Leakage

[From Bjorn Simonsen (2008.02.10.18:35 EST)]

Rick

I have studied once more your essay about Leakage in More Mindreadings. I will get T.C.Powers’ book in a month, I guess.
May I ask some questions?
May Leakage be unsold produced products, unsold and maculated products?
Is it correct to say thet Autoinflation are the consumers money, earlier payd as tax to the govenment and the government printing new money and putting them on the marked?

I am trying to use T.C.Powers’ sircular flowing and your H. Economicus to study just oil production.
Bio-Oil production and fosile oil production take the place to The Composite producer. I will use leakage as a persent part and Autoinflation, but I wil also put money as subsidy to Bio Oil producers. More and more subsidy to them. Then, maybe fosile oil producers has to lower their price. I hope to find how much subsidy that must be used before focile oil producers have to stop producing and start bio oil production. Am I going far away?

Is it possible to get download your H. Economicus?

Bjorn

[From Rick Marken (2008.02.10.2225)]

Bjorn Simonsen (2008.02.10.18:35 EST)]

Rick

I have studied once more your essay about Leakage in More Mindreadings. I
will get T.C.Powers' book in a month, I guess.
May I ask some questions?
May Leakage be unsold produced products, unsold and maculated products?

I don't know what a "maculated" product is; you must have misspelled
the intended word. I don't think unsold products are "leakage".
According to T.C. Powers, leakage is income to the composite producer
that is not returned to the composite consumer. The size of inventory
at any particular time is influenced by the amount of leakage; the
composite consumer cannot purchase all that was produced if it can't
afford it due to leakage. So a build up of inventory is a temporary
symptom of leakage but is not itself leakage.

Is it correct to say thet Autoinflation are the consumers money, earlier
payd as tax to the govenment and the government printing new money and
putting them on the marked?

I don't think taxes are involved. It ultimately must come down to the
government printing money, though. But the basis of autoinflation is
that the composite producer has to raise prices on what it has
produced in order to be able to collect what can't be collected from
composite consumer at current prices due to leakage.

I am trying to use T.C.Powers' sircular flowing and your H. Economicus to
study just oil production.
Bio-Oil production and fosile oil production take the place to The Composite
producer. I will use leakage as a persent part and Autoinflation, but I wil
also put money as subsidy to Bio Oil producers. More and more subsidy to
them. Then, maybe fosile oil producers has to lower their price. I hope to
find how much subsidy that must be used before focile oil producers have to
stop producing and start bio oil production. Am I going far away?

Sounds a bit far away, yes. I don't see how bio-oil and fossil oil are
linked as composite producers and consumers.

Is it possible to get download your H. Economicus?

The paper is at http://www.mindreadings.com/HMod.pdf

The model is on my other computer. Is that what you want?

Best

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com

[From Bjorn Simonsen (2008.02.11.20:00 EUST)]

[From Rick Marken (2008.02.10.2225)]

I don’t know what a “maculated” product is; you must have misspelled
the intended word. I don’t think unsold products are “leakage”.
I was too quick. I ment obliterated/destroyed products or services. You answered the question well enough to me.

Is it possible to get download your H. Economicus?

The model is on my other computer. Is that what you want?

Yes if it is OK, I think upon your spreadsheet model. I have trouble with the one I produce in PowerSim. If it is not OK. That’s also OK.

bjorn

[From Rick Marken (2008.02.11.2200)]

Bjorn Simonsen (2008.02.11.20:00 EUST)

>The model is on my other computer. Is that what you want?

Yes if it is OK, I think upon your spreadsheet model. I have trouble with
the one I produce in PowerSim. If it is not OK. That's also OK.

Sure it's OK. I have several old versions and they are very poorly
documented. But I'll send some to you tomorrow.

Best

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com

[From Mike Acree (970220.0731)]

Having heard Bill talking about his father's work on economics over
lunch in Durango 3 years ago, I was tremendously excited to see Rick's
post a couple of weeks ago indicating that his father's book was out,
and rushed to order it. Being promiscuously attracted to almost any
suggestion that my thought isn't radical enough, and pretty ignorant of
economics moreover (I remember little of Samuelson from 32 years ago
except the implausibility of his lighthouse argument), I was looking
forward to having my thinking turned upside down, as it had been with
B:CP. Unfortunately, I was disappointed to find myself having a lot of
trouble with his concept and arguments from the beginning, and the
conclusions he ultimately reached bizarre without even an aftertaste of
plausibility. It actually looked to me as though the author should have
read his son's book first. Since I gather others on the Net have found
it more convincing than I, I'm posting my confusion in case someone can
straighten me out.

Bill has nicely emphasized the hazards of looking at infinitesimal time
slices in real physical systems, which take time to respond. TCP argues
explicitly that the time lag we all experience between income and
spending disappears at the macro level, but I haven't yet seen why that
would be true, even given that spending and saving are going on
throughout the economy at the same time. In fact it looks to me as
though, for those periods of relatively constant growth, if we matched
income at any point with spending a little over a year later, the
leakage would disappear. Much of what an economy is about is
information flow, which takes time, so some slosh is necessary for it to
work. (It is common, in this age of the telephone and fax, to think of
information flow as practically instantaneous, but at the same time that
communication has become more rapid, our horizons have expanded. We may
not have to ride to the next town to find out what prices are there, but
we routinely shop by phone for stuff from all over; and it takes some of
us awhile to find out what's out there, despite the best efforts of
advertisers.) Powers might think the rental housing market in San
Francisco ideal since there is 99% occupancy (no "hoarding" of rental
units whatever), but it is in fact a prospective renter's nightmare. On
the other hand, the information flow can be agonizingly slow, as in the
market for marital partners. Powers would presumably consider me guilty
of hoarding for having been single for 12 years, and would exhort me to
marry somebody--anybody--as long as I did it _quickly_.

Leakage, in short, appears to me to be just an artifact of looking at
time slices. And I notice Powers has great difficulty in identifying
the specific sources of leakage. He acknowledges that savings which are
invested (e.g., ordinary savings accounts, which banks invest) don't
constitute leakage. He may be closer in referring to bad loans to Third
World countries, but even there I'm not sure. The reason big banks have
made so many such loans is that they were subsidized by the government.
Wall Street bankers were the major supporters of the Panama Canal
Treaty, which gave Panama the money to repay those loans, as a gift from
American taxpayers--one of those maneuvers, as Powers might agree, that
enriches the rich at the unchosen expense of the rest of us. So, though
I join Powers in objecting to such loans, I'm not sure they're a
significant source of leakage. That leaves the source he rails against
most, which is people stashing cash in the basement, but I think the
only source for this image is Uncle Scrooge comics. That is one thing
for sure that the rich don't do; they typically have all their money
working for them at a high rate of return. Some of them do hoard gold
as a hedge against economic catastrophe, but I think this would be hard
to discriminate macroeconomically from owning jewelry or art objects or
dinnerware. Whatever actual cash people have hidden in mattresses I
suspect is in rather small amounts, and doesn't add up to a hill of
beans.

