# Getting drunk/was Re:A Question

**URL:** <http://discourse.iapct.org/t/getting-drunk-was-re-a-question/4732>\
**Category:** CSG1998\
**Created:** [July 7, 1998, 6:13am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/getting-drunk-was-re-a-question/4732 "1998-07-07T06:13:18Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Cyvchoate](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/b38774/32.png) [@Cyvchoate](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Cyvchoate)\
**Post date:** [July 7, 1998, 6:13am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/getting-drunk-was-re-a-question/4732/1 "1998-07-07T06:13:18Z")

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i.kurtzer (980707.0100)

closing note

Rick:

\< And I don't think "helping" simply involves the coincidental equality

> of reference signals in control systems of unequal strength. This is  
> accidental helping at best. Real helping -- intentionally helping  
> another control system to control better -- is a much more complex  
> process which involves education as well as direct (intentional)  
> physical assisistance.

I agree the characterizations are currently limited. Hell, that's been my  
position. But the principle is the same no matter how complex the models  
become--classification is a function of BOTH agents.

> I also don't agree with your definition of cooperation.  
> It may be that the two control systems have to have equal  
> references at some level but they certainly don't have to be  
> of equal strength and they typically have to control \_different\_  
> lower level perceptions in order to achieve the cooperative  
> result (the latter fact is what is most interesting about  
> cooperation).

the principle is the same, just shifted up a level. In fact, I can see  
persons cooperating at one level and conflicting at a lower level. You'll  
have to defuse this some other way.

bring the cod-piece

i.