Fundamental building kits...

CSGnet Archive CSG2016
1

[From Rick Marken (2016.01.02.1202)]

···

On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 5:37 AM, Warren Mansell wmansell@gmail.com wrote:

Please use this email with correct addresses…

Hi Warren

What’s the right address that points to the Sloman paper?

Best

Rick

On 2 Jan 2016, at 13:34, Warren Mansell wmansell@gmail.com wrote:

Hi there, I am circulating this link to a project by Aaron Sloman, and ccd Aaron, to see what views people have from a PCT perspective. We have often discussed a perceptual control unit being a fundamental unit of control by living things, incorporating of course the nervous system, body and shared environment. We have also discussed what might be the biological building blocks that enable living organisms to build perceptual control systems. Finally, we have discussed both the limitations of digital computers, and the Turing Test, but said less about Turing’s fascinating later work in morphogenesis.

Any thoughts on Aaron’s project from CSG list members and PCT researchers?

All the best,

Warren

Begin forwarded message:

From: Google Scholar Alerts scholaralerts-noreply@google.com
Date: 2 January 2016 07:28:09 GMT
To: wmansell@gmail.com
Subject: Scholar Alert - [ “powers 1973” ]

Scholar Alert: [ “powers 1973” ]

[PDF] Construction kits for biological evolution

A Sloman

Page 1. Construction kits for biological evolution Aaron Sloman Invited contribution to: The
Incomputable (To be published by Springer) Eds. Mariya Soskova and S Barry Cooper DRAFT:
LIABLE TO CHANGE. The book version was frozen on 7th Dec 2015. …

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–

Richard S. Marken

Author, with Timothy A. Carey, of Controlling People: The Paradoxical Nature of Being Human.

2

Good to see the connection to Margaret Boden. I’m still looking for an affordable copy of her critique of CogSci, Mind as machine: A history of cognitive science.

I see that right off the bat he equates control with consciousness, where he says “(Even insects must be conscious of aspects of their surroundings.)”

···

On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Warren Mansell wmansell@gmail.com wrote:

Hi everyone, does this work better?

http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/projects/cogaff/incomputable-kits-sloman.pdf

On Saturday, January 2, 2016, Richard Marken rsmarken@gmail.com wrote:

[From Rick Marken (2016.01.02.1202)]

–
Dr Warren Mansell
Reader in Clinical Psychology
School of Psychological Sciences
2nd Floor Zochonis Building
University of Manchester
Oxford Road
Manchester M13 9PL
Email: warren.mansell@manchester.ac.uk

Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 8589

Website: http://www.psych-sci.manchester.ac.uk/staff/131406

Advanced notice of a new transdiagnostic therapy manual, authored by Carey, Mansell & Tai - Principles-Based Counselling and Psychotherapy: A Method of Levels Approach

Available Now

Check www.pctweb.org for further information on Perceptual Control Theory

On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 5:37 AM, Warren Mansell wmansell@gmail.com wrote:

Please use this email with correct addresses…

Hi Warren

What’s the right address that points to the Sloman paper?

Best

Rick

On 2 Jan 2016, at 13:34, Warren Mansell wmansell@gmail.com wrote:

Hi there, I am circulating this link to a project by Aaron Sloman, and ccd Aaron, to see what views people have from a PCT perspective. We have often discussed a perceptual control unit being a fundamental unit of control by living things, incorporating of course the nervous system, body and shared environment. We have also discussed what might be the biological building blocks that enable living organisms to build perceptual control systems. Finally, we have discussed both the limitations of digital computers, and the Turing Test, but said less about Turing’s fascinating later work in morphogenesis.

Any thoughts on Aaron’s project from CSG list members and PCT researchers?

