Leading Questions - Chapter 5

[From Fred Nickols (990101.1545 EST)]--

Key Points from Chapter 5 - The Control-system Unit of Organization

"System models are common in engineering but not in behavioral or social
science. Outside of engineering the term system often appears to mean a
network of disembodied relationships that link behaving entities together,
whereas an engineer would probably translate the term to mean a diagram of
the insides of a behaving entity." (p. 57)

For what it's worth, Bill, a technician would probably take the same view
as an engineer. I recall still, when being trained as an organization
development specialist in the early 1970s, observing that there were no
"schematics" of the organizations we were to develop. And so, in true
technician fashion, I set out to develop them.

"If it appears that the subject's action stabilize a particular
relationship between spot and target, then the cause lies in the subject,
not in the spot or the target." (p.59)

I think the statement above is really profound and I can't for the life of
me figure out how a radical behaviorist would handle it.

"The most important explanatory feature is the reference signal, because
that is what accounts for the reference condition of the controlled
quantity. Without the model and its reference signal, there is no way at
all to account for the reference condition. One can only observe its
apparent existence.
  "This reference condition is exactly what is meant by a goal, and the
fact that it is not connected to any observable physical phenomenon is what
has caused behaviorists to reject the notion of goal-directed behavior."
(p.65)

  "There is a difference, however, between the customary idea of a goal and
the understanding that comes from the control-system model. It is
customarily [sic] to think of a goal as something one sets and then slowly
works toward, perhaps never coming close to achieving it. A control system
could operate that way--the reference signal could possibly be set at a
magnitude to which no available output could bring the perceptual
signal--but in that case the control system would be operating far outside
the control range, and could not perform very well, if at all. It would
simply produce maximum output all of the time regardless of what the
environment did, like a robot toy "walking" with its face against the wall.
Goals can be defined as unreachable, but to do so negates all the fine
organization of the brain." (pp.65-66)

Leading Questions - Chapter 5

1. Will a control system that is 1,000 times as sensitive as another
control system respond to a given disturbance 1,000 times as strongly?
Assume that the less sensitive system has a loop amplification factor of 10
(see pp.63-64).

No, it won't respond 1,000 times as strongly; it will respond more
precisely or, as you state, control will get tighter. If I understand the
math on pages 63-64, you actually give the quantitative answer to the
problem posed in question one. For the system of lesser sensitivity, a
disturbance of 10 pounds will call forth a countereffort of 9.1 pounds. A
system that is 1,000 times more sensitive would have a loop gain of 10,000
and you give the countereffort for such a system as 9.999 pounds.

2. The word "level" in reference level means amount or degree or state of
some given perception. How would you describe your reference level for the
distance between your eyes and this page?

My initial reaction is to describe it as "printed text on page is in
focus." To an observer, including myself, given the way the optometrist
has ground my bi-focals, that would equate to a distance of 12-15 inches.

3. When you unlock a door, what is the reference level for the relationship
between key and keyhole? Is that relationship capable of smooth variation?

The reference level, as I would describe it, is that the key is fully and
firmly inserted in the keyhole. "Smooth variation" in that relationship
occurs in the act of inserting and extracting the key, so I would answer
the second question, "Yes."

4. When you want to hear some music, is your reference level for that
perception set high (violent, piercing, overhwhelming perception of music)
or low (barely audible perception of music) or somewhere between? Can you
think of instances of this whole range of reference levels for "hearing
music" evidence [sic] by other people's behavior?"

Usually, my reference level is somewhere between. On occasion it is high
and on occasion it is low. Sterotypical answers to your second question
might include teen-agers blasting rock and roll on their stereos and lovers
with soft, romantic music in the background. Muzak is a case in point of
the latter, especially on elevators.

5. Can you cause tea to exceed your reference level for sweetness by adding
sugar to it?

Hmm. This is a tricky one. I can sweeten tea to my liking and thus match
that reference level. I can add considerably more sugar and exceed the
level of sweetness I prefer but, in so doing, have caused it to satisfy a
new reference level, namely, "a lot sweeter than I normally take it." So,
my answer to your question is yes, no and maybe. :slight_smile:

6. What is your reference level for the state of another person's
attentiveness when you are talking? How do you correct errors?

