# Follow-up of a MOL chat

**URL:** <http://discourse.iapct.org/t/follow-up-of-a-mol-chat/4472>\
**Category:** CSG1998\
**Created:** [January 16, 1998, 3:23am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/follow-up-of-a-mol-chat/4472 "1998-01-16T03:23:47Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 2\
**Page:** 1

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![David1](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@David1](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/David1)\
**Post date:** [January 16, 1998, 3:23am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/follow-up-of-a-mol-chat/4472/1 "1998-01-16T03:23:47Z")

</div>

In my first chat with Sue, Bill commented:

The kind of conversation you had with Sue doesn't seem very informative  
to either person involved. Your immediate thought about ending the  
session was probably the correct one.

This challenged me to have a second chat. I am attaching the dialogue.  
For reasons unknown, Sue suddenly left. The conversation was better  
than the last one. The part of the conversation where she talked about  
her friends trusting her seemed to strike some paydirt.

I tried to mix more normal conversation with MOL conversation. It felt  
more natural.

See what you think.

> **···**
>
> From: David Goldstein  
> Subject: Follow-up of a MOL chat  
> Date: 1/15/98
> 
> --------------------------------------  
> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;ICQ Chat Save file  
> Started on Thu Jan 15 19:22:09 1998
> 
> --------------------------------------  
> \<David\> Hello.  
> \<Sue\> hi david  
> \<David\> Are you feeling OK?  
> \<Sue\> yes, except my hand hurts  
> \<Sue\> the doctor told me tonstretch it out as much as i can and that feel like someone twisting a knife in the palm  
> \<David\> Doesn't sound too good.  
> \<Sue\> no, but he's a good doctor and i trust him. besides, i remember what it was like when he did the other hand  
> \<David\> Do you have better sensation in your hand now?  
> \<Sue\> not yet, but the operation was just the day before yesterday, too soon  
> \<David\> Are we in some kind of chat room?  
> \<Sue\> only mine  
> \<David\> How does that work?  
> \<Sue\> if someone requests a chat with you, it opens your chat room  
> \<Sue\> everyone has one  
> \<David\> How was it that those people were able to join our chat the last time without asking permission?  
> \<David\> I don't think I had mine, but you must have had yours. I guess one is enough.  
> \<Sue\> we had our chat set to auto accept.  
> \<David\> Do you remember our last chat, any after reactions?  
> \<Sue\> yeah. you find it under events in your preferences. uncheck the box. no did you get to know me better?  
> \<David\> A little. I was wondering if you were irritated or annoyed toward the end?  
> \<David\>  
> \<Sue\> no, i don't remember, but think i had a kid get, i had to use the restroon, and my coffee cup was empty. i think you were annoyed at being interrupted  
> \<David\> Yes that is true.  
> \<Sue\> when you're in a chat, you have to keep an open mind -- in life too, the way i'm in control is that i won't talk sex and anyone who doesn't respect that gets bumped off  
> \<David\> Do you find that a lot of people want to talk sex?  
> \<Sue\> not yet, but then i've only been on a week  
> \<David\> Are you really a truck driver?  
> \<Sue\> i was drove a thirteen speed white, a nine speed mack and a twin stick pete  
> \<David\>  
> \<David\> Did you do it by yourself, or with another person?  
> \<Sue\> not alone. first with my husband then with a friend i was helping he needed to catch up on his bills or lose the truck  
> \<David\> Do you want to go back to driving a truck?  
> \<Sue\> I'd love to, but most of it is over the road and i'm not leaving my kids with anyone  
> \<David\> So what will you do?  
> \<Sue\> computer programming after i finish this course and get a bit more on it  
> \<David\> How far along are you in the program?  
> \<Sue\> only module 5, but then i stopped studying in early november. with the hollidays, i couldn't study  
> \<David\> Do you find it easy or hard so far to learn?  
> \<David\> Still there?  
> \<Sue\> not really, but math always came easy to me, it's memorizing anything (like theorems for geometry) that is hard  
> \<David\> I am sure you will find a way around this problem.  
> \<Sue\> yeah by studying at home it's all open-dook, and the final exam is proctored, but still open-book  
> \<David\> Does the image of a computer programmer fit you?  
> \<Sue\> i don't think i fit any preconceived images  
> \<David\> I saw a TV program yesterday where the person who produced Titanic was on. He went from being a truck driver to being a film producer.  
> \<Sue\> look at cledis maggard, he went from being a travelling insurance salesman to a country music star  
> \<David\> What do your kids think of their mom being a computer programmer?  
> \<Sue\> they like the idea because they know it pays more than minimum wage and we can live better  
> \<David\> Do you like being a mom?  
> \<Sue\> yes  
> \<Sue\> housekeeper, no, cook, yes and dr mom, yes  
> \<David\> Do you follow any philosophy when it comes to being a mom?  
> \<Sue\> not that i know of, if my children push me beyond endurance, thet get spanked, but i have more patience than anyone else i have ever known  
> \<David\> this last statement is an example of a comment on what we have been talking about.  
> \<David\> Would you like to change the topic to the one of patience?  
> \<Sue\> if you want, i can talk on any subject  
> \<David\> Or, this last statement is another example of a comment about yourself.  
> \<David\> What is it like to be able to talk on any subject?  
> \<Sue\> don't know, i just do it naturally, though sometimes i have to think  
> \<David\> Are you very wide read or just a lot of experience with a lot of stuff?  
> \<Sue\> both  
> \<Sue\> i haven't read many autobiographies or biographies, as they bore me, but yes, very widely read  
> \<Sue\> and street-smarts, too  
> \<David\> Sounds like you have a very positive image of yourself.  
> \<Sue\> no i tell my friends i'm short, fat, and ugly, but they just won't believe me  
> \<David\> That's funny.  
> \<Sue\> true  
> \<David\>  
> \<David\> How do they see you?  
> \<Sue\> never asked, but they trust me above anyone else they know and they always tell me when i look nice  
> \<David\> What is it like to have friends who have this opinion of you?  
> \<Sue\> nice. it's not the same as having a boyfriend or husband, but i feel it's justified  
> \<Sue\> i've earned their trust  
> \<David\> How?  
> \<Sue\> the way i handle a minor crisis, getting to know me, the way i handle their kids and mine  
> \<Sue\> other things, too  
> \<David\> Would it bother you if one of your friends stopped trusting you?  
> \<Sue\> yes, but the reason and the truth would come out eventually and that's where my patience kicks in  
> \<David\> Sounds like a good combination.  
> \<Sue\> i'm pretty easy to get along with  
> \<David\> Would your husband and boyfriends agree with this?  
> \<Sue\> not my husband, but then he'd probably only say that to make me think i was doing something wrong and he'd wait for a reaction  
> \<David\>  
> \<David\> U, meaning what about you?  
> \<David\> You want to know about my situation?  
> \<David\> Still there?  
> --------------------------------------

