Hi Boris, sorry they still seem the same to me!
All the best
Warren
He, he Warren. I didn’t know that you have the same difficullties reading Bills’ literature as Rick does. O.K. we’ll go step by step.
RCT (Ricks Control Theory) definition of control loop
CONTROL : Keeping of some »aspect of outer environment« in reference state, protected (defended) from disturbances.
PCT Definitions of control loop :
Bill P (B:CP):
CONTROL : Achievement and maintenance of a preselected state in the controlling system, through actions on the environment that also cancel the effects of disturbances.
Do you see now any differences between definitions of control ? You must be blind if you don’t. See doctor for new glasses.
Ricks control definition is controlling in environment of organism and Bills is controlling inside organism. Shall we go word by word ?
RCT (Ricks Control Theory) definition of control loop
OUTPUT FUNCTION : controlled effects (control of behavior) to outer environment so to keep some »controlled variable« in reference state
PCT Definitions of control loop :
OUTPUT FUNCTION : The portion of a system that converts the magnitude or state of a signal inside the system into a corresponding set of effects on the immediate environment of the system
Bill P (LCS III):…the output function shown in it’s own box represents thee means this system has for causing changes in it’s environment.
Do you see any differences in “output function” ? The difference can be seen from the plane. Does anybody else on this forum see no differences in definition of “output function” ?
Ricks control theory says that “behavior is control” smf that there is generally some “controlled variable” in environmet of organism. Bills’ definitions says that “Output” just affect environment. No “Control of behavior”, no “controlled variable” in environment of organism.
So will you prove that you can “Behavior can be controlled” ?
This is for now. If you can prove that “Behavior can be controlled” then will continue with differences between definitions.
Best,
Boris
···
From: Warren Mansell wmansell@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 7:51 AM
To: boris.hartman@masicom.net
Subject: Re: paper
Hi Boris, sorry they still seem the same to me!
All the best
Warren
On 15 May 2018, at 22:32, Boris Hartman (boris.hartman@masicom.net via csgnet Mailing List) csgnet@lists.illinois.edu wrote:
Hi Warren.
-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Mansell wmansell@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 5:44 AM
Subject: Paper
Hi Boris, you tell me which it is as I genuinely still don’t know the difference between RCT and PCT!
All the best,
Warren
HB : I’m sorry to say it, but I posted differences so many times that I’m surprised that you didn’t see them. Differences are so obvious that you can’t miss them. It can be seen form the plane.
Here they are :
RCT (Ricks Control Theory) definition of control loop
- CONTROL : Keeping of some »aspect of outer environment« in reference state, protected (defended) from disturbances.
- OUTPUT FUNCTION : controlled effects (control of behavior) to outer environment so to keep some »controlled variable« in reference state
- FEED-BACK FUNCTION : »Control« of some »aspect of outer environment« in reference state.
- INPUT FUNCTION : produce »Controlled Perceptual Variable« or »Controlled Perception«, the perceptual correlate of »controlled q.i.«
- COMPARATOR : ???
- ERROR SIGNAL : ???
His diagram involves “controlled variable” in environment.
PCT Definitions of control loop :
Bill P (B:CP):
- CONTROL : Achievement and maintenance of a preselected state in the controlling system, through actions on the environment that also cancel the effects of disturbances.
Bill P (B:CP):
- OUTPUT FUNCTION : The portion of a system that converts the magnitude or state of a signal inside the system into a corresponding set of effects on the immediate environment of the system
Bill P (LCS III):…the output funnction shown in it’s own box represents the means this system has for causing changes in it’s environment.
Bill P (LCS III):
- FEED-BACK FUNCTION : The box represents the set of physical laws, properties, arrangements, linkages, by which the action of this system feeds-back to affect its own input, the controlled variable. That’s what feed-back means : it’s an effect of a system’s output on it’s own input.
Bill P (B:CP) :
- INPUT FUNCTION : The portion of a system that receives signals or stimuli from outside the system, and generates a perceptual signal that is some function of the received signals or stimuli.
Bill P (B:CP) :
- COMPARATOR : The portion of control system that computes the magnitude and direction of mismatch between perceptual and reference signal.
Bill P (B:CP)
- ERROR : The discrepancy between a perceptual signal and a reference signal, which drives a control system’s output function. The discrepancy between a controlled quantity and it’s present reference level, which causes observable behavior.
Bill P (B:CP) :
- ERROR SIGNAL : A signal indicating the magnitude and direction of error.
PCT diagram :
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