My reference level depends on why I'm talking, about what, and to whom.
When addressing a group, I have one reference level; when issuing task
instructions, I have another; and when chatting at lunch, yet a third.
Generally speaking, I don't really control for attentiveness but for the
appearance of attentiveness, which I infer from obervable phenomena such as
eye contact, other nonverbals, questions, note-taking, etc. I correct
errors (or maintain attentiveness) by way of asking questions, referring
questions asked to others present, by varying my pace of delivery, etc.
I also "correct errors" by making statements such as, "Excuse me, let me
finish what I was saying, please." The possibilities are endless (which is
a figure of speech, of course).

7. Someone says, "You're not listening to me." If that statement is false,
what error is created, and relative to what reference level of perception?
If the statement is true, what error, etc? If you respond at all, does
that not imply an error?

If the statement is false, a couple of quick possibilities. The person has
misread my paying attention cues or the person has detected something
indicating I don't understand what has been said and has jumped to my not
paying attention as the cause or explanation. In either case, for me, the
error that has been created is an error in the quality of communications
and any action on my part will likely be aimed at clearing up what is a
misunderstanding.

If the statement is true, a couple of different possibilities. I've been
"caught" so to speak, that is, feigning attention but not successfully or I
was distracted or drifting off down other thought avenues. If I've been
"caught," I'll likely focus myself (for a while at least). If I've been
drifting off or distracted, I'll make a conscious effort to pay attention.

I think any time you're being active (overtly or covertly), you're
operating on errors. No error, no response, is the way I understand PCT.
However, just as a gun mount oscillates or "hunts" around the point of
correspondence, I don't think perceptions are ever perfectly aligned with
reference levels and then stay that way. We human beings are always
oscillating or hunting around the point of correspondence between our
perceptions and our reference conditions. However, in the case you offer
up, the "error" created for many members of our culture would be one of
being rude or disrespectful and most of us would act to correct that,
perhaps by apologizing and almost certainly by changing our outwardly
observable behavior.

8. Why is a statement like "Egg production was much less in 1920 than it is
today" a conversation stopper? Does it call for any response at all?

Well, the fact that you see it as a conversation stopper and I don't,
probably explains a lot about me. I don't see why it's a conversation
stopper. It would and did in fact arouse my curiosity. Why, I would want
to know, was that comment made? What prompted offering up that tidbit of
information? Is it even true? I don't know if it calls for a response or
not but it sure triggered a number of reactions on my part. You'll have to
explain this one to me.

9. Does the term error in feedback theory imply a value judgment? What
would happen if all error signals were arbitrarily and permanently set to
zero in the brain?

Error, as you note in Chapter 5 doesn't imply a value judgment; however,
the establishment of at least some reference conditions implies some value
judgments or preferences. I assume that if all error signals were set to
zero that we'd be dead in short order. All internal systems would stop.

10. Can your sense of self-esteem be a controlled quantity? What are some
means of controlling it?

I certainly believe it can and, for most people, is a controlled quantity.
The means of controlling it are words and deeds, the things we say and do,
as well as the things we encourage, accept, oppose, tolerate, resist, and
fight. "Self-esteem" as a reference signal, the neural current thing, is
probably a computed signal, the result of many smaller signals having to do
with components of self-esteem (e.g., integrity, honesty, fairness, candor,
courage, etc.). These, too exist as reference conditions and have
corresponding reference signals that are probably in turn made up of still
finer-grained reference conditions and corresponding signals. All this
leads quickly to a gazillion error signals that are impossible to sort out
in anything remotely resembling a rational, analytical fashion and so I,
like countless other human beings, simply go around behaving and trying to
make the best of things. :slight_smile:

Gee, you lucky list members, I have five chapters under my belt and only 12
more to go. The end of your agony is at hand. Rejoice.

And have a happy, prosperous and productive New Year...

Regards,

Fred Nickols
Distance Consulting
http://home.att.net/~nickols/distance.htm
nickols@worldnet.att.net
(609) 490-0095

[From Bill Powers (990105.1437 MST)]

Fred Nickols (990101.1545 EST)--

Leading Questions - Chapter 5

1. Will a control system that is 1,000 times as sensitive as another
control system respond to a given disturbance 1,000 times as strongly?
Assume that the less sensitive system has a loop amplification factor of 10
(see pp.63-64).