All the best,

Warren

Begin forwarded message:

From: Google Scholar Alerts scholaralerts-noreply@google.com
Date: 2 January 2016 07:28:09 GMT
To: wmansell@gmail.com
Subject: Scholar Alert - [ “powers 1973” ]

Scholar Alert: [ “powers 1973” ]

[PDF] Construction kits for biological evolution

A Sloman

Page 1. Construction kits for biological evolution Aaron Sloman Invited contribution to: The
Incomputable (To be published by Springer) Eds. Mariya Soskova and S Barry Cooper DRAFT:
LIABLE TO CHANGE. The book version was frozen on 7th Dec 2015. …

This Google Scholar Alert is brought to you by Google.

Cancel alert
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–
Richard S. Marken

Author, with Timothy A. Carey, of Controlling People: The Paradoxical Nature of Being Human.

3

[From Fred Nickols (2016.01.03.1020)]

Here’s a related link:

http://www.livescience.com/47096-theories-seek-to-explain-consciousness.html

Most sources I’ve checked define “consciousnessâ€? as “the state of being aware, of perceiving.â€? Is that the one that undergirds the current conversation?

Fred Nickols

···

From: Bruce Nevin [mailto:bnhpct@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2016 10:07 AM
To: CSG
Cc: Tim Carey; Vyv Huddy; Martin Taylor; Kent McClelland; Henry Yin; Sergio Pellis; a.sloman@cs.bham.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Fundamental building kits…

Good to see the connection to Margaret Boden. I’m still looking for an affordable copy of her critique of CogSci, Mind as machine: A history of cognitive science.

I see that right off the bat he equates control with consciousness, where he says “(Even insects must be conscious of aspects of their surroundings.)”

/B

On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Warren Mansell wmansell@gmail.com wrote:

Hi everyone, does this work better?

http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/projects/cogaff/incomputable-kits-sloman.pdf

On Saturday, January 2, 2016, Richard Marken rsmarken@gmail.com wrote:

[From Rick Marken (2016.01.02.1202)]

On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 5:37 AM, Warren Mansell wmansell@gmail.com wrote:

Please use this email with correct addresses…

Hi Warren

What’s the right address that points to the Sloman paper?

Best

Rick

On 2 Jan 2016, at 13:34, Warren Mansell wmansell@gmail.com wrote:

Hi there, I am circulating this link to a project by Aaron Sloman, and ccd Aaron, to see what views people have from a PCT perspective. We have often discussed a perceptual control unit being a fundamental unit of control by living things, incorporating of course the nervous system, body and shared environment. We have also discussed what might be the biological building blocks that enable living organisms to build perceptual control systems. Finally, we have discussed both the limitations of digital computers, and the Turing Test, but said less about Turing’s fascinating later work in morphogenesis.

Any thoughts on Aaron’s project from CSG list members and PCT researchers?

All the best,

Warren

Begin forwarded message:

From: Google Scholar Alerts scholaralerts-noreply@google.com
Date: 2 January 2016 07:28:09 GMT
To: wmansell@gmail.com
Subject: Scholar Alert - [ “powers 1973” ]

Scholar Alert: [ “powers 1973” ]

[PDF] Construction kits for biological evolution

A Sloman

Page 1. Construction kits for biological evolution Aaron Sloman Invited contribution to: The
Incomputable (To be published by Springer) Eds. Mariya Soskova and S Barry Cooper DRAFT:
LIABLE TO CHANGE. The book version was frozen on 7th Dec 2015. …

This Google Scholar Alert is brought to you by Google.

Cancel alert
List my alerts

–

Richard S. Marken

Author, with Timothy A. Carey, of Controlling People: The Paradoxical Nature of Being Human.

–

Dr Warren Mansell
Reader in Clinical Psychology
School of Psychological Sciences
2nd Floor Zochonis Building
University of Manchester
Oxford Road
Manchester M13 9PL
Email: warren.mansell@manchester.ac.uk

Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 8589

Website: http://www.psych-sci.manchester.ac.uk/staff/131406

Advanced notice of a new transdiagnostic therapy manual, authored by Carey, Mansell & Tai - Principles-Based Counselling and Psychotherapy: A Method of Levels Approach

Available Now

Check www.pctweb.org for further information on Perceptual Control Theory

4

Under that definition, which seems to equate awareness with perception, any negative-feedback control system is conscious. Your canonical thermostat or cruise-control system is conscious.

