KR, Social Purpose

[From Rick Marken (961002.1520)]

Me:

Whether the KR is a controlled variable or a disturbance variable in a
particular situation can be determined by tracing out the functional
relationships between variables in the control loop.

Bruce Abbott (961002.1515 EST)--

That's fine if you have the diagram in front of you. How do you tell which
_diagram_ applies?

I meant by inspection of the functional relationships that exist in the
experimental situation. The experimenter who set up the experient should
know what these are.

The participant _could_ be attempting to keep the experimenter saying
"correct" or _could_ be trying to keep her perception (restriction present
or absent) in agreement with reality, as _indicated_ by the experimenter's
response. It seems to me that either case leads to the same objective data
being produced in the experiment.

That may be true if the "objective data" is being collected using
conventional IV - DV methodology. But these two cases would lead to very
different "objective data" if the data were collected using the methodology
of The Test. The participant who is controlling for the experimenter saying
"correct" would behave quite differently to a disturbance of the relationship
between perceived restriction and the experimenter's response than the
participant who is controlling for a particular state of that relationship.

Bill Benzon (961002) --

So, how do we think of social purpose and culture? Are they simply the sum
of individual purpose and preference or do we have a genuinely social &
cultural dynamic?

I beiieve that we see as "social purpose and culture" is a side effect of the
controlling done by individual controllers. Other side effects of this
interaction are what we perceive as social and cultural dynamics.

What do you mean by "genuinely social & cultural dynamics"?

Best

Rick

Bill Benzon (961002) --

So, how do we think of social purpose and culture? Are they simply the sum
of individual purpose and preference or do we have a genuinely social &
cultural dynamic?

I beiieve that we see as "social purpose and culture" is a side effect of the
controlling done by individual controllers. Other side effects of this
interaction are what we perceive as social and cultural dynamics.

What do you mean by "genuinely social & cultural dynamics"?

Hmmm....might not be too different from what you mean by "side effect" in
this context. When a group splits in two for whatever reason, is that a
side-effect?
When a group creates a hierarchical social control structure (A reports to
B, who reports to C, who gives orders to B, etc.), is that a side-effect?
Is a conversation a side-effect?

ยทยทยท

Best

Rick

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