No, it won't respond 1,000 times as strongly; it will respond more
precisely or, as you state, control will get tighter. If I understand the
math on pages 63-64, you actually give the quantitative answer to the
problem posed in question one. For the system of lesser sensitivity, a
disturbance of 10 pounds will call forth a countereffort of 9.1 pounds. A
system that is 1,000 times more sensitive would have a loop gain of 10,000
and you give the countereffort for such a system as 9.999 pounds.

Correct. Not greater action, but smaller error. That's an A+.

2. The word "level" in reference level means amount or degree or state of
some given perception. How would you describe your reference level for the
distance between your eyes and this page?

My initial reaction is to describe it as "printed text on page is in
focus." To an observer, including myself, given the way the optometrist
has ground my bi-focals, that would equate to a distance of 12-15 inches.

Yeah, you're probably right about the focus variable being the real
controlled variable. But you also hold the book at some habitual distance
from your eyes, so that is also a possibility -- and I did ask about distance.

3. When you unlock a door, what is the reference level for the relationship
between key and keyhole? Is that relationship capable of smooth variation?

The reference level, as I would describe it, is that the key is fully and
firmly inserted in the keyhole. "Smooth variation" in that relationship
occurs in the act of inserting and extracting the key, so I would answer
the second question, "Yes."

I agree, but it wasn't a very good question, was it?

4. When you want to hear some music, is your reference level for that
perception set high (violent, piercing, overhwhelming perception of music)
or low (barely audible perception of music) or somewhere between? Can you
think of instances of this whole range of reference levels for "hearing
music" evidence [sic] by other people's behavior?"

Usually, my reference level is somewhere between. On occasion it is high
and on occasion it is low. Sterotypical answers to your second question
might include teen-agers blasting rock and roll on their stereos and lovers
with soft, romantic music in the background. Muzak is a case in point of
the latter, especially on elevators.

Yeah. By this time the answers are all too obvious.

5. Can you cause tea to exceed your reference level for sweetness by adding
sugar to it?

Hmm. This is a tricky one. I can sweeten tea to my liking and thus match
that reference level. I can add considerably more sugar and exceed the
level of sweetness I prefer but, in so doing, have caused it to satisfy a
new reference level, namely, "a lot sweeter than I normally take it."

A reference level is not a _description_; it's a _prescription_. The tea
would be "a lot sweeter than you normally take it," as you say, but I
venture that it would be a lot sweeter than you _want_ it if you add, say,
a cup of sugar to a cup of tea.

6. What is your reference level for the state of another person's
attentiveness when you are talking? How do you correct errors?

My reference level depends on why I'm talking, about what, and to whom.
When addressing a group, I have one reference level; when issuing task
instructions, I have another; and when chatting at lunch, yet a third.
Generally speaking, I don't really control for attentiveness but for the
appearance of attentiveness, which I infer from obervable phenomena such as
eye contact, other nonverbals, questions, note-taking, etc. I correct
errors (or maintain attentiveness) by way of asking questions, referring
questions asked to others present, by varying my pace of delivery, etc.
I also "correct errors" by making statements such as, "Excuse me, let me
finish what I was saying, please." The possibilities are endless (which is
a figure of speech, of course).

OK, OK, the question was stupid enough to merit a fussbudget answer.

7. Someone says, "You're not listening to me." If that statement is false,
what error is created, and relative to what reference level of perception?
If the statement is true, what error, etc? If you respond at all, does
that not imply an error?

If the statement is false, a couple of quick possibilities. The person has
misread my paying attention cues or the person has detected something
indicating I don't understand what has been said and has jumped to my not
paying attention as the cause or explanation. In either case, for me, the
error that has been created is an error in the quality of communications
and any action on my part will likely be aimed at clearing up what is a
misunderstanding.

If the statement is true, a couple of different possibilities. I've been
"caught" so to speak, that is, feigning attention but not successfully or I
was distracted or drifting off down other thought avenues. If I've been
"caught," I'll likely focus myself (for a while at least). If I've been
drifting off or distracted, I'll make a conscious effort to pay attention.

All good observations, and more than the question deserved.

I think any time you're being active (overtly or covertly), you're
operating on errors. No error, no response, is the way I understand PCT.
However, just as a gun mount oscillates or "hunts" around the point of
correspondence, I don't think perceptions are ever perfectly aligned with
reference levels and then stay that way.