I think the reason we doubt that is that we are aware of being aware, and believe that such devices are not. Perhaps what we are talking about, then, is what is sometimes called self-consciousness: aware of oneself as being aware, and capable of being aware of one’s awareness (though not indulging such perceptions all the time). This ‘awareness of awareness’ could be a product of talking to ourselves about perceptions that we’re aware of, i.e. what used to be called ‘reflecting’. I suspect that there are pre-language or non-linguistic ways of reflecting on our experience. It is probable that (some) animals are capable of that, hasn’t been tested SFAIK. And SFAIK no robot is yet capable of reflecting. I could be wrong.Â

···

On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 10:21 AM, Fred Nickols fred@nickols.us wrote:

[From Fred Nickols (2016.01.03.1020)]

Â

Here’s a related link:

Â

http://www.livescience.com/47096-theories-seek-to-explain-consciousness.html

Â

Most sources I’ve checked define “consciousness� as “the state of being aware, of perceiving.� Is that the one that undergirds the current conversation?

Â

Fred Nickols

Â

From: Bruce Nevin [mailto:bnhpct@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2016 10:07 AM
To: CSG
Cc: Tim Carey; Vyv Huddy; Martin Taylor; Kent McClelland; Henry Yin; Sergio Pellis; a.sloman@cs.bham.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Fundamental building kits…

Â

Good to see the connection to Margaret Boden. I’m still looking for an affordable copy of her critique of CogSci, Mind as machine: A history of cognitive science.

Â

I see that right off the bat he equates control with consciousness, where he says “(Even insects must be conscious of aspects of their surroundings.)”

Â

/B

Â

On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Warren Mansell wmansell@gmail.com wrote:

Hi everyone, does this work better?

Â

http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/projects/cogaff/incomputable-kits-sloman.pdf

Â

On Saturday, January 2, 2016, Richard Marken rsmarken@gmail.com wrote:

[From Rick Marken (2016.01.02.1202)]

Â

On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 5:37 AM, Warren Mansell wmansell@gmail.com wrote:

Please use this email with correct addresses…

Â

Hi WarrenÂ

Â

What’s the right address that points to the Sloman paper?Â

Â

BestÂ

Â

Rick

Â

On 2 Jan 2016, at 13:34, Warren Mansell wmansell@gmail.com wrote:

Hi there, I am circulating this link to a project by Aaron Sloman, and ccd Aaron, to see what views people have from a PCT perspective. We have often discussed a perceptual control unit being a fundamental unit of control by living things, incorporating of course the nervous system, body and shared environment. We have also discussed what might be the biological building blocks that enable living organisms to build perceptual control systems. Finally, we have discussed both the limitations of digital computers, and the Turing Test, but said less about Turing’s fascinating later work in morphogenesis.Â

Â

Any thoughts on Aaron’s project from CSG list members and PCT researchers?

Â

All the best,

Â

Warren

Begin forwarded message:

From: Google Scholar Alerts scholaralerts-noreply@google.com
Date: 2 January 2016 07:28:09 GMT
To: wmansell@gmail.com
Subject: Scholar Alert - [ “powers 1973” ]

Scholar Alert: [ “powers 1973” ]

[PDF] Construction kits for biological evolution

A Sloman

Page 1. Construction kits for biological evolution Aaron Sloman Invited contribution to: The
Incomputable (To be published by Springer) Eds. Mariya Soskova and S Barry Cooper DRAFT:
LIABLE TO CHANGE. The book version was frozen on 7th Dec 2015. …

Â

This Google Scholar Alert is brought to you by Google.

