I'm depressed

[From Rick Marken (2008.09.01.1110)]

I just read that even after his brilliant, lovely acceptance speech
(which he probably wrote largely himself) Obama got no convention
bounce and that even after picking an inexperienced VP who believes in
creation science and state control of a woman's reproductive choices,
the polling shows the race statistically tied. I found this
depressing even though I think I have been able to do enough MOL on
myself to know why I might find it so.

I think I have a conflict: One side of the conflict wants to work hard
for Obama and be optimistic about the chances of this country becoming
admirable again; the other side of the conflict wants to accept the
very real possibility that McCain will win so that I won't fell
disappointed again. This conflict produces depression because I can't
act (by giving or not giving money and other support to Obama) without
creating error in one or the other side of the conflict. If I give
support to Obama I create error in the side of the conflict that wants
to avoid the disappointment of seeing McCain (and Palin) win; if I
don't give support to Obama I create error in the side of the conflict
that wants to be positive and work for what I perceive as a better
tomorrow.

Just knowing that this conflict exists in me doesn't seem to help
much; I'm still depressed. Of course, this may be because I still
haven't found the true conflict. But I'm posting because I want to see
if any of you (Bill included, even though he hates me to talk about
this stuff) might be able to help. What I need, I think, is to be able
to see how a McCain/Palin presidency could seem like anything other
than a disaster, even with Democratic control of both Houses of
Congress (as seems likely). Maybe those of you out there who are
McCain/Palin supporters could do what Bill suggested when we have an
interpersonal conflict and tell me the higher order reasons why
electing McCain/Palin seems better to you than electing Obama/Biden?
Or just the higher level reasons why you favor Republican policies. If
I could see it your way then maybe I could overcome my conflict and
not worry so much about the results of this election. I want to learn
to stop worrying and love the Republicans;-) I want to know how one
can still feel inclined to vote Republican after what the US (and the
world, for that matter) has gone though in the last 71/2 years.

Thanks in advance for you help.

Best

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com

I don’t watch the polls much, but there’s a good website that looks at it from an electoral college perspective, complete with a simulation program and all, that you might like to check out. If nothing else the probability stats may assuage your fears of another republican term.

The site is http://www.270towin.com/ which may be the sequel to the indispensable electoralcollege.com of 2004 (haven’t looked into it yet).

erik.

···

On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 11:13 AM, Richard Marken rsmarken@gmail.com wrote:

[From Rick Marken (2008.09.01.1110)]

I just read that even after his brilliant, lovely acceptance speech

(which he probably wrote largely himself) Obama got no convention

bounce and that even after picking an inexperienced VP who believes in

creation science and state control of a woman’s reproductive choices,

the polling shows the race statistically tied. I found this

depressing even though I think I have been able to do enough MOL on

myself to know why I might find it so.

I think I have a conflict: One side of the conflict wants to work hard

for Obama and be optimistic about the chances of this country becoming

admirable again; the other side of the conflict wants to accept the

very real possibility that McCain will win so that I won’t fell

disappointed again. This conflict produces depression because I can’t

act (by giving or not giving money and other support to Obama) without

creating error in one or the other side of the conflict. If I give

support to Obama I create error in the side of the conflict that wants

to avoid the disappointment of seeing McCain (and Palin) win; if I

don’t give support to Obama I create error in the side of the conflict

that wants to be positive and work for what I perceive as a better

tomorrow.

Just knowing that this conflict exists in me doesn’t seem to help

much; I’m still depressed. Of course, this may be because I still

haven’t found the true conflict. But I’m posting because I want to see

if any of you (Bill included, even though he hates me to talk about

this stuff) might be able to help. What I need, I think, is to be able

to see how a McCain/Palin presidency could seem like anything other

than a disaster, even with Democratic control of both Houses of

Congress (as seems likely). Maybe those of you out there who are

McCain/Palin supporters could do what Bill suggested when we have an

interpersonal conflict and tell me the higher order reasons why

electing McCain/Palin seems better to you than electing Obama/Biden?

Or just the higher level reasons why you favor Republican policies. If

I could see it your way then maybe I could overcome my conflict and

not worry so much about the results of this election. I want to learn

to stop worrying and love the Republicans;-) I want to know how one

can still feel inclined to vote Republican after what the US (and the

world, for that matter) has gone though in the last 71/2 years.

Thanks in advance for you help.

Best

Rick

Richard S. Marken PhD

rsmarken@gmail.com

[From Rick Marken (2008.09.01.1200)]

I don't watch the polls much, but there's a good website that looks at it
from an electoral college perspective, complete with a simulation program
and all, that you might like to check out. If nothing else the probability
stats may assuage your fears of another republican term.

The site is http://www.270towin.com/ which may be the sequel to the
indispensable electoralcollege.com of 2004 (haven't looked into it yet).

erik.