The "hunting" myth got started back when people didn't know how to
stabilize control systems very well. Any gun control system you could find
today would not demonstrate enough error for you to detect with the naked
eye, and would certainly not show any spontaneous _periodic_ errors. It's
perfectluy possible for a control system to come to a steady state in which
all variables are constant.

8. Why is a statement like "Egg production was much less in 1920 than it is
today" a conversation stopper? Does it call for any response at all?

Well, the fact that you see it as a conversation stopper and I don't,
probably explains a lot about me.

Again, I was reaching for it in these questions. What I had in mind was "no
error, no response." A true statement doesn't call for any comment to
correct it ... but forget it. Give me a D on making up questions.

9. Does the term error in feedback theory imply a value judgment? What
would happen if all error signals were arbitrarily and permanently set to
zero in the brain?

Error, as you note in Chapter 5 doesn't imply a value judgment; however,
the establishment of at least some reference conditions implies some value
judgments or preferences. I assume that if all error signals were set to
zero that we'd be dead in short order. All internal systems would stop.

True, but the word "error" in "error signal" still isn't a value judgment.
It just means a difference (between perception and reference). If you try
to give the wrong answer to a question and accidently give the right
answer, you will experience an error signal.

10. Can your sense of self-esteem be a controlled quantity? What are some
means of controlling it?

I certainly believe it can and, for most people, is a controlled quantity.

Agree. The question could have been re-stated: "Your sense of self-esteem
can be a controlled quantity, right?" A suggestion stated as a question,
otherwise known as a rhetorical question.

Best,

Bill P.

[From Fred Nickols (990106.2019)]--

Bill Powers (990105.1437 MST)]

Fred Nickols (990101.1545 EST)--
2. The word "level" in reference level means amount or degree or state of
some given perception. How would you describe your reference level for
the distance between your eyes and this page?

My initial reaction is to describe it as "printed text on page is in
focus." To an observer, including myself, given the way the optometrist
has ground my bi-focals, that would equate to a distance of 12-15 inches.

Yeah, you're probably right about the focus variable being the real
controlled variable. But you also hold the book at some habitual distance
from your eyes, so that is also a possibility -- and I did ask about
distance.

I'll dispute that. I don't hold my book at some habitual
distance from my eyes. I hold it at the focal length for
the glasses I'm wearing. I have glasses of three different
prescription strengths. For various reasons, I wear each
of the three from time to time. I also read while wearing
each of the three. The distance varies in each case.

Regards,

Fred Nickols
Distance Consulting
http://home.att.net/~nickols/distance.htm
nickols@worldnet.att.net
(609) 490-0095

Bill Powers (990105.1437 MST)

Fred Nickols (990101.1545 EST)--

5. Can you cause tea to exceed your reference level for sweetness by
adding sugar to it?

Hmm. This is a tricky one. I can sweeten tea to my liking and thus
match that reference level. I can add considerably more sugar and exceed
the level of sweetness I prefer but, in so doing, have caused it to
satisfy a new reference level, namely, "a lot sweeter than I normally
take it."

Bill P...
A reference level is not a _description_; it's a _prescription_. The tea
would be "a lot sweeter than you normally take it," as you say, but I
venture that it would be a lot sweeter than you _want_ it if you add, say,
a cup of sugar to a cup of tea.

Okay; but does a reference condition have to be precise or,
better yet, absolute? Can I not set a reference condition
that is relative to some existing reference condition (e.g.,
"sweeter than I ordinarily like it"?). If so, it wouldn't
make any difference if I overdid it by two teaspoons or two
cups of sugar--the reference condition, specified as some
kind of threshhold level instead of a fixed value, would be
satisfied.

Fred...

I think any time you're being active (overtly or covertly), you're
operating on errors. No error, no response, is the way I understand PCT.
However, just as a gun mount oscillates or "hunts" around the point of
correspondence, I don't think perceptions are ever perfectly aligned with
reference levels and then stay that way.

Bill P...

The "hunting" myth got started back when people didn't know how to
stabilize control systems very well. Any gun control system you could find
today would not demonstrate enough error for you to detect with the naked
eye, and would certainly not show any spontaneous _periodic_ errors. It's
perfectluy possible for a control system to come to a steady state in
which all variables are constant.