But Powers does consider dynamic aspects of the economy, and here where
I think his analysis goes wrong is in thoroughly confusing goods with
dollars. He actually speaks of businesses "issuing" dollars as though
they were the Treasury Department. He also defines the "money supply"
explicitly as "the output of the composite producer." He doesn't
acknowledge anything in his theory which would be limited to fiat money,
but I think it might be instructive if he tried the same analysis on a
hypothetical country with a 100% gold standard, where all prices were
denominated in ounces. (For different reasons, it might also be
instructive to analyze the economies of Sweden and New Zealand over the
same time period he studies in the U.S. He thinks growth is automatic
given natural resources and national character; evidently the reason the
Soviet economy functioned so poorly, given its vast resources, is that
it is part of the Russian character to drink a quart of vodka every
day.) As it is, he doesn't leave himself a way of distinguishing the
object from the measuring stick.

I think this confusion probably makes possible his bizarre conclusion
about inflation. Inflation, as a rise in the _overall_ price level, can
only result from an increase in the supply of money relative to the
supply of goods. On a gold standard, that tends not to happen, except
locally around gold rushes. That, together with increasing efficiency
of production, is why Powers sees the price level falling by 50% during
the 19th century. Leakage, as a loss of currency from circulation,
would virtually by definition have to be _de_flationary; fewer dollars
bidding for the same goods will lower prices. Powers totally ignores
the real reason for inflation in the 20th century, which is expansion of
the supply of money and credit by the Fed (we have a common enemy
there!), and blames labor unions instead. I may be no more a partisan
of labor unions than he is, but there is no way they could be blamed for
inflation. If they manage to win more money for themselves, somebody
else necessarily has less (government action and counterfeiting aside).
Typically, as he observes, the extra cost of production is simply passed
along to consumers, who have less to spend on other things. That may or
may not be a good thing, but it is not inflation (except locally, again,
in the company town, and that only for awhile).

The one type of leakage that seems to me real, in terms of loss of
purchasing power, is what he calls rho. Oddly, it functions in his
system like an error term or fudge factor, what's left over to make the
equation balance.

It's when Powers gets to solutions that I think he needs to understand
PCT; he seems to forget all about people's resistance to control. His
surtax on surplus income is going to yield approximately 0 just because
nobody's going to leave any money lying around that meets his
requirements for confiscation. That might actually be all right with
him, although he wants to "approve" the ways people invest their money.
That would mean they would have to disguise their investments, but
fortunately people already have a lot of practice at that from
disguising campaign contributions since legal limits were imposed some
years ago. A few years ago Congress did pass a surtax on luxury items,
but it forgot, as usual, about what Milton Friedman calls the "invisible
foot" principle. It was a minor nuisance to the rich to postpone
purchase of a yacht, but the law did have the effect of throwing out of
work many of the people who were making a modest income from the
manufacture and sale of yachts.

Similarly, when Powers wants to impose a law on "large" corporations
assuring employees their "right" to dividends, it is safe to predict a
lot of breakups into smaller corporations. Of course, legislators,
foreseeing that, may prohibit that, too, which may simply force them out
of business, and leave employees much worse off. The more important
part of what Powers forgets, in fact, is that there will be losses as
well as dividends to be shared. Robert Nozick pointed out some years
ago that the UAW, in its pension fund, had more than enough money to
start its own auto company, so that the workers could be free of
oppression by management forever. So why have they never been tempted?
Presumably because they knew they would have to give up being
(partially) shielded from losses as well as dividends.

Powers expresses indignation at the idea of "enriching citizen A at the
expense of citizen B," but that's only because he wants to enrich B at
the expense of A. He sees large disparities in holdings intrinsically
as "unconscionable maldistribution." But suppose that somewhow, at some
point, everybody happened to have equal wealth. Then a rock star is
going to come along and give a national tour, and a million people will
scramble to pay $10 for tickets. That makes them $10 poorer and the
star $10 million richer. If he knows the "excess" would be taken in
tax, he wouldn't make the tour, and both he and his fans would be
frustrated. But on a smaller scale the same thing is going on
constantly with all our market choices. The only way to guarantee any
particular pattern of holdings as an outcome is continual forcible
intervention in all transactions. That would take a police state, and
it doesn't sound like nearly as much fun to me as a voluntary society,
with justice a matter of how things were acquired rather than how much
you ended up with in relation to somebody else.

All in all, Powers' message about spending seems an odd one particularly
for these times of record bankruptcies from credit-card debts. There
are also some interesting collisions of values in the book. He writes
as someone might who had both one liberal and one conservative parent,
and both older and younger siblings. Most of his values are clearly
liberal, in the contemporary sense, but he also virtually exhorts us to
"buy American," and he seems to regard strikers as unruly kids who ought
to be disciplined. He is keenly jealous of anybody getting a bigger
piece, but at the same time very protective toward those who are more
vulnerable. I don't think he recognizes how patronizing and
condescending his attitudes toward the latter are, when he writes that
saving by the rich is robbing other people of their dignity and
self-respect. My parents grew up as poor as anybody in the Depression
(literally), but they would have been revolted by the implication that
their dignity and self-respect were at the mercy of the rich! I have an
image (pure fantasy, of course) of a young Powers determined not to
exploit his younger sibs the way he was exploited, but also feeling very
self-righteous about his iron self-discipline. Bill has written
eloquently, of course, about the problems of efforts at self-control--as
well as about the rigidity to which a lifetime of such efforts leads.

These kinds of remarks (about family background) can easily be offensive
if they are taken, reductionistically, as implying that they were
sufficient for understanding how Powers arrived at his theory. It would
not detract from his accomplishment, for me, if all of it happened to be
true; but what excites me about his work is more the opposite: I love
the idea of someone undertaking a new field of study and rethinking it
from the ground up--in his retirement! If I don't agree with him--and
my reaction is not unlike Heilbroner's, a mixture of sympathy and
curiosity--it hardly matters. I love the feistiness of it!