Cancel alert
List my alerts

Â

–

Richard S. MarkenÂ

Author, with Timothy A. Carey, of  Controlling People: The Paradoxical Nature of Being Human.Â

Â

Â

–

Dr Warren Mansell
Reader in Clinical Psychology
School of Psychological Sciences
2nd Floor Zochonis Building
University of Manchester
Oxford Road
Manchester M13 9PL
Email: warren.mansell@manchester.ac.uk
Â
Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 8589
Â
Website: http://www.psych-sci.manchester.ac.uk/staff/131406

Â
Advanced notice of a new transdiagnostic therapy manual, authored by Carey, Mansell & Tai - Principles-Based Counselling and Psychotherapy: A Method of Levels Approach

Available Now

Check www.pctweb.org for further information on Perceptual Control Theory

Â

Â

Â

5

I like that. I wod be surprised if a language pre-cursor was not involved in the development of self-consciousness…

···

On Sun, Jan 3, 2016 at 10:21 AM, Fred Nickols fred@nickols.us wrote:

[From Fred Nickols (2016.01.03.1020)]

Here’s a related link:

http://www.livescience.com/47096-theories-seek-to-explain-consciousness.html

Most sources I’ve checked define “consciousness� as “the state of being aware, of perceiving.� Is that the one that undergirds the current conversation?

Fred Nickols

From: Bruce Nevin [mailto:bnhpct@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2016 10:07 AM
To: CSG
Cc: Tim Carey; Vyv Huddy; Martin Taylor; Kent McClelland; Henry Yin; Sergio Pellis; a.sloman@cs.bham.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Fundamental building kits…

Good to see the connection to Margaret Boden. I’m still looking for an affordable copy of her critique of CogSci, Mind as machine: A history of cognitive science.

I see that right off the bat he equates control with consciousness, where he says “(Even insects must be conscious of aspects of their surroundings.)”

/B

On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Warren Mansell wmansell@gmail.com wrote:

Hi everyone, does this work better?

http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/projects/cogaff/incomputable-kits-sloman.pdf

On Saturday, January 2, 2016, Richard Marken rsmarken@gmail.com wrote:

[From Rick Marken (2016.01.02.1202)]

On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 5:37 AM, Warren Mansell wmansell@gmail.com wrote:

Please use this email with correct addresses…

Hi Warren

What’s the right address that points to the Sloman paper?

Best

Rick

On 2 Jan 2016, at 13:34, Warren Mansell wmansell@gmail.com wrote:

Hi there, I am circulating this link to a project by Aaron Sloman, and ccd Aaron, to see what views people have from a PCT perspective. We have often discussed a perceptual control unit being a fundamental unit of control by living things, incorporating of course the nervous system, body and shared environment. We have also discussed what might be the biological building blocks that enable living organisms to build perceptual control systems. Finally, we have discussed both the limitations of digital computers, and the Turing Test, but said less about Turing’s fascinating later work in morphogenesis.

Any thoughts on Aaron’s project from CSG list members and PCT researchers?

All the best,

Warren

Begin forwarded message:

From: Google Scholar Alerts scholaralerts-noreply@google.com
Date: 2 January 2016 07:28:09 GMT
To: wmansell@gmail.com
Subject: Scholar Alert - [ “powers 1973” ]

Scholar Alert: [ “powers 1973” ]

[PDF] Construction kits for biological evolution

A Sloman

Page 1. Construction kits for biological evolution Aaron Sloman Invited contribution to: The
Incomputable (To be published by Springer) Eds. Mariya Soskova and S Barry Cooper DRAFT:
LIABLE TO CHANGE. The book version was frozen on 7th Dec 2015. …

This Google Scholar Alert is brought to you by Google.

Cancel alert
List my alerts

–

Richard S. Marken

Author, with Timothy A. Carey, of Controlling People: The Paradoxical Nature of Being Human.