I'll dispute the first part of this. "Hunting" wasn't visible
to the naked eye in my time but it was detectable with something
like an oscillscope or a VTVM (vacuum tube voltmeter). I could
look at the ordered position and the actual position on a dual
trace oscilloscope and the actual position could be lagging or
leading the ordered position if the ordered position was changing,
or the actual position could be "hunting" about the ordered
position if the actual position remained steady. I'll also agree
with the second part. If the ordered position remained steady
long enough, the actual position would come to rest, too. This
was true as late as 1974, when last I had my hands on fire control
systems.

Regards,

Fred Nickols
Distance Consulting
http://home.att.net/~nickols/distance.htm
nickols@worldnet.att.net
(609) 490-0095

[From Bill Powers (990107.0028 MST)]

Fred Nickols (990101.1545 EST)--

Bill P...
A reference level is not a _description_; it's a _prescription_. The tea
would be "a lot sweeter than you normally take it," as you say, but I
venture that it would be a lot sweeter than you _want_ it if you add, say,
a cup of sugar to a cup of tea.

Okay; but does a reference condition have to be precise or,
better yet, absolute?

I would say yes. It is a signal having a certain magnitude. It can't
simultaneously have any other magnitude: it is exactly and precisely what
it is.

Can I not set a reference condition
that is relative to some existing reference condition (e.g.,
"sweeter than I ordinarily like it"?).

That would be a reference condition for a relationship, not for the amount
of sweetness (at the sensation level). And as you describe it, it would be
a _logical_ relationship (greater-than) which can have only two values,
true or false. It is the perception, not the reference signal, that stands
for the logical variable "greater-than". The reference signal would then
represent one of the values that logical variable can have: 1 or 0. Either
greater-than, or not-greater-than.

If you think of control at the sensation-level, it is obvious that one can
put enough sugar in a cup of tea to make the amount of the sensation exceed
one's reference level for it.

Best,

Bill P.

[From Rupert Young (980119.1930 UT)]

Can we go back a bit ...?

Fred Nickols (990101.1545 EST)

1. Will a control system that is 1,000 times as sensitive as another
control system respond to a given disturbance 1,000 times as strongly?
Assume that the less sensitive system has a loop amplification factor of 10
(see pp.63-64).

No, it won't respond 1,000 times as strongly; it will respond more
precisely or, as you state, control will get tighter. If I understand the
math on pages 63-64, you actually give the quantitative answer to the
problem posed in question one. For the system of lesser sensitivity, a
disturbance of 10 pounds will call forth a countereffort of 9.1 pounds. A
system that is 1,000 times more sensitive would have a loop gain of 10,000
and you give the countereffort for such a system as 9.999 pounds.

I keep missing this point. From the usual equation o = k * e (appendix of
BCP) or o = o + k*e then as the gain (k) increases so does the output
resulting in oscillations not tighter control. What have I got wrong ?

Regards,
Rupert

[From Bill Powers (990119.1609 MST)]

Rupert Young (980119.1930 UT)--

1. Will a control system that is 1,000 times as sensitive as another
control system respond to a given disturbance 1,000 times as strongly?
Assume that the less sensitive system has a loop amplification factor of 10
(see pp.63-64).

No, it won't respond 1,000 times as strongly; it will respond more
precisely or, as you state, control will get tighter.

I keep missing this point. From the usual equation o = k * e (appendix of
BCP) or o = o + k*e then as the gain (k) increases so does the output
resulting in oscillations not tighter control. What have I got wrong ?

Use the algebraic equation for this one.

o = k*e
e = r - p
p = o + d

solve for o:

o = k*(r - (o + d)), or
o = k*r - k*o - k*d, or

o = k*(r - d)/(1+k)

As the gain increases, k/(1+k) approaches 1, so o approaches an asymptote
at (r - d). At some very high gain, instability will set in, but this can
occur at such a large gain that o has essentially ceased to increase with k.

Now solve for e:

e = r - (k*e + d), or
e = r - k*e - d, or

e = (r - d)/(1+k)

So e simply decreases as k increases. You can see that with e decreasing
inversely with k, there is no way that o can increase proportionally to k,
since o = k*e.

···

---------------------------------------------------------
With a pure integrating output (your second choice above), it's hard to
define "gain" realistically, since for any error at all, the output will
just keep increasing. However, the output will increase until p = r, at
which point the output will be equal and opposite to the disturbance and
the error will be zero. The error eventually goes to zero for any control
system with a purely integrating output -- it just gets there faster when k
is larger. Increasing k does not increase the final value of output,
because that value is always equal to the disturbance, no matter how long
it takes to get there.