Best to all,
Mike

[From Bill Powers (970220.0845 MST)]

Mike Acree (970220.0731)--

As a son who has never got along with his father very well, I could agree
with a lot of what you say about TCP's approach. In particular, I agree that
his recommendations for what to do about various problems tend toward the
dictatorial, and I agree with that reviewer who said they were probably
unconstitutional as well. Further, I agree that "rho leakage" tends to work
like a fudge factor -- there doesn't seem to be any independent way to
measure it, other than by subtracting alpha leakage from the ideal growth
rate. It can only be estimated qualitatively. And there are problems with
the source of money, as you point out, as well as an inadequate treatment of
borrowing (and its relation to the creation of money). And my pet peeve, of
course, is that this way of dealing with macroeconomics leaves out the
battery that drives the circular flow: the reference levels of the consumers
for goods and services.

However, I have never read ANY economic theory that deals with these factors
adequately, as a modeler would deal with them; there is a great deal of
arm-waving in this field, and everybody is convinced, for no good reason
that I can see, that his particular view of economics has to be right.
Everybody's got some axe to grind other than economics, and economic theory
has to bend to fit the agenda.

What got to me about TCP's model is obviously not the above collection of
possible defects, but what he found out about the actual operation of the
economy and how it jibes with the main economic theories he investigated.
Many of the things that economists devoutly believe SHOULD happen DON'T
happen. Consider, for example, your apparently strongly-held conviction that
inflation results from "too much money chasing too few goods." While this
might happen locally in the microeconomy, it is an extremely rare occurrance
at the level of the macroeconomy. According to this view, if inflation
threatens, the way to combat it is to tighten the money supply, reducing the
available money. What happens instead, when the Fed raises interest rates or
mandatorily sells bonds (etc), is that inflation is either unaffected or
INCREASES. This is not what is supposed to happen according to economic
theories, but if you look at the historical record, it is what does happen.

I wrote to the Clinton administration, a couple of years ago, telling them
to LOOK AT THE GODDAMNED DATA (although not in those exact words), and
inform Greenspan that his "anti-inflation" measures don't work. Maybe
someone listened to me -- Greenspan has been uncommonly reluctant to raise
interest rates recently, and he's been remarking how odd it is that even
without monetary restraint, inflation doesn't seem to be a problem just now.
"It is not the policy of the administration to acknowledge specific
suggestions," I was told, but perhaps someone did look at the historical record.

Another sacred cow is the relation between economic growth and investment.
The historical record shows that investment has remained an essentially
constant 20% of total producer income for the past 100 years. This appears
to be the size of the market for investment money, regardless of the state
of the economy. While this much money is required, the availability of more
money for investment would make no difference. If more than tnis amount of
money is available, it just sits in the bank while the bank pays interest on
it (and drives the bank to look for bad loans to make). Or it goes into the
stock market and churns around and around, essentially in storage. The extra
money is changing form, but it's not being spent (aside from commissions)
for goods and services. So it's lost from the circular flow.

TCP says that economic growth is powered by the combination of just two
factors: increases in productivity stemming from human ingenuity, and
increase in population. Nothing else.

Another very important aspect of TCP's approach is the way he treats
composite entities: the composite producer and the composite consumer. A lot
of the mistakes of economic theories have come from trying to extrapolate
from microeconomic relationships to macroeconomic ones. Keynes and his
followers relied on a scenario involving a typical family's economic
life-cycle, and explicitly claimed that to understand the whole economy, all
you had to do was scale up the numbers to the size of the whole population.
This is absolutely the wrong approach to macroeconomics. The composite
consumer consists of people at ALL STAGES of their economic life-cycles,
simultaneously. Keynes thought he had figured out how there can be savings
(investment, deferment of spending) and at the same time an increase in
markets for the new production supposedly made possible by investment. But
on the macro scale this is impossible: what is saved is not spent, and while
one family is busy saving, another is drawing down its savings. The average
rate of savings has to be close to zero in the macroeconomy. If it is not,
if there is a net "savings", that money is simply not being spent to
purchase the product. You can't have it both ways at once, and Keynes' trick
is invalid.

This is what led TCP to see the clearest fact in the historical record. The
amount of money spent on goods and services averages about 7% less than the
income of the composite consumer (Fig. 1-2, p. 14). This shortfall has been
_interpreted_ by economic theorists as representing savings, both personal
and corporate. And they have simply _assumed_ that this 7% "savings," year
in and year out, has gone into investment, powering the economy. That is how
the system is SUPPOSED to work. But as far as I can see from TCP's analysis
of the data, that is not how it DOES work. Fluctuations in the growth rate
of the economy are INVERSELY related to fluctuations in this rate of
"savings." If you interpret this 7% as invested savings, you can only
conclude from the historical record that increased investment reduces the
growth rate. But of course this 7% is not investment: it is leakage, money
lost from the circular flow of macroeconomics. This is a staggering concept,
but I don't see what's wrong with it.

Mary recently found an article reporting that American corporations now have
over 600 billion dollars of undistributed profits saved up, in cash. This is
25% more than the previous year. That is where some of the leakage has been
going. GM alone is sitting on 17 billion dollars. None of that money,
obviously, is being invested, although it represents many years of profits.
If it were needed for investment, it would have been spent on investment,
thus re-entering the circular flow. In this role, by the way, corporations
count as part of the composite consumer. Investment consists of buying goods
and services.

I, too, was bothered by TCP's way of just assuming that whatever money the
composite producer spent was created out of thin air. But I think this is a
lingering problem of mine with confusing micro and macro economics. When
money is borrowed, it is basically created. The composite producer pays for
this service in the form of interest payments, as it pays all other costs of
production -- out of income. So at the macroeconomic level, perhaps it is
true that money becomes available (unless artificially restricted) as necessary.

It is truly difficult to think purely in terms of composite entities. My
father has ranted at me often enough for forgetting the difference, when I
offered criticisms. You can see the sense in TCP's model ONLY if you
remember that everything is in terms of composite effects.

Best,

Bill P.

[From Mike Acree (970221.1608 PST)]

Bill Powers (970220.0845 MST)

Thank you very much for your lengthy and characteristically thoughtful
Instant Re-ply--no way I can match your 14-minute response time (though
I see I egocentrically forgot to insert my time zone).

I have an awkward sense of having started something I can't really
"finish," in the sense that you and TCP point to empirical phenomena
which, on my present understanding, I can't account for (e.g., inflation
following contraction of the money supply); yet those discrepancies
don't suffice to persuade me of the leakage theory (yet; it wouldn't be
the first such unexpected reversal of my thinking). I notice also that
my previous post has already occasioned a complaint about lengthy
economics discussions (Martin Taylor 970220.1410), so perhaps I should
just make a few comments and clarifications here and let it go. (That's
not meant to preclude a reply!)