Thanks so much Erik (or erik; my son refuses to use capitals also and
I want to respect that;-). But as soon as I get optimistic and start
thinking I'll go all out for Obama the error in the "He still could
lose" side comes out despite these polls. This happened to me in the
two Bush elections. I thought Bush's callowness would be so obvious
that he would get no more than 20% of the vote in 2000; in fact, he
got nearly 50%. In 2004 I thought the fact that Kerry was a war hero
and Bush a draft dodger would give a clear victory to Kerry, despite
Bush's Iraq war propaganda. But it all seemed to work in Bush's favor.
Now we have McCain picking a VP who is inexperienced, scientifically
illiterate and in the pocket of big oil. This should make it a
no-brainer but now we find that she has a pregnant teenager (which she
tried to conceal) and a husband with a DWI, both of which will
apparently work in her favor. If these things had been revealed about
a Democratic VP candidate it would have been all over.

But I will still bookmark you polling place!

Thanks

Rick

···

On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 11:43 AM, erik dean <erikndean@gmail.com> wrote:
--
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com

[From Bill Powers (2008.09.01.1309 MDT)]

Rick Marken (2008.09.01.1110) --

I think I have a conflict: One side of the conflict wants to work hard
for Obama and be optimistic about the chances of this country becoming
admirable again; the other side of the conflict wants to accept the
very real possibility that McCain will win so that I won't fell
disappointed again.

This doesn't quite present a conflict (A and not-A), because working hard for Obama and being optimistic are not the opposite of feeling disappointed. You could do both, couldn't you?

McCain could win and you could be not disappointed, or you could work hard for Obama and accept the possibility that McCain could win. These are not logically contradictory states. If you're depressed because of a true conflict (likely) then the conflict is such that there is no solution, given the way you state the problem. That's what you need to find.

One way to narrow the conflict is to come up with solutions that appear to satisfy the stated conditions, and see why they won't work for you.

1. Work hard for Obama, knowing that McCain might win and disappoint you. What's wrong with doing that?

2. Avoid disappointment by giving up working for Obama, knowing you will not admire America if McCain wins. What's wrong with doing that?

Don't worry about finding the conflict. Just ask yourself, "Well, what IS wrong with that?" Look for the answer that already exists, not a theoretical or logical answer.

Then we can iterate again if necessary.

Best,

Bill P.

I am too.
For what it's worth, I've thought all along that McCain was sure to win,
partly because nobody I know is going to vote for him.

So I've adopted this strategy: I'll give even money on McCain, in units of
$100, to any takers (up to $1,000 overall). Each time someone takes me up
on it, I donate $100 to the Obama campaign -- $400 so far. That way, if
Obama wins I'm out $800 (so far), but I'll be so happy I won't care. If
McCain wins, at least I get my money back!

Regards,
Ted

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Control Systems Group Network (CSGnet)
[mailto:CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU] On Behalf Of Richard Marken
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 12:14 PM
To: CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU
Subject: I'm depressed

[From Rick Marken (2008.09.01.1110)]

I just read that even after his brilliant, lovely acceptance speech
(which he probably wrote largely himself) Obama got no convention
bounce and that even after picking an inexperienced VP who believes in
creation science and state control of a woman's reproductive choices,
the polling shows the race statistically tied. I found this
depressing even though I think I have been able to do enough MOL on
myself to know why I might find it so.

I think I have a conflict: One side of the conflict wants to work hard
for Obama and be optimistic about the chances of this country becoming
admirable again; the other side of the conflict wants to accept the
very real possibility that McCain will win so that I won't fell
disappointed again. This conflict produces depression because I can't
act (by giving or not giving money and other support to Obama) without
creating error in one or the other side of the conflict. If I give
support to Obama I create error in the side of the conflict that wants
to avoid the disappointment of seeing McCain (and Palin) win; if I
don't give support to Obama I create error in the side of the conflict
that wants to be positive and work for what I perceive as a better
tomorrow.

Just knowing that this conflict exists in me doesn't seem to help
much; I'm still depressed. Of course, this may be because I still
haven't found the true conflict. But I'm posting because I want to see
if any of you (Bill included, even though he hates me to talk about
this stuff) might be able to help. What I need, I think, is to be able
to see how a McCain/Palin presidency could seem like anything other
than a disaster, even with Democratic control of both Houses of
Congress (as seems likely). Maybe those of you out there who are
McCain/Palin supporters could do what Bill suggested when we have an
interpersonal conflict and tell me the higher order reasons why
electing McCain/Palin seems better to you than electing Obama/Biden?
Or just the higher level reasons why you favor Republican policies. If
I could see it your way then maybe I could overcome my conflict and
not worry so much about the results of this election. I want to learn
to stop worrying and love the Republicans;-) I want to know how one
can still feel inclined to vote Republican after what the US (and the
world, for that matter) has gone though in the last 71/2 years.

