Habit-my revised working definition

[From Lloyd Klinedinst (2015.07.05.0813 CDT)]

As before, attached is my current summary of what I understand CSGnet members saying
to help me get at a working definition of habit in line with PCT.

Thanks much for your continuing contributions to this thread.

Lloyd

Dr. Lloyd Klinedinst
10 Dover Lane
Villa Ridge, MO 63089-2001
HomeVoice: (636) 451-3232

Lloyd Mobile: (314)-609-5571
email: lloydk@klinedinst.com

website: http://www.klinedinst.com

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2nd reply to CSG draft.rtf (6.68 KB)

[Martin Taylor 2015.07.05.09.44]

I know this is just verbal, but when one is trying to determine the

range of things covered by a label, it can also be useful to
consider what is not. So, if you ask yourself about whether you
would qualify X as a habit, you might ask whether it makes sense to
you to say “I am not in the habit of X”. “I am not in the habit of
scratching my itch with my left hand” makes sense. “I am not in the
habit of perceiving my front door to be purple” does not, or if it
does to you, it doesn’t to me, which would make communication
between us on that topic difficult.

The implications of control are what they are independently of the

words attached to them. They can be studied. If you want to see how
they apply to words which are in the language because they are
useful in communication, one should ask where they map onto the
understood or theorized workings of a control structure. There’s not
much value in doing that until you have an idea as to what patterns
of observable action/behaviour the words ordinarily apply – and do
not apply.

Martin
···

On 2015/07/5 9:12 AM,
( via csgnet Mailing
List) wrote:

"lloydk@klinedinst.com"lloydk@klinedinst.com

[From Lloyd Klinedinst (2015.07.05.0813 CDT)]

  As before, attached is my current summary of what I understand

CSGnet members saying
to help me get at a working definition of habit in
line with PCT.

    Thanks much for your continuing contributions to

this thread.

Lloyd

       Dr. Lloyd Klinedinst

       10 Dover Lane

       Villa Ridge, MO 63089-2001

      HomeVoice: (636) 451-3232
      Lloyd Mobile:

(314)-609-5571

      email: lloydk@klinedinst.com

website: http://www.klinedinst.com

[Lloyd Klinedinst 2015.07.05.14.46]

Following your 1st ¶ suggestion, I am in the habit of

	voice to text entering whenever I can

	driving on the right side of the road

	driving on the inside lane, passing on the outside

	reading a text as a spatial as well as linear composition

	eating a main meal at midday rather than in the evening

I am not in the habit of

	eating using utensils with only one hand

	staying up late

	waking up late

	being late for appointments or events

	being quick to respond to a remark or message

These, I estimate, are behaviors in and out of the set of habits, i.e. behaviors, by which I am recognized.

In your 2nd ¶, I am fully aware that the map is NOT the territory, the menu is NOT the meal, … You say, “They can be studied.” You could mean words, actions, and/or behaviors, as I read the 2nd sentence. I thoroughly agree and am attempting to map these words to carefully approximate the “workings of a control structure”. By the way, I think the examples I gave represent ‘habits’ at several various levels of the PCT hierarchy: event, sequence, and program.

As always, thanks for the continuing dialogue.

Lloyd

···

On Jul 5, 2015, at 08:53, Martin Taylor (mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net via csgnet Mailing List) csgnet@lists.illinois.edu wrote:

[Martin Taylor 2015.07.05.09.44]

I know this is just verbal,…

[Martin Taylor 2015.07.05.16.31]

In mathematics, there is a procedure called a "Dedekind cut" that

serves to define any number, rational or irrational by successively
listing rational numbers that are greater than or less than the
number to be defined (such as PI or sqrt(2).

Lloyd has now listed a few "yes" and a few "no" items, that do or do

not correspond to his concept of “habit”. This procedure is akin to
the Dedking\d Cut in that it asserts that the boundary between habit
and not-habit lies between these, which are specified actions rather
than specified controlled perceptions, much as irrational numbers
can be defined by listing rational numbers.

I think, however, that there is a major difference, in that there is

an indefinite intermediate area, which can loosely be specified by
filling in related sentences to those I proposed initially, namely:

"I am in the habit of ... but I sometimes (often) don't"

"I an not in the habit of ... but I sometimes (often) do"

I suspect there are a couple of items in Lloyd's two lists that

would correctly fit these sentences. If not, I would be surprised if
he could not find other examples that would. Would other people
observing Lloyd agree with his placement of actions/behaviours in
the (now) four framework sentences?

