# Eliminative materialism

**URL:** <http://discourse.iapct.org/t/eliminative-materialism/3888>\
**Category:** CSG2005\
**Created:** [August 29, 2005, 2:21pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/eliminative-materialism/3888 "2005-08-29T14:21:03Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 4\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Jeff\_Vancouver3](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/f08c70/32.png) [@Jeff\_Vancouver3](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Jeff_Vancouver3)\
**Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 2:21pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/eliminative-materialism/3888/1 "2005-08-29T14:21:03Z")

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[From Rick Marken (2005

[from Jeff Vancouver (2005.08.29.1010 EST)]

Hi all,

Here is another philosophical issue that I  
was hoping I could get some citable references on. Perhaps some clarity on  
where PCT “stands” on the issue might be good as I might not be  
correct in my understanding.

Eliminative materialism is the idea that  
mental concepts, like beliefs and desires, are not real and play no role in  
determining human behavior. It is into this camp Bandura and Locke have put PCT (and other control  
theory models). It is my sense that PCT does, in fact, the opposite, substantiating  
the role of mental concepts, particularly desires, by articulating the  
subsystems (i.e., control systems) that determine their operation on behavior. This  
does not mean that PCT endorses all mental concepts articulated, but that it  
certainly does not negate them en masse.

Jeff

Jeffrey B. Vancouver

Associate Professor

Department of Psychology

Ohio University

Athens, OH 45701

740-593-1071

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**Author:** ![Fred\_Nickols3](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/f/9de053/32.png) [@Fred\_Nickols3](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Fred_Nickols3)\
**Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 2:51pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/eliminative-materialism/3888/2 "2005-08-29T14:51:48Z")

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[From Rick Marken (2005

[From Fred Nickols (2005.08.29.1046 EST)] –

> Jeff Vancouver (2005.08.29.1010 EST)]

> Eliminative  
> materialism is the idea that mental concepts, like beliefs and desires, are not  
> real and play no role in determining human behavior

Many thanks, Jeff. I got a huge  
chuckle out of the line above.

Regards,

Fred Nickols

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**Author:** ![Bill\_Powers1](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bill\_Powers1](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Bill_Powers1)\
**Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 3:14pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/eliminative-materialism/3888/3 "2005-08-29T15:14:13Z")

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> Eliminative materialism is the  
> idea that mental concepts, like beliefs and desires, are not real and  
> play no role in determining human behavior.  
> [From Bill Powers (2005.08.29.0907 M\<DT)]

Jeff Vancouver  
(2005.08.29.1010 EST)]

How interesting: it’s the idea that there is no such thing as an idea.  
That being the case, we can eliminate eliminative materialism.

Sometimes philosophers make complete fools of themselves – such is my  
idea.

Bandura and Locke have done their best to eliminate PCT, mostly through  
misrepresentations such as saying that PCT supports eliminative  
materialism. What they really mean is that PCT takes the magic out of  
beliefs, desires, and so on. They want to keep the magic. I have tried to  
tell them both that PCT is the scientific underpinning for their studies  
of goal-directed behavior. They have thrown that olive branch in the  
trash barrel. Screw 'em.

Best

Bill P.

> **···**
>
> > It is into  
> > this camp Bandura and Locke have put PCT (and other control theory  
> > models). It is my sense that PCT does, in fact, the opposite,  
> > substantiating the role of mental concepts, particularly desires, by  
> > articulating the subsystems (i.e., control systems) that determine their  
> > operation on behavior. This does not mean that PCT endorses all mental  
> > concepts articulated, but that it certainly does not negate them en  
> > masse.
> > 
> > Jeff
> > 
> > Jeffrey  
> > B. Vancouver
> > 
> > Associate Professor
> > 
> > Department of Psychology
> > 
> > Ohio University
> > 
> > Athens, OH 45701
> > 
> > 740-593-1071

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Jeff\_Vancouver3](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/f08c70/32.png) [@Jeff\_Vancouver3](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Jeff_Vancouver3)\
**Post date:** [August 29, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/eliminative-materialism/3888/4 "2005-08-29T15:54:07Z")

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[from Jeff Vancouver (2005.08.29.1145 EST)]

[From Bill Powers (2005.08.29.0907 M\<DT)]

Jeff Vancouver (2005.08.29.1010 EST)]

[old] Eliminative  
materialism is the idea that mental concepts, like beliefs and desires, are not  
real and play no role in determining human behavior.

How interesting: it’s the idea that there is no such thing as an idea. That  
being the case, we can eliminate eliminative materialism.

This is indeed one of the  
counter-arguments philosophers make.

Sometimes philosophers make complete fools of themselves – such is my idea.

Ah, true of all the professions. FYI, few  
philosophers hold to this idea.

Bandura and Locke have done their best to eliminate  
PCT, mostly through misrepresentations such as saying that PCT supports  
eliminative materialism. What they really mean is that PCT takes the magic out  
of beliefs, desires, and so on. They want to keep the magic. I have tried to  
tell them both that PCT is the scientific underpinning for their studies of  
goal-directed behavior. They have thrown that olive branch in the trash barrel.  
Screw 'em.

Good, we see eye to eye on this. That is,  
I am understanding PCT’s  
stand on this to the extant you represent PCT. Moreover,  
this is the argument I have been making. Of course, the argument is not for  
their sake, but for the sake of all those others who are exposed to the Bandura and Locke rhetoric.

Jeff

Jeffrey  
B. Vancouver

Associate Professor

Department of Psychology

Ohio University

Athens, OH 45701

740-593-1071

> **···**
>