No real systems, especially biological ones, contain ideal pure
integrators. All integrators are leaky, which means that while they do have
a lag in response, their steady-state output gain is finite, so they behave
in the steady state according to the algebraic solutions above.

Best,

Bill P.

[From Rupert Young (990131.1730 UT)]

Bill Powers (990119.1609 MST)

Use the algebraic equation for this one.

Thanks, but I'm still a bit confused. I may have been misreading your
original statement, paraphased below by Fred.

For the system of lesser sensitivity, a disturbance of 10 pounds will

call forth a countereffort of 9.1 pounds.

A system that is 1,000 times more sensitive would have a loop gain of

10,000 and you give the countereffort

for such a system as 9.999 pounds.

I can read this a couple of ways, (I assume ref=0)

1) The 9.1 pounds, above, is the countereffort in the first iteration of a
discrete control system.

2) The 9.1 pounds is the force that the control system settles on. Though
this doesn't seem right as there will still be error.

I understand the equations (more or less) but the problem I have is that
when I actually implement a control system the larger the gain the less
stable it is, resulting in oscillations.

My email response has low gain at the moment as I started a proper job at
the beginning of the month and mainly check my email at the weekend.

Regards,
Rupert

···

------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------
                 Software Technologies Corporation
        Mizuno House, 612, Reading Rd, Winnersh, Berkshire RG41 5HE
Email: ryoung@stc.com, Phone: +44(0)118 989 6830, Fax: +44(0)118 989 6801
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--------------------------

[From Bill Powers (90201.0626)]

From Rupert Young (990131.1730 UT) --

For the system of lesser sensitivity, a disturbance of 10 pounds will

call forth a countereffort of 9.1 pounds.

A system that is 1,000 times more sensitive would have a loop gain of

10,000 and you give the countereffort

for such a system as 9.999 pounds.

I can read this a couple of ways, (I assume ref=0)

1) The 9.1 pounds, above, is the countereffort in the first iteration of a
discrete control system.

2) The 9.1 pounds is the force that the control system settles on. Though
this doesn't seem right as there will still be error.

All real control systems contain a nonzero error signal when they come to
equilibrium with a steady disturbance. It's the error signal that produces
the output that maintains the equilibrium state.

Your confusion arises partly from thinking about control systems with a
pure integrator in the output function. There are no pure integrators in
nature, and emphatically not in a nervous system. Real output functions act
like an amplifier with a finite gain and some integrating process that
slows all transitions from out output level to another.

The algebraic equations and their solutions show what happens when we
ignore how long it takes to reach equilibrium and look only at the final
steady state. The algebra _accurately_ describes the steady state reached
after the reference signal and the disturbance are set to specific values
and then remain constant. For changing reference signals and disturbances,
no steady state is reached and you have to use the differential equations
to describe properly what the system will do.

I understand the equations (more or less) but the problem I have is that
when I actually implement a control system the larger the gain the less
stable it is, resulting in oscillations.

That's true only if you fail to stabilize the system. If you start with a
system having a leaky integrator as an output function, you will find that
below a certain gain, the system will be stable (approach a final steady
state without overshooting). If you want the final steady state to be close
to zero error, you have to raise the gain. But if you also want to avoid
oscillations, you have to change the integration component to make the
open-loop response slower. This will not much affect the closed-loop
response time, because the slowing is offset by the increased gain.

If you change ONLY the gain, without also adjusting the slowing factor, you
will indeed run into oscillations if you raise the gain enough. But that is
not how control systems are designed in real life. You adjust the gain to
get the error as low as you need it to be, and you adjust the slowing to
achieve stability at the value of gain you have chosen.

There are more complicated cases, but the same basic approach is involved:
adjust the gain to get the error as low as needed, then adjust the
parameters that stabilize the system.

Best,

Bill P.

···

My email response has low gain at the moment as I started a proper job at
the beginning of the month and mainly check my email at the weekend.

Regards,
Rupert

------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------
                Software Technologies Corporation
       Mizuno House, 612, Reading Rd, Winnersh, Berkshire RG41 5HE
Email: ryoung@stc.com, Phone: +44(0)118 989 6830, Fax: +44(0)118 989 6801
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------