We are talking about communication, not about PCT, but underneath

the communication issue, the question is what perceptions are being
controlled in ways that make them seem to fit those sentences in the
way Lloyd and those observing Lloyd perceive them to do. If there is
general agreement that X is a “habit” or is a “not-habit” why would
Lloyd control in that consistent/inconsistent way? Would he have no
other way to control those perceptions? If not, would the repeated
use of the consistent way justify the use of the word “habit”? Does
the persistence of the “habit” when it conflicts with other
perceptions matter? Does Lloyd never pass a slow vehicle on a
two-lane road?

Martin
···
    [Lloyd

Klinedinst 2015.07.05.14.46]

     Following

your 1st ¶ suggestion, I am in the habit of

     voice

to text entering whenever I can

     driving

on the right side of the road

     driving

on the inside lane, passing on the outside

     reading

a text as a spatial as well as linear composition

     eating

a main meal at midday rather than in the evening

     I am

not in the habit of

     eating

using utensils with only one hand

     staying

up late

     waking

up late

     being

late for appointments or events

     being

quick to respond to a remark or message

    These, I

estimate, are behaviors in and out of the set of habits, i.e.
behaviors, by which I am recognized.

     In

your 2nd ¶, I am fully aware that the map is NOT the territory,
the menu is NOT the meal, … You say, “They can be studied.” You
could mean words, actions, and/or behaviors, as I read the 2nd
sentence. I thoroughly agree and am attempting to map these
words to carefully approximate the “workings of a control
structure”. By the way, I think the examples I gave represent
‘habits’ at several various levels of the PCT hierarchy: event,
sequence, and program.

     As

always, thanks for the continuing dialogue.

Lloyd

On Jul 5, 2015, at 08:53, Martin Taylor (mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net via csgnet Mailing List) > > <csgnet@lists.illinois.edu > > > wrote:

          [Martin Taylor

2015.07.05.09.44]

                      I know this is just

verbal,…

[From Frank Lenk (2015.07.05.1700 CDT)]

Lloyd -

I may be misinterpreting, but your most recent synthesis seems to be, in many places, close to my own views on habit. I have been reading Dewey’s Human Nature and Conduct as part of my dissertation work. Dewey describes habits as “arts” - that is, they are what we learn to navigate the world. Most habits are good, in the sense that they help us do that navigation. They become “bad” when they are learned to accommodate one situation but we find ourselves in conditions other than the ones for which they were adapted. According to Dewey, habits have power because they are so much a part of us, that in any real sense they are us, that our character is defined by the interpenetration of our habits. Dewey is very clear that the essence of habit is in no way repetition, but learning and skill. Habits can be thoughtless (“mere routine”), but the best habits are those that are “intelligent” - that is, they are flexible, sensitive, having “grow[n] more varied, adaptable by practice and use." Dewey allows that, “the truth is in every waking moment, the complete balance of the organism and its environment is constantly interfered with and as constantly restored,” and sees habits as the mechanism of that restoration.

There is much more, obviously, but the parallels between habits and perceptual control systems are clear. We are our habits. We are our control systems. These ar
e equivalent statements (in my view, anyway). To me, then, “habit” is simply a fuzzy verbal concept (you call it folk psychology) that PCT clarifies as different aspects of perceptual control systems arranged in a hierarchy.

As a result, I am not sure what the concept of “habit” offers that the concept of perceptual control systems does not.

Frank

Frank Lenk

Director of Research Services

Mid-America Regional Council

600 Broadway, Suite 200

Kansas City, MO 64105

www.marc.org

Ph. 816.701.8237 (direct)

flenk@marc.org

···

From: “csgnet@lists.illinois.edu” csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Reply-To: lloydk@klinedinst.com
Date: Sunday, July 5, 2015 at 8:12 AM
To: “csgnet@lists.illinois.edu” csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Habit-my revised working definition

[From Lloyd Klinedinst (2015.07.05.0813 CDT)]

As before, attached is my current summary of what I understand CSGnet members saying
to help me get at a working definition of habit in line with PCT.

Thanks much for your continuing contributions to this thread.

Lloyd

Dr. Lloyd Klinedinst
10 Dover Lane
Villa Ridge, MO 63089-2001
HomeVoice: (636) 451-3232

Lloyd Mobile: (314)-609-5571
email: lloydk@klinedinst.com

website: http://www.klinedinst.com