–

Dr Warren Mansell
Reader in Clinical Psychology
School of Psychological Sciences
2nd Floor Zochonis Building
University of Manchester
Oxford Road
Manchester M13 9PL
Email: warren.mansell@manchester.ac.uk

Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 8589

Website: http://www.psych-sci.manchester.ac.uk/staff/131406

Advanced notice of a new transdiagnostic therapy manual, authored by Carey, Mansell & Tai - Principles-Based Counselling and Psychotherapy: A Method of Levels Approach

Available Now

Check www.pctweb.org for further information on Perceptual Control Theory

6

Hi there, I am circulating this link to a project by Aaron Sloman, and ccd Aaron, to see what views people have from a PCT perspective. We have often discussed a perceptual control unit being a fundamental unit of control by living things, incorporating of course the nervous system, body and shared environment. We have also discussed what might be the biological building blocks that enable living organisms to build perceptual control systems. Finally, we have discussed both the limitations of digital computers, and the Turing Test, but said less about Turing’s fascinating later work in morphogenesis.

Any thoughts on Aaron’s project from CSG list members and PCT researchers?

All the best,

Warren

···

Begin forwarded message:

From: Google Scholar Alerts scholaralerts-noreply@google.com
Date: 2 January 2016 07:28:09 GMT
To: wmansell@gmail.com
Subject: Scholar Alert - [ “powers 1973” ]

Scholar Alert: [ “powers 1973” ]

[PDF] [Construction kits for biological evolution](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__scholar.google.co.uk_scholar-5Furl-3Furl-3Dhttp-3A__www.cs.bham.ac.uk_research_projects_cogaff_incomputable-2Dkits-2Dsloman.pdf-26hl-3Den-26sa-3DX-26scisig-3DAAGBfm1-2Da6UybQ-5FDLeCz3l3CSQqCjSeBfA-26nossl-3D1-26oi-3Dscholaralrt&d=BQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=2SZ0Co_t4U65vJquA91d2uSyMeBPkXsdlPF1CDiPtjE&s=5GTtE1j

sBls-qhjpX5FC0x290_M7cp2ym7nWRd5vl0U&e=)
A Sloman

Page 1. Construction kits for biological evolution Aaron Sloman Invited contribution to: The
Incomputable (To be published by Springer) Eds. Mariya Soskova and S Barry Cooper DRAFT:
LIABLE TO CHANGE. The book version was frozen on 7th Dec 2015. …

This Google Scholar Alert is brought to you by Google.

Cancel alert
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7

Please use this email with correct addresses…

···

On 2 Jan 2016, at 13:34, Warren Mansell wmansell@gmail.com wrote:

Hi there, I am circulating this link to a project by Aaron Sloman, and ccd Aaron, to see what views people have from a PCT perspective. We have often discussed a perceptual control unit being a fundamental unit of control by living things, incorporating of course the nervous system, body and shared environment. We have also discussed what might be the biological building blocks that enable living organisms to build perceptual control systems. Finally, we have discussed both the limitations of digital computers, and the Turing Test, but said less about Turing’s fascinating later work in morphogenesis.

Any thoughts on Aaron’s project from CSG list members and PCT researchers?

All the best,

Warren

Begin forwarded message:

From: Google Scholar Alerts scholaralerts-noreply@google.com
Date: 2 January 2016 07:28:09 GMT
To: wmansell@gmail.com
Subject: Scholar Alert - [ “powers 1973” ]

Scholar Alert: [ “powers 1973” ]

[PDF] [Construction kits for biological evolution](Proofpoint Targeted Attack Protection

-26hl-3Den-26sa-3DX-26scisig-3DAAGBfm1-2Da6UybQ-5FDLeCz3l3CSQqCjSeBfA-26nossl-3D1-26oi-3Dscholaralrt&d=BQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=MWJDTwrdu-Q5IHTAjW7leJLauDcO5IatHZJBlzPUFo4&s=ERmsA1DyRfKZshAUxS7ygnDo2X5uetFxntcH-_13Wf8&e=)
A Sloman

Page 1. Construction kits for biological evolution Aaron Sloman Invited contribution to: The
Incomputable (To be published by Springer) Eds. Mariya Soskova and S Barry Cooper DRAFT:
LIABLE TO CHANGE. The book version was frozen on 7th Dec 2015. …

This Google Scholar Alert is brought to you by Google.