A subtle but possibly important clarification: I had characterized
inflation as an increase in the supply of money relative to the supply
of goods, not as "too much" money chasing "too few" goods. There's
nothing sacrosanct about any particular overall price level. The evils
of inflation, so far as I can tell, have to do with the unevenness of
its effects through the economy. Those close to political power centers
will know that an increase in the money supply is coming and can take
advantage of existing prices, raise the interest rates they charge,
etc.; those who are hurt are those on fixed incomes, living off passbook
savings, etc.--another case of enriching the rich (which is one
explanation of why inflation is so popular among those governing). But
I think we must be talking about rather different concepts of inflation,
because I don't understand at all your comment that inflation has been
extremely rare in the macroeconomy. If inflation means a rise in the
overall price level, then we've had nothing but inflation for decades,
sometimes more, sometimes less.

I'm sure TCP would accuse me of failing to think at the macro level,
because his claims about that level still don't make sense to me. When
macroanalysis differs from microanalysis, it is typically because new,
quasi-organic unities become apparent at the macro level. But national
boundaries enclose quite arbitrary aggregates. As far as I can tell,
TCP doesn't give any indication why his theory should not apply to the
economies of California or San Francisco. The only relevant
distinctions I can think of are legal rather than economic. At the
national level there are tariffs and numerous regulations prohibiting
various capitalist acts between consenting adults, but the most
important difference is that the fiat money system is defined and
controlled at the federal level. But if the national economy is
essentially a legally defined entity, it is not clear to me why for that
particular aggregate spending and income should add up to 0 at any
particular moment, any more than they should for any other arbitrary
aggregate.

The complexity introduced by our fiat money system is why I have tried
to understand what was going on without that complication. Perhaps TCP
would say that leakage cannot occur by definition in a barter economy if
it means a loss of currency from circulation; but it still seems to me
the consequences he claims for leakage wouldn't result from hoarding
under a 100% gold standard, either. If so, then they have to do
specifically with government manipulation of the money supply. But let
me try a concrete example. Mary mentions (Mary Powers 970220.1743)
Ralph Nader's report that GM is "sitting on" $17 billion. Like Bruce
Gregory (970220.1743), I can't believe it's not earning interest. But
suppose they did just have it stored in a paper bag, which caught fire
and burned. Then (apart from the paper bag and some kitty litter or
landfill) the national economy would still not have lost any goods or
services. GM, it is true, would be $17 billion poorer, and might go out
of business, with considerable resultant dislocations throughout the
economy. But after these are all sorted out, the net result is that we
have the same goods and services as before, with 17 billion fewer
dollars in circulation, and a consequent lowering of prices. The
process of dislocation may have some overall costs (it certainly has
human costs, in terms of stress), but not necessarily: any firm that
would leave $17 billion in a paper bag was due to give way to more
intelligent management. But I don't see any other way that such
"leakage" impoverishes us on a macro level.

You say, "When money is borrowed, it is basically created." I would
say: "It depends." If I borrow $100 (or $100 billion) from you, no
money is created; it's simply in different hands. If member banks
borrow from the Federal Reserve, however, then money typically is
created, just by fiat. That's what I would see as the source of the
loss of purchasing power that TCP calls rho.

"TCP says that economic growth is powered by the combination of just two
factors: increases in productivity stemming from human ingenuity, and
increase in population. Nothing else." I think such an astonishing
view could only have resulted from looking at a single country (which is
what he did). I would think of human ingenuity as having been rather
constant over time and place, and my sense is that the explosion of
economic growth in this country in the 19th century is all out of
proportion to the increase in population. Douglass North contends that
a lot of technology was available centuries ago (e.g., Hero's steam
engine), but didn't have an impact beyond the inventor's household just
because of lack of property rights. The countries that instituted these
saw an explosion of economic growth because of the strong incentives
they provided specifically for applying that human ingenuity to
satisfying other people's wants. The relevance to TCP's analysis of the
U.S. economy is that I think he misses effects of the changing political
climate for business just within this country. Some think tank or other
estimated, for example, the current annual cost of economic regulation
at $600 billion. That seems to me a kind of "leakage" which has been
increasing over time.

Social organization has always seemed to me one of the most interesting
applications of PCT, so naturally I'd love to see you (or someone) put
the "battery" in the economy by interpreting it in terms of reference
levels.

Thanks again.
Mike

[From Bill Powers (970221.1840 MST)]

Mike Acree (970221.1608 PST)--

A subtle but possibly important clarification: I had characterized
inflation as an increase in the supply of money relative to the supply
of goods, not as "too much" money chasing "too few" goods. There's
nothing sacrosanct about any particular overall price level. The evils
of inflation, so far as I can tell, have to do with the unevenness of
its effects through the economy.

According to TCP, there are two added effects of the part of inflation that
is due to leakage: it is inevitably accompanied by increases in unemployment
and by slowing of the rate of economic growth. You have to understand his
equations to see how this works, but it's quite straightforward. All of the
calculations in the book, by the way, are done in constant dollars,
corrected for inflation.

The effect of leakage that TCP calls autoinflation is almost self-evident.
If only 93% of the costs of production (wages and capital income) are
returned to the composite producer in the form of income from sales of goods
and services, then there must be, in addition to the markup required to
sustain capital expenditures, and additional markup of 1/0.93 or 7.5% per
year to maintain production. The markup for capital expenditures is returned
to the economy (the money is spent on goods and services), but that required
to make up for leakage is not. This "autoinflation" may not show up as
actual inflation because the basic economy may be growing fast enough to
offset part of it. But the basic effect is to reduce employment and growth
rate as computed in constant dollars. It's almost like a feedback effect;
instead of seeing the true inflation, what we see are the compensations that
the producer makes to avoid going broke, in the form of lowering production
costs (wages and capital income) and curtailing production to fit the
resulting reduced demand. The composite producer cannot pay more to produce
goods and services than it receives for them, and it cannot pay less,
either, because that pay is the means by which the composite consumer buys
the product.

Those close to political power centers
will know that an increase in the money supply is coming and can take
advantage of existing prices, raise the interest rates they charge,
etc.; those who are hurt are those on fixed incomes, living off passbook
savings, etc.--another case of enriching the rich (which is one
explanation of why inflation is so popular among those governing). But
I think we must be talking about rather different concepts of inflation,
because I don't understand at all your comment that inflation has been
extremely rare in the macroeconomy. If inflation means a rise in the
overall price level, then we've had nothing but inflation for decades,
sometimes more, sometimes less.

The scenario you describe, in which one segment of the population profits at
the expense of others (how else?) is not a macroeconomic phenomenon: it
cannot alter the _overall_ balance or the basic laws of macroeconomics.