Thanks in advance for you help.

Best

Rick
--
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com

Rick: the thought of those 2 republican dummies winning both frightens and depresses me as well. It gives me a gigantuon error signal and creates a homongulus disturbance.jon voight on their team also is disturbing. Keep your sense of humor and do not foqget who comprises the electorate. Gary

Should be forget not foqget although my texting error made lt even funnier. Hooray for errors. Gary

[From Rick Marken (2008.09.02.2200)]

Bill Powers (2008.09.01.1309 MDT)]

If you're depressed because of a true
conflict (likely) then the conflict is such that there is no solution, given
the way you state the problem. That's what you need to find.

One way to narrow the conflict is to come up with solutions that appear to
satisfy the stated conditions, and see why they won't work for you.

1. Work hard for Obama, knowing that McCain might win and disappoint you.
What's wrong with doing that?

2. Avoid disappointment by giving up working for Obama, knowing you will not
admire America if McCain wins. What's wrong with doing that?

Don't worry about finding the conflict. Just ask yourself, "Well, what IS
wrong with that?" Look for the answer that already exists, not a theoretical
or logical answer.

Then we can iterate again if necessary.

OK. I like this!! This seems like the way I would like to see MOL
done, at least with me as the client. Maybe it's because I'm hyper
rational (or hyper intellectual) but this seems like a nice, helpful
suggestion (based on a PCT understanding of the nature of conflict and
emotion) and it provides me with a nice way to proceed in the search
for what might be the source of my depression about this. Actually,
I'm feeling less and less depressed as the Republicans reveal
themselves to be the incompetents and hypocrites that they are, but I
still wonder whether the public will notice.

I will work on you assignment and come back to iterate, if necessary.

Love

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com

[From Dick Robertson,2008.09.03.1505CDT]

···

From: Ted Cloak tcloak@UNM.EDU
Date: Monday, September 1, 2008 4:49 pm
Subject: Re: I’m depressed

I am too. For what it’s worth, I’ve thought all along that McCain was sure
to win, partly because nobody I know is going to vote for him.
So I’ve adopted this strategy: I’ll give even money on McCain, in units of
$100, to any takers (up to $1,000 overall). Each time someone takes me up
on it, I donate $100 to the Obama campaign – $400 so far.
That way, if Obama wins I’m out $800 (so far), but I’ll be so happy I won’t
care. If McCain wins, at least I get my money back!

Ted,

That’s brilliant. I’m going to look for a McCain supporter among my neighbors.

Best,

Dick R

Regards,
Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: Control Systems Group Network (CSGnet)
[mailto:CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU] On Behalf Of Richard Marken
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 12:14 PM
To: CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU
Subject: I’m depressed

[From Rick Marken (2008.09.01.1110)]

I just read that even after his brilliant, lovely acceptance speech
(which he probably wrote largely himself) Obama got no convention
bounce and that even after picking an inexperienced VP who
believes in
creation science and state control of a woman’s reproductive choices,
the polling shows the race statistically tied. I found this
depressing even though I think I have been able to do enough MOL on
myself to know why I might find it so.

I think I have a conflict: One side of the conflict wants to
work hard
for Obama and be optimistic about the chances of this country becoming
admirable again; the other side of the conflict wants to accept the
very real possibility that McCain will win so that I won’t fell
disappointed again. This conflict produces depression because I can’t
act (by giving or not giving money and other support to Obama) without
creating error in one or the other side of the conflict. If I give
support to Obama I create error in the side of the conflict that wants
to avoid the disappointment of seeing McCain (and Palin) win; if I
don’t give support to Obama I create error in the side of the conflict
that wants to be positive and work for what I perceive as a better
tomorrow.

Just knowing that this conflict exists in me doesn’t seem to help
much; I’m still depressed. Of course, this may be because I still
haven’t found the true conflict. But I’m posting because I want
to see
if any of you (Bill included, even though he hates me to talk about
this stuff) might be able to help. What I need, I think, is to
be able
to see how a McCain/Palin presidency could seem like anything other
than a disaster, even with Democratic control of both Houses of
Congress (as seems likely). Maybe those of you out there who are
McCain/Palin supporters could do what Bill suggested when we
have an
interpersonal conflict and tell me the higher order reasons why
electing McCain/Palin seems better to you than electing Obama/Biden?
Or just the higher level reasons why you favor Republican
policies. If
I could see it your way then maybe I could overcome my conflict and
not worry so much about the results of this election. I want to learn
to stop worrying and love the Republicans;-) I want to know how one
can still feel inclined to vote Republican after what the US
(and the
world, for that matter) has gone though in the last 71/2 years.

Thanks in advance for you help.

Best

Rick

Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com