’s demo) each participant would be able to control the controlled variable _on their own_. And obviously, that can’t be done a voter in an election.

RM: Think about it. Or, better yet, write a control model of an election and see what happens. Have each voter controlling for a win by either candidate 1 or candidate 2. See if you get the model to end up controlling for a win by candidate 1.5.

Best, Rick

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