The classical explanation for inflation is that demand (operationally
defined in economics as money spent on goods at a given price) exceeds
supply (defined as sales of goods at a given price). That is what almost
never occurs in the macroeconomy, although it can occur in isolated segments
of the microeconomy and in a few other rare circumstances. In fact, demand
is chronically less than supply, because of leakage. There has never been a
time when money spent exceeded the sales of goods (on what would it be
spent?), and indeed there CANNOT BE such a time. All the money that is spent
by the composite consumer is first paid to it as wages or capital income
(which includes distributed profits, interest, dividends, and so on) by the
composite producer, and all the money received by the composite producer
comes from sales of goods and services (remembering that borrowing is simply
a means of obtaining the wherewithal to pay the costs of production, and is
paid for as all services are paid for).

It should be said that in deriving these conclusions, TCP assumes that on
the average, managers will adjust their production levels so that
inventories are neither increasing nor decreasing. Obviously there can be
temporary conditions under which this doesn't apply, but with millions of
businesses being involved, the chances of remarkable fluctations at the
macroeconomic level are small.

But national
boundaries enclose quite arbitrary aggregates. As far as I can tell,
TCP doesn't give any indication why his theory should not apply to the
economies of California or San Francisco.

I think it probably does, if you just include balance of trade as a factor
in leakage (irreversible -- alpha -- or reversible -- rho). In fact I see no
reason that this analysis couldn't be applied even to a town, except that
the sample would be getting so small that the assumptions of statistical
averaging might be violated significantly. The bookkeeping at the
macroeconomic level is far simpler than at the micro level; it's easier to
see the big relationships because most of the details are averaged out.

The only relevant
distinctions I can think of are legal rather than economic. At the
national level there are tariffs and numerous regulations prohibiting
various capitalist acts between consenting adults, but the most
important difference is that the fiat money system is defined and
controlled at the federal level. But if the national economy is
essentially a legally defined entity, it is not clear to me why for that
particular aggregate spending and income should add up to 0 at any
particular moment, any more than they should for any other arbitrary
aggregate.

It's hard to say that the money supply is controlled at the federal level
when the Fed is run by the member banks, in the private sector.

The summation to zero wasn't clear to me, either, until I began to learn how
to think in terms of composite entities. When you ask where the composite
consumer gets the money it spends on goods and services, you find that ALL
of it comes from the composite producer. And when you ask where the
composite producer gets the money it uses to pay the costs of production,
you find that ALL of this income comes from the composite consumer -- except
what is borrowed, essentially, from outside the circular flow through
official banking sources empowered to create money. But borrowing and
repayment go on all the time, simultaneously, so the supply of money changes
only slowly, and generally fits with the overall rate of growth of the
economy. When money is freely available, its supply is an effect, not a
cause, of economic activity. Businesses spend 20% of their income on capital
investment, period, whatever the supply of money may be.

This is basically Say's Law, about which I remember mainly the name, which
Keynes rejected and TCP proved valid.

The complexity introduced by our fiat money system is why I have tried
to understand what was going on without that complication. Perhaps TCP
would say that leakage cannot occur by definition in a barter economy if
it means a loss of currency from circulation; but it still seems to me
the consequences he claims for leakage wouldn't result from hoarding
under a 100% gold standard, either.

If gold is not valuable in itself, and if it's freely available, then the
situation would be unchanged. but if gold is scarce, that would be
equivalent to imposing monetary constraints that prevent the composite
producer from obtaining as much money as needed to pay for as much
production as it could sell. A true gold standard, I would guess, would
suppress the economy. However, people have never had a true gold standard;
there's always been a lot of paper floating around that stands for promises
to pay in gold, usually more gold that actually existed at a given time in
usable form. That's how banking got started.

If so, then they have to do
specifically with government manipulation of the money supply. But let
me try a concrete example. Mary mentions (Mary Powers 970220.1743)
Ralph Nader's report that GM is "sitting on" $17 billion. Like Bruce
Gregory (970220.1743), I can't believe it's not earning interest.

Oh, it probably is earning interest, for GM. However, the principal has not
been invested in the economy: it hasn't been borrowed by someone and then
spent on goods and services. It's a liquid asset against which GM could
write a check at any time. That money isn't circulating, so it's not part of
the macroeconomic circular flow. When large producers start stashing part of
their income instead of paying it out as wages and capital income, they are
removing buying power from the hands of their own (or each others')
customers and thus reducing their own potential income. This is apparently
too subtle a concept for the managers of the composite producer to grasp.

But
suppose they did just have it stored in a paper bag, which caught fire
and burned. Then (apart from the paper bag and some kitty litter or
landfill) the national economy would still not have lost any goods or
services.

Not so. This money could have been paid out as wages and capital income
(which includes distributing profits to owners or shareholders), and that
money would then have been available to purchase a higher output of goods
and services. As long as the stored money is there and might some day be
returned to circulation, it is only rho leakage, which is reversible. But if
it is destroyed, it is alpha leakage and the loss to the economy, in terms
of irrecoverably lost production, is permanent. The best the economy can
then do is recover its former growth rate, but it can never catch up to
where it would have been without the loss. The rosy future is postponed.

GM, it is true, would be $17 billion poorer, and might go out
of business, with considerable resultant dislocations throughout the
economy. But after these are all sorted out, the net result is that we
have the same goods and services as before, with 17 billion fewer
dollars in circulation, and a consequent lowering of prices.

This is not all that happens. If prices are lowered, then the producer has
less income to pay for production, and wages and capital income must go down
as well. The general choice, made by unions and management alike, is to
lower wage costs by eliminating workers rather than lowering hourly wages,
although both are done wherever possible. Productivity is increased not by
increasing production but by paying less for the same or less production.
Production, in terms of actual goods and services, declines. And because of
fierce battles between labor and management, the relative share of wage
income versus capital income tends to change only slightly and very slowly,
so _all_ buying power is reduced.

The
process of dislocation may have some overall costs (it certainly has
human costs, in terms of stress), but not necessarily: any firm that
would leave $17 billion in a paper bag was due to give way to more
intelligent management. But I don't see any other way that such
"leakage" impoverishes us on a macro level.

You have to work through the equations in the model. Leakage simply
subtracts from the exponent in the growth rate, directly. It can even result
in a negative growth rate, a recession. It can have large effects on the
product of number of people employed times average wage. These
"dislocations" have a staggering human cost, not the least of which is to
find your Big Mac being served to you by a person with a PhD in engineering.