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8

Hi everyone, does this work better?

http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/projects/cogaff/incomputable-kits-sloman.pdf

···

On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 5:37 AM, Warren Mansell wmansell@gmail.com wrote:

Please use this email with correct addresses…

Hi Warren

What’s the right address that points to the Sloman paper?

Best

Rick

On 2 Jan 2016, at 13:34, Warren Mansell wmansell@gmail.com wrote:

Hi there, I am circulating this link to a project by Aaron Sloman, and ccd Aaron, to see what views people have from a PCT perspective. We have often discussed a perceptual control unit being a fundamental unit of control by living things, incorporating of course the nervous system, body and shared environment. We have also discussed what might be the biological building blocks that enable living organisms to build perceptual control systems. Finally, we have discussed both the limitations of digital computers, and the Turing Test, but said less about Turing’s fascinating later work in morphogenesis.

Any thoughts on Aaron’s project from CSG list members and PCT researchers?

All the best,

Warren

Begin forwarded message:

From: Google Scholar Alerts scholaralerts-noreply@google.com
Date: 2 January 2016 07:28:09 GMT
To: wmansell@gmail.com
Subject: Scholar Alert - [ “powers 1973” ]

Scholar Alert: [ “powers 1973” ]

[PDF] Construction kits for biological evolution

A Sloman

Page 1. Construction kits for biological evolution Aaron Sloman Invited contribution to: The
Incomputable (To be published by Springer) Eds. Mariya Soskova and S Barry Cooper DRAFT:
LIABLE TO CHANGE. The book version was frozen on 7th Dec 2015. …

This Google Scholar Alert is brought to you by Google.

Cancel alert
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–
Richard S. Marken

Author, with Timothy A. Carey, of Controlling People: The Paradoxical Nature of Being Human.

9

Yes, this works fine.

···

On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Warren Mansell wmansell@gmail.com wrote:

Hi everyone, does this work better?

http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/research/projects/cogaff/incomputable-kits-sloman.pdf

On Saturday, January 2, 2016, Richard Marken rsmarken@gmail.com wrote:

[From Rick Marken (2016.01.02.1202)]

–
Dr Warren Mansell
Reader in Clinical Psychology
School of Psychological Sciences
2nd Floor Zochonis Building
University of Manchester
Oxford Road
Manchester M13 9PL
Email: warren.mansell@manchester.ac.uk

Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 8589

Website: http://www.psych-sci.manchester.ac.uk/staff/131406

Advanced notice of a new transdiagnostic therapy manual, authored by Carey, Mansell & Tai - Principles-Based Counselling and Psychotherapy: A Method of Levels Approach

Available Now

Check www.pctweb.org for further information on Perceptual Control Theory

On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 5:37 AM, Warren Mansell wmansell@gmail.com wrote:

Please use this email with correct addresses…

Hi Warren

What’s the right address that points to the Sloman paper?

Best

Rick

On 2 Jan 2016, at 13:34, Warren Mansell wmansell@gmail.com wrote:

Hi there, I am circulating this link to a project by Aaron Sloman, and ccd Aaron, to see what views people have from a PCT perspective. We have often discussed a perceptual control unit being a fundamental unit of control by living things, incorporating of course the nervous system, body and shared environment. We have also discussed what might be the biological building blocks that enable living organisms to build perceptual control systems. Finally, we have discussed both the limitations of digital computers, and the Turing Test, but said less about Turing’s fascinating later work in morphogenesis.

Any thoughts on Aaron’s project from CSG list members and PCT researchers?

All the best,

Warren

Begin forwarded message:

From: Google Scholar Alerts scholaralerts-noreply@google.com
Date: 2 January 2016 07:28:09 GMT
To: wmansell@gmail.com
Subject: Scholar Alert - [ “powers 1973” ]

Scholar Alert: [ “powers 1973” ]

[PDF] Construction kits for biological evolution

A Sloman

Page 1. Construction kits for biological evolution Aaron Sloman Invited contribution to: The
Incomputable (To be published by Springer) Eds. Mariya Soskova and S Barry Cooper DRAFT:
LIABLE TO CHANGE. The book version was frozen on 7th Dec 2015. …

This Google Scholar Alert is brought to you by Google.

