# Experiencing control

**URL:** <http://discourse.iapct.org/t/experiencing-control/4108>\
**Category:** CSG1994\
**Created:** [November 15, 1994, 6:36pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/experiencing-control/4108 "1994-11-15T18:36:18Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Marken\_Richard\_S1](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Marken\_Richard\_S1](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Marken_Richard_S1)\
**Post date:** [November 15, 1994, 6:36pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/experiencing-control/4108/1 "1994-11-15T18:36:18Z")

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[From Rick Marken (941115.1030)]

Bruce Abbott (941114.1630 EST)--

> Although I have "explained" the model in traditional reinforcement theory  
> terms, I'm sure that an equivalent PCT model could be formulated that would  
> do essentially the same thing

Let's try this again:

1) reinforcement theory is NOT the same as control theory.

2) reinforcement theory is NOT about what control theory is about -- control.

3) reinforcement theory is a completely and utterly incorrect explanation of  
the behavior of organisms.

The E coli programs that you have presented:

1) control the sensed gradient of "nutrition" in their environment (and, from  
the observer's point of view, arrive at a target point) when they implement a  
control model.

2) control nothing -- indeed, they produce random results -- when they  
implement a reinforcement model.

> **···**
>
> -------
> 
> I think it might help if you set up the E. coli program so that YOU are the  
> subject and you can actually experience control; it's very easy to do.  
> Notice how little learning is involved; you are immediately able to hit the  
> space bar appropriately in order to keep the dot moving toward a target  
> position on the screen. Note, also, that you can select the target position  
> yourself -- the dot has no say in where it ends up. As you do this, see if  
> you think that the consequences of you bar pressing (the reinforcements and  
> punishments) are controlling your bar pressing; do you feel like pressing the  
> bar again if the result of your last press was movement away from the target?  
> Do you feel this even if the dot is now moving toward the target? Suppose  
> that you decide to move the dot to a new target position; do movements of the  
> dot away from the old target position still make you want to press the bar  
> again (if they ever did)? What if the dot is moving away from the old target  
> but toward the new one? Is there still a little "reinforcingness" left over  
> that makes you want to press the bar? Does it seem like your actions (bar  
> presses) are controlled BY their consequences, or does it seem like you are  
> in control OF the consequences of your actions?
> 
> After doing this demo, let me know if you think that reinforcement theory  
> merits anything other than a hearty belly laugh?
> 
> Best
> 
> Rick