You say, "When money is borrowed, it is basically created." I would
say: "It depends." If I borrow $100 (or $100 billion) from you, no
money is created; it's simply in different hands. If member banks
borrow from the Federal Reserve, however, then money typically is
created, just by fiat. That's what I would see as the source of the
loss of purchasing power that TCP calls rho.

Yes, I agree. Private borrowing doesn't change the circular flow; it just
moves money from one person's hands to another's. It's only borrowing
through banks, which are legally allowed to create new money up to the
limits set by reserve requirements, that increases the money available for
circulation in the macroeconomic sense. And restricting this money
inevitably slows the rate of growth and increases unemployment.

"TCP says that economic growth is powered by the combination of just two
factors: increases in productivity stemming from human ingenuity, and
increase in population. Nothing else." I think such an astonishing
view could only have resulted from looking at a single country (which is
what he did). I would think of human ingenuity as having been rather
constant over time and place, and my sense is that the explosion of
economic growth in this country in the 19th century is all out of
proportion to the increase in population.

Human ingenuity tends to build on itself exponentially; new developments
make even more new developments possible. But this is not a result of
monetary investment -- it is a result of the growth of knowledge. The _lack_
of money can slow this growth, but providing unlimited money could not
increase it indefinitely. Of course we can factor in the effects (and costs)
of education, but that is part of making human ingenuity more effective, not
of making factories more efficient. The efficiency of factories follows from
the growth of knowledge.

TCP estimates, just from the historical record, that the maximum achievable
growth rate would be around 13% per year in the USA. This would reflect,
among other things, the maximum usable investment in the growth of
knowledge. This would surely be considered an "explosive" rate of growth,
but generally (or at least during the past 100 years) it has seldom been
approached because of chronic leakage and restrictions on the money supply.

You're right that TCP has not studied the economies of other countries. It
would be interesting to see what they reveal.

Douglass North contends that
a lot of technology was available centuries ago (e.g., Hero's steam
engine), but didn't have an impact beyond the inventor's household just
because of lack of property rights.

That's certainly a political axe being ground. I would attribute the failure
of these technologies to spread to lack of understanding of the underlying
principles, which would permit rational designs rather than cut-and-try
experimentation. The first known control system was built around 2200 years
ago. It persisted in essentially unchanged form for the next two millenia,
primarily because nobody even started trying to work out the general
principles of control until the 19th century. I don't think it was a lack of
economic incentives that kept Hero from working out the principles of
thermodynamics.

The countries that instituted these
saw an explosion of economic growth because of the strong incentives
they provided specifically for applying that human ingenuity to
satisfying other people's wants. The relevance to TCP's analysis of the
U.S. economy is that I think he misses effects of the changing political
climate for business just within this country. Some think tank or other
estimated, for example, the current annual cost of economic regulation
at $600 billion. That seems to me a kind of "leakage" which has been
increasing over time.

Well, I guess I have to ask you whether you do or do not believe in the
basic explanation of behavior offered by PCT. Are "incentives" what make
people do things?

The costs of economic regulation, in the macroeconomy, are zero. All the
money that these regulations may cost is spent on goods and services. What
gripes people is that the money is being spent in one way while they would
prefer to spend it in a different way, mostly to increase their own wealth.
In terms of the macroeconomy, government is the least wasteful of all
institutions, because it puts every penny of income back into the economy,
with only a minor amount (perhaps 1 or 2 percent) of leakage, in the form of
foreign aid and similar global projects that return nothing to us.

Social organization has always seemed to me one of the most interesting
applications of PCT, so naturally I'd love to see you (or someone) put
the "battery" in the economy by interpreting it in terms of reference
levels.

Someone will, some day. But it will have to be someone who starts from no
political or ideological base, so we may have to wait a while.

Best,

Bill P.

[From Bjorn Simonsen (2008.03.17,20:25 EUST)]
Hi Rick
May I ask you a question fro T. C. Powers 81996).
On page 17, "Leakage and Rate of Economic Growth", I read "If inflation
was growing 1,6 percent per year, the national output was growing 13.0
percent per year (11.4 + 1.6 = 13.0).

Isn't this an unusual way of thinking? The intrinsic growth capability,
I guess, is percent of last year output, and the population is growing
1.6 percent of last year population.

I have compared some of T.C. Powers analyses with Norwegian economy and
I found what to me is unintelligible. The cost of producing capital
goods and services is the same percent in Norway, avg. 20%.

bjorn

[From Rick Marken (2008.03.18.1050)]

Bjorn Simonsen (2008.03.17,20:25 EUST)--
Hi Rick
May I ask you a question fro T. C. Powers 81996).
On page 17, "Leakage and Rate of Economic Growth", I read "If inflation
was growing 1,6 percent per year, the national output was growing 13.0
percent per year (11.4 + 1.6 = 13.0).

Isn't this an unusual way of thinking?

Yes, it is unusual. I think what Powers is talking about there is the
autoinflation (a theoretical notion) that presumably occurs to make up
for leakage. There is much in Powers model that I like but, just from
the point of view of modeling, there are some serious flaws in the
model. The most important flaw is that the effect of leakage on growth
rate is said to be derived from the model but it is actually _assumed_
by the modeler. Autoinflation is a real consequence of the model; it
may actually happen. If a portion on GNI is not being returned to the
composite producer due to leakage (resulting, presumably, from
maldistribution of wealth) then the composite producer must make up
for it by increasing the cost of what is produced (increasing the P
component of PQ). The question of where the composite consumer gets
this money to pay for the increased cost of PQ is unanswered (as is
the question about where the leaked wealth goes) but based on what is
now happening in the US, it looks like a lot of that money comes from
borrowing against assets. When it becomes impossible to keep borrowing
you get a financial meltdown, as is happening right now in the US. The
ultimate source of that meltdown (as per Powers' circular flow model)
is presumably increased leakage that results from increased
maldistribution of wealth. And the maldistribution of wealth has been
increasing in the US to a point where it was in the 1920s, thanks, of
course, to free market economics. So if Powers model is right, it
looks like we will soon be treated to a replay of the 1930s unless we
can get a Roosevelt (FDR or Teddy) in there in time, which is unlikely
to happen; they don't seem to make leaders like that anymore;-)

I have compared some of T.C. Powers analyses with Norwegian economy and
I found what to me is unintelligible. The cost of producing capital
goods and services is the same percent in Norway, avg. 20%.

I don't understand why this is unintelligible. Looks like the cost of
producing capital goods and services is the same proportion of GNP in
Norway as in the US. What is not intelligible?

Best

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com

[From Bjorn Simonsen (2008.03.19,12:10 EUST)]

From Rick Marken (2008.03.18.1050)]

Thank you for your commentaries.

