# FW: Open access version

**URL:** <http://discourse.iapct.org/t/fw-open-access-version/4208>\
**Category:** CSG2018\
**Created:** [May 22, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/fw-open-access-version/4208 "2018-05-22T18:01:08Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![\_Boris\_Hartman](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/_/e8c25b/32.png) [@\_Boris\_Hartman](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/_Boris_Hartman)\
**Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/fw-open-access-version/4208/1 "2018-05-22T18:01:08Z")

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Warren. I understand that all your work is worthless if you admitt that “Behavior is not control”. But playing a clown is not on the level of University profesor. As I noticed before. CSGnet is becoming oure behavioristic forum where “Behavior is control” there is “Controlled aspect of environment” and there is some misterious “Controlled Perceptual Variable” or PCV. Does anybody beleive in PCT on this forum ?

Boris

> **···**
>
> **From:** Warren Mansell [wmansell@gmail.com](mailto:wmansell@gmail.com)  
> **Sent:** Tuesday, May 22, 2018 11:02 AM  
> **To:** [boris.hartman@masicom.net](mailto:boris.hartman@masicom.net)  
> **Subject:** Re: Open access version
> 
> I still can’t tell the difference, sorry.
> 
> On 21 May 2018, at 20:44, Boris Hartman ([boris.hartman@masicom.net](mailto:boris.hartman@masicom.net) via csgnet Mailing List) [csgnet@lists.illinois.edu](mailto:csgnet@lists.illinois.edu) wrote:
> 
> > Hi Warren
> 
> > 
> 
> > **From:** Warren Mansell ([wmansell@gmail.com](mailto:wmansell@gmail.com) via csgnet Mailing List) [csgnet@lists.illinois.edu](mailto:csgnet@lists.illinois.edu)  
> > **Sent:** Friday, May 18, 2018 6:01 PM  
> > **To:** csgnet@lists.illinois.edu; CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU  
> > **Subject:** Open access version
> 
> > WM : Hi, here is the open access version of our replication paper:
> 
> > [https://www.research.manchester.ac.uk/portal/en/publications/the-assessment-and-modeling-of-perceptual-control(9a95a0bf-e3ae-4b42-90f6-b579496c5c4e).html](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.research.manchester.ac.uk_portal_en_publications_the-2Dassessment-2Dand-2Dmodeling-2Dof-2Dperceptual-2Dcontrol-289a95a0bf-2De3ae-2D4b42-2D90f6-2Db579496c5c4e-29.html&d=DwMFAg&c=OCIEmEwdEq_aNlsP4fF3gFqSN-E3mlr2t9JcDdfOZag&r=G2rjwc9SjlT6Blyc8su_Md8P_xOsOTRMJ5teQVBC2qU&m=O15YMQj4KJHryCAnYUjpQZEpla0v_NB7YXYdeiC0jn8&s=OBCUP5hMuUWJsa9Qdu-qTNCGI1j5X2Mg3hfurvFZeRE&e=)
> 
> > HB : I’m sorry Warren to notice that you presented “behavioristic” paper if I may conclude what you and Huddy wrote in abstract :
> 
> > WM, IH : We explain how this shift can be made within a single framework – perceptual control theory - that regards behaviorr as the control of perceptual input.
> 
> > HB : Can you show me some evidence that people can “Control behavior” ? If they can (if you’ll show evidences) than I’ll beleive that “percepttion” (input) can be controlled through behavior.
> 
> > 
> 
> > The Title of Bills’ Book is “Behavior : The control of perception”. I don’t understand how you concluded that “behavior can control input” ? From the diagram (LCS III) and definitions of control (B:CP) we can conclude that “behavior is coming after control of perception” in comparator. And it’s affecting immediate enviroment. There is no controlled effects. How can you concluded that behavior controls input, if you don’t know what you are doing to reality through “feedback function” ? It’s just effects to input.
> 
> > 
> 
> > Bill P :
> 
> > FEED-BACK FUNCTION : The box represents the set of physical laws, properties, arrangements, linkages, by which the action of this system feeds-back to affect its own input, the controlled variable. That’s what feed-back means : it’s an effect of a system’s output on it’s own input.
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > HB : Why did you use your own explanation of “feedback function” instead of his. Behavior (output) affects it’s own input. It’s not : Behavior “controls” input. Where di you get that ? Maybe Rick is “source” or “hidden joker” ?
> 
> > 
> 
> > Best,
> 
> > Boris