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Bill\_Powers1](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bill\_Powers1](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Bill_Powers1)\
**Post date:** [January 16, 1998, 5:22pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/follow-up-of-a-mol-chat/4472/2 "1998-01-16T17:22:26Z")

</div>

[From Bill Powers (980116.0916 MST)]

> From: David Goldstein  
> Subject: Follow-up of a MOL chat  
> Date: 1/15/98

> In my first chat with Sue, Bill commented:
> 
> The kind of conversation you had with Sue doesn't seem very informative  
> to either person involved. Your immediate thought about ending the  
> session was probably the correct one.
> 
> This challenged me to have a second chat. I am attaching the dialogue.  
> For reasons unknown, Sue suddenly left. The conversation was better  
> than the last one. The part of the conversation where she talked about  
> her friends trusting her seemed to strike some paydirt.

I didn't notice any clear level shifts on Sue's part, although there were  
hints. The problem was still, I think, that she wasn't treating the  
conversation as an exploration, but simply as a give-and-take with you as a  
person. There was never any agreement that she would explore and you would  
guide or monitor.

> I tried to mix more normal conversation with MOL conversation. It felt  
> more natural.

That's what she was expecting, I think: a normal conversation. This may  
have felt more natural to you, but I don't think it worked -- sometimes you  
sounded like that psychiatrist program that just echoes your words. You  
weren't getting any help from Sue, because she didn't know what you were  
trying to do.

I think this second try shows that it is important to establish an  
understanding of the motivation for the conversation, and get the person's  
agreement to treat it as a personal exploration. Not everyone will want to  
do this, on the internet or anywhere else. It's not our role to overcome  
resistance or trick anyone into revealing things that are not volunteered.

I've been thinking about how to get the right atmosphere established in a  
short time, since you can't really post a general introduction that you  
don't have to type in every time. Here are some bits I have thought of:

1. I'm doing a research project on self-exploration, using a new approach  
called the Method of Levels. You would act as the explorer, while I act as  
a guide. Would you like to try it?

2. The object is to catch background thoughts, opinions, feelings, and so  
on that come up while you're talking about some foreground subject. Do you  
know what I mean by that?

3. My interest in this is to test the Method of Levels with people selected  
at random, to see if it works as well as it seems to with volunteers I have  
worked with in person. It may turn out to be a simple and effective  
problem-solving method. That's what I'm trying to find out.

4. I won't be giving any advice or doing any analysis. My only part in this  
is to bring your attention to higher-level viewpoints that are already in  
your mind. You'll see what I mean after we've done this a while. Would you  
like to start a session?

How these snippets would come up, and in what order, depends on what the  
other person answers. The limited length of a message is good, in that it  
will keep the guide from talking too much.

Best,

Bill P.