The most important flaw is that the effect of leakage on growth
rate is said to be derived from the model but it is actually _assumed_
by the modeler.

Are you sure?
Let me start with your words: "Autoinflation is a real consequence of
the model; it may actually happen".
And I of course agree.

Leakage ---> Autoinflation
1)Autoinflation is less Q per dollar from the Composite Consumer per
unit time. This result in a less number emploid workers in the Composite
Producer and less Capital investment (80-20).
2)Inverse Autoinflation is more dollars per unit Q.
The sircular flow model is working continous; something is happening
every dt.
Because of 1) and 2) the sircular flow always is composed of the same
number of dollars (the number of dollars the Composite Producer invest
when the nation's ability to produce is at top and when there is no
leakage). The Composite Consumer buys every dt for the same number of
dollars, but he get a different number og goods and servives.

If leakage is growing, the Composite Consumer buys less and less goods.
The Growth of Q is redused in an exponential way.

Where am I wrong?

I am enthusiastic of T.C.Powers thinking when he says that supply and
demand are not the independent variables that explain a nation's
economy. Leakage is the independent variable that must be controlled.

I have compared some of T.C. Powers analyses with Norwegian economy
and I found what to me is unintelligible. The cost of producing
capital goods and services is the same percent in Norway, avg. 20%.

I don't understand why this is unintelligible. Looks like the cost of
producing capital goods and services is the same proportion of GNP in
Norway as in the US. What is not intelligible?

I still think the cost of producing capital goods and services in less
developed contries is more than 20% of GNP. And I thought there is a
corresponding difference between USA and Norway.

bjorn

[From Rick Marken (2008.03.20.2220)]

Sorry to take so long to respond, Bjorn. I was reading and re-reading
Barack Obama's incredible address and imagining what it would be like
to have an articulate, brilliant and compassionate person as a leader.
And then wondering why a person of such obvious talent would want to
be the leader of people so foolish that they would elect someone like
Bush -- twice!!

Bjorn Simonsen (2008.03.19,12:10 EUST)

>From Rick Marken (2008.03.18.1050)]

>The most important flaw is that the effect of leakage on growth
>rate is said to be derived from the model but it is actually _assumed_
>by the modeler.

Are you sure?

Yes. It's what I discovered by implementing Powers' model as the H.
economicus spreadsheet model. Bill Powers was able to see it just by
looking at the equations in "Leakage".

If leakage is growing, the Composite Consumer buys less and less goods.
The Growth of Q is reduced in an exponential way.

Actually, with constant leakage there is constant growth. This is
shown in Table 1 in my H. economicus paper. CF is the results
according to Powers Circular Flow model equations; H. Econ is the
actual dynamic behavior of the model when simulated in a spreadsheet.
Note that Leakage does have a strong effect on relative output, the
ratio of actual (Q') to potential (Q) goods and services that could be
produce by the economy. Increasing leakage decreases this ratio. But
leakage has no effect on growth rate (dP'Q'/dt); leakage does increase
inflation (the autoinflation effect). The point is that Powers'
Circular Flow model does _not_ predict an effect of leakage on growth
rate (change in GNP over time); that effect is put into the model deus
ex machina (Powers pere being the man behind the curtains running the
machine;-)

Where am I wrong?

Look carefully through "Leakage" and see if you can find any
derivation of the effect of leakage on growth rate. I think you will
see that there is none.

I am enthusiastic of T.C.Powers thinking when he says that supply and
demand are not the independent variables that explain a nation's
economy. Leakage is the independent variable that must be controlled.

Yes, I like that idea too.

I still think the cost of producing capital goods and services in less
developed contries is more than 20% of GNP. And I thought there is a
corresponding difference between USA and Norway.

The 20% figure seems to work for countries of all sizes as well as
for businesses large and small. Maybe there is some kind of economic
law working there.

Best

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com

[From Bjorn Simonsen (2008.03.21 11.00 EUST)]

From Rick Marken (2008.03.20.2220)

Look carefully through "Leakage" and see if you can find any
derivation of the effect of leakage on growth rate. I think you will
see that there is none.

page 111. OK, you are correct, he uses the words "It is assumed ......"

I think I see my own misunderstanding. When I look at a graph showing
r=g-alfa (equation 2-29) for many years, I see a curve with different
ordinates in different points. The growth is changing.

But if we analyse the economy for one year, then the leqakage is
konstant and if we derive the growth as regards dt, the effect of
leakage is zero (leakage is a constant).

Bjorn

[From Bill Powers (2008.03.21.0420 MDT)]

Rick Marken (2008.03.20.2220)]

> >The most important flaw is that the effect of leakage on growth
> >rate is said to be derived from the model but it is actually _assumed_
> >by the modeler.
>
[Bjorn]> Are you sure?

The calculated leakage is the actual growth rate subtracted from the "potential for growth," which is set at 13% on the basis of the maximum growth rate observed during World War 2. The leakage itself is never measured directly. It is implied by Fig. 1-1 -- the fact that the gross national income is greater than the total amount spent on consumer goods and services. That Figure could be taken as the smoking gun.

I think a better approach would have been to analyse the sources and sinks of money -- how it is created by borrowing, and destroyed by repayment of debt and by shipping money to others outside our national economy. Leakage, after all, is all about the supply of money/credit used to buy the nation's products. When that supply falls short, the entire product can't be sold, so production has to decrease, meaning that people have to lose jobs or take less pay, and so on down the slippery slope. This is why we need a good working model of the economy. Is the present system inherently unstable? Nobody knows.

Best,

Bill P.

···

Yes. It's what I discovered by implementing Powers' model as the H.
economicus spreadsheet model. Bill Powers was able to see it just by
looking at the equations in "Leakage".

> If leakage is growing, the Composite Consumer buys less and less goods.
> The Growth of Q is reduced in an exponential way.

Actually, with constant leakage there is constant growth. This is
shown in Table 1 in my H. economicus paper. CF is the results
according to Powers Circular Flow model equations; H. Econ is the
actual dynamic behavior of the model when simulated in a spreadsheet.
Note that Leakage does have a strong effect on relative output, the
ratio of actual (Q') to potential (Q) goods and services that could be
produce by the economy. Increasing leakage decreases this ratio. But
leakage has no effect on growth rate (dP'Q'/dt); leakage does increase
inflation (the autoinflation effect). The point is that Powers'
Circular Flow model does _not_ predict an effect of leakage on growth
rate (change in GNP over time); that effect is put into the model deus
ex machina (Powers pere being the man behind the curtains running the
machine;-)

> Where am I wrong?

Look carefully through "Leakage" and see if you can find any
derivation of the effect of leakage on growth rate. I think you will
see that there is none.

> I am enthusiastic of T.C.Powers thinking when he says that supply and
> demand are not the independent variables that explain a nation's
> economy. Leakage is the independent variable that must be controlled.

Yes, I like that idea too.

> I still think the cost of producing capital goods and services in less
> developed contries is more than 20% of GNP. And I thought there is a
> corresponding difference between USA and Norway.

The 20% figure seems to work for countries of all sizes as well as
for businesses large and small. Maybe there is some kind of economic
law working there.

Best

Rick
--
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com

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[From Bjorn Simonsen (2008.03.20:05 EUST])

From Bill Powers (2008.03.21.0420 MDT)

When do you slleep, Bill?

I think a better approach would have been to analyse the sources and
sinks of money -- how it is created by borrowing, and destroyed by
repayment of debt and by shipping money to others outside our
national economy.

Maybe you are right. The sircular flow was new to me. And I think it is
a greate idea to eliminate the variables representing different goods
and services and just analyse the number of dollars in the sircular
flow. Leakage is still to me an independent variable with effects on a
nation's economy not many economists think upon.
The way I understand the sircular flow, it explains borrowing and
repayment. When the value of the garantee, the house, sinks - money
disappear and TCP name it leakage.
I think as you that shipping dollars outside our national economy is
Leakage and buying climate quotas in foreign countries and giving aid to
developing countries is a subject that we can study in more than one
point of view.

This is why we need a good working model of the economy. Is the present
system inherently unstable? Nobody knows.

For me is Rick's H. Economicus a progress.

bjorn

This is Phil Runkel on 7 March 00.

Dear Rick: Congratulations on the operation of your model of leakage.
Must have felt good to have it surprise you. -- Phil

[From Rick Marken (2000.03.08.0930)]

Phil Runkel (2000.03.07) --

Dear Rick: Congratulations on the operation of
your model of leakage. Must have felt good to have
it surprise you.

Yes. It was a very exciting and pleasant surprise/discovery.

It has also led me to the realization/discovery that the
accumulation of "inventory" that results from leakage is a
lot less than I had thought based on computations using a
fixed level of leakage (like 8%). Because leakage is changing
at some _rate_ in my version of the TCP model, the composite
producer is able to continuously increase selling prices so
as to make up for the loss of demand (purchasing $ in the
hands of the composite consumer) that results from leakage.
This is a _gradual_ control process that occurs over time.
So the amount of inventory can be rather small even when the
amount of leakage increases to high levels, like 8%.

The situation is equivalent to what happens in a control loop
when a disturbance is applied to a controlled variable. In
the leakage model, leakage is a disturbance to the controlled
variable, GNP (in the form of purchasing power, PQ). The
cumulative amount of inventory is equivalent to the cumulative
error (over time) in the control loop. If the disturbance is
sudden (leakage goes instantly -- in one dt interval -- from
0 to 8%) then the error (inventory) is large; there is a
huge surplus of unbought goods due to leakage. If, however,
the disturbance is gradually increasing over time (say,
leakage goes from 0 to 8% in increments of .01% per dt
interval) then the control system (the composite economic
entity in this case) can gradually change output (the
selling or "mark up" price, which becomes the "pay raise"
given to the composite consumer in the next instant) so that
the disturbance (increase in leakage) is almost completely
nullified -- so there is almost no inventory. The small
amount of inventory that does build up is quickly removed
when leakage starts decreasing (the rate of change in leakage
goes negative, as it must sometimes because we know that
leakage levels change).

So I think I've got a rather simple, realistic model of the
behavior (over time) of some of the main aggregate economic
variables: GNP, inflation, etc. And it seem to fit the
available data as well or better than the TCP model where
leakage, rather than rate of change in leakage, is the main
independent variable (disturbance).

The next step in testing this model is to get some more relevant
data, in particular Fed discount rate targets over the last
several years. Also, I need to figure out how to keep the model
stable when it's controlling an exponentially increasing variable
(GNP). That is, I've got the reference for GNP increasing as:

rGNP = rGNP + (0.1 * rGNP) * dt

where the .1 represents a 10% growth rate. At some point
the absolute size of the changes seem to become too
big, driving the selling price control system into
oscillation. Any suggestions?

Best

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken Phone or Fax: 310 474-0313
Life Learning Associates mailto: rmarken@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~rmarken

[From Mike Acree (970305.0826 PST)]

Bill Powers (970221.1840 MST)--

The gap between us in our understanding of economics is fascinating, and
tempting to keep exploring, but also daunting. There is some delicacy
and awkwardness in attempting to explain what seems self-evident; yet
it's hard to assume anything understood when it is self-evident to you
that leakage is inflationary and equally self-evident to me that, to the
extent that it may exist, it is deflationary. One quickly suspects that
we mean different things by inflation. I notice also that our exchange
has had the effect of extinguishing all other commentary about leakage
on the Net, and, moreover, that the attempts in my initial post to draw
a few connections between leakage theory and PCT haven't gone anywhere.
Those considerations, together with unencouraging prospects for
resolution, leave me somewhat uneasy about continuing. But here's
another round, at least, in which I want to return to the basic
structure of TCP's argument.

If I understand it, he holds that, logically, aggregate spending and
income ought to be (essentially) the same at any given moment; they
aren't; hence there is leakage. But I've yet to see that his first
premise was demonstrated. He acknowledges that it isn't true for
individual units (families, organizations, etc.), and you have
acknowledged (I think) that national boundaries enclose rather arbitrary
aggregates. So if you draw a boundary around an arbitrary group of
producers and consumers, what constrains their spending to equal their
income at any given point? Where is the magic line crossed, where this
constraint kicks in? If I happened to live in a small nation of
providential people, what could possibly compel me to run up a
gargantuan debt just to balance out my compatriots' thrift? The
argument that none of the component units is subject to the constraint,
but that somehow an arbitrary aggregate of them is, sounds like the
claim of the merchant who, though he admitted he lost money on every
item he sold, insisted that he made up for it with his tremendous volume
of sales.

Try an analogy. An organism constitutes a kind of economy of energy--a
macroeconomy, considering that all the constituent cells and organs
function both as producers and consumers. Organisms go through
periods--often short, sometimes long--of living off stored energy and
depleting reserves. But there is no requirement, biological or
otherwise, that energy taken in should equal energy expended, for a
particular, moment, or day, or year. (As described, the organism
constitutes a barter economy; we could add a monetary system by
supposing that it did its accounting explicitly in terms of ergs or
calories or whatever. And we could make it a fiat money system by
supposing that the definition of the unit of energy were subject to
external