Cancel alert
List my alerts

–
Richard S. Marken

Author, with Timothy A. Carey, of Controlling People: The Paradoxical Nature of Being Human.

10

[From Rick Marken (2016.01.06.1900)]

WM: Hi there, I am circulating this link to a project by Aaron Sloman, and ccd Aaron, to see what views people have from a PCT perspective...

WM: Any thoughts on Aaron's project from CSG list members and PCT researchers?

RM: The question Aaron addresses -- actually a version of it -- has been on my mind quite a bit recently. While Aaron asks how it is possible for a species capable of making the discoveries in Euclid's Elements to have evolved from lifeless matter, I ask why this capability evolved at all. Modern H. sapiens have been around for at least 28,000 years. The earliest written evidence of H. sapiens' use of geometry is from 3000 BC, meaning geometrical thinking was being done by H. sapiens for at least the last 5000 years of its existence. Even if we generously assume that H. sapiens was doing geometry for 5000 years before the earliest written records of it, then H. sapiens was managing to survive as a species for at least 18,000 years without the ability to do geometry.
RM: I see two possibilities here: Either the first modern H. sapiens 1) could not do geometry and this brain capability evolved over the a period of about 18,000 years due to adaptive pressures for this skill or 2) they had the brain capability to do geometry but didn't develop this skill until circumstances required (or allowed) it. PCT inclines me to go with the second option.
RM: According to PCT, the brain comes equipped with the ability to perceive (and, thus control) a hierarchy of different types of perceptual variables. What we are born with is not necessarily a pre-wired set of perceptual functions but rather something more like Aaron's "toolkit" -- neural organizations that are ready to be built into neural nets that will perceive the world in terms of different types of perceptual variables: sensations, configurations, transitions, relationships, etc -- or whatever the different types of perceptual variable turn out to be.
RM: A geometrical proof is a high level perception -- a program perception, perhaps -- that is carried out to instantiate a still higher level -- possibly principle -- perception. So the ability to carry out a proof is the same ability that is involved in controlling any program and principle. The ability to control program and principle perceptions was surely an adaptive skill for H. sapiens (in order to live successfully in relative large social groups) so once a brain developed that had the ability to perceive the world in terms of programs and principlesl you had a brain with at least one of the capabilities needed to do what Euclid did: control for producing geometrical proofs.
RM: I think research aimed at determining the kinds of perceptual variables people control -- the program of research articulated by Powers in his "Cybernetic Model for Research in Human Development" paper reprinted in Living Control Systems (pp. 167-220) -- would go a long way to answering my question (as well as Aaron's): Why are people so good at complex mathematics since there seemed to be no evolutionary advantage to having this ability? I think it's because what evolved was a capability to perceive (and control) the world in terms of perceptual variables that did provide adaptive advantage -- capabilities that could also be used to write Euclid's Elements, Shakespeare's plays and Beethoven's symphonies.
Best
Rick

···

On Sat, Jan 2, 2016 at 5:34 AM, Warren Mansell <<mailto:wmansell@gmail.com>wmansell@gmail.com> wrote:
--
Richard S. Marken
Author, with Timothy A. Carey, of <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.amazon.com_Controlling-2DPeople-2DParadoxical-2DNature-2DBeing_dp_1922117641_ref-3Dsr-5F1-5F1-3Fs-3Dbooks-26ie-3DUTF8-26qid-3D1449541975-26sr-3D1-2D1&d=BQMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=QwT9VzOa1etQKW1ZRvUCe9YE_OReS4yadLEhPGmtmPI&s=XtVSGB-Q6LqrKXZA-_nOVFpnlDccmDcW2T2L-Ats0kE&e=&gt;Controlling People: The Paradoxical Nature of Being Human.