[From Rick Marken (2005
[from Jeff Vancouver (2005.08.29.1010 EST)]
Hi all,
Here is another philosophical issue that I
was hoping I could get some citable references on. Perhaps some clarity on
where PCT “stands” on the issue might be good as I might not be
correct in my understanding.
Eliminative materialism is the idea that
mental concepts, like beliefs and desires, are not real and play no role in
determining human behavior. It is into this camp Bandura and Locke have put PCT (and other control
theory models). It is my sense that PCT does, in fact, the opposite, substantiating
the role of mental concepts, particularly desires, by articulating the
subsystems (i.e., control systems) that determine their operation on behavior. This
does not mean that PCT endorses all mental concepts articulated, but that it
certainly does not negate them en masse.
Jeff
Jeffrey B. Vancouver
Associate Professor
Department of Psychology
Ohio University
Athens, OH 45701
740-593-1071
[From Rick Marken (2005
[From Fred Nickols (2005.08.29.1046 EST)] –
Jeff Vancouver (2005.08.29.1010 EST)]
Eliminative
materialism is the idea that mental concepts, like beliefs and desires, are not
real and play no role in determining human behavior
Many thanks, Jeff. I got a huge
chuckle out of the line above.
Regards,
Fred Nickols
Eliminative materialism is the
idea that mental concepts, like beliefs and desires, are not real and
play no role in determining human behavior.
[From Bill Powers (2005.08.29.0907 M<DT)]
Jeff Vancouver
(2005.08.29.1010 EST)]
How interesting: it’s the idea that there is no such thing as an idea.
That being the case, we can eliminate eliminative materialism.
Sometimes philosophers make complete fools of themselves – such is my
idea.
Bandura and Locke have done their best to eliminate PCT, mostly through
misrepresentations such as saying that PCT supports eliminative
materialism. What they really mean is that PCT takes the magic out of
beliefs, desires, and so on. They want to keep the magic. I have tried to
tell them both that PCT is the scientific underpinning for their studies
of goal-directed behavior. They have thrown that olive branch in the
trash barrel. Screw 'em.
Best
Bill P.
···
It is into
this camp Bandura and Locke have put PCT (and other control theory
models). It is my sense that PCT does, in fact, the opposite,
substantiating the role of mental concepts, particularly desires, by
articulating the subsystems (i.e., control systems) that determine their
operation on behavior. This does not mean that PCT endorses all mental
concepts articulated, but that it certainly does not negate them en
masse.
Jeff
Jeffrey
B. Vancouver
Associate Professor
Department of Psychology
Ohio University
Athens, OH 45701
740-593-1071
[from Jeff Vancouver (2005.08.29.1145 EST)]
[From Bill Powers (2005.08.29.0907 M<DT)]
Jeff Vancouver (2005.08.29.1010 EST)]
[old] Eliminative
materialism is the idea that mental concepts, like beliefs and desires, are not
real and play no role in determining human behavior.
How interesting: it’s the idea that there is no such thing as an idea. That
being the case, we can eliminate eliminative materialism.
This is indeed one of the
counter-arguments philosophers make.
Sometimes philosophers make complete fools of themselves – such is my idea.
Ah, true of all the professions. FYI, few
philosophers hold to this idea.
Bandura and Locke have done their best to eliminate
PCT, mostly through misrepresentations such as saying that PCT supports
eliminative materialism. What they really mean is that PCT takes the magic out
of beliefs, desires, and so on. They want to keep the magic. I have tried to
tell them both that PCT is the scientific underpinning for their studies of
goal-directed behavior. They have thrown that olive branch in the trash barrel.
Screw 'em.
Good, we see eye to eye on this. That is,
I am understanding PCT’s
stand on this to the extant you represent PCT. Moreover,
this is the argument I have been making. Of course, the argument is not for
their sake, but for the sake of all those others who are exposed to the Bandura and Locke rhetoric.
Jeff
Jeffrey
B. Vancouver
Associate Professor
Department of Psychology
Ohio University
Athens, OH 45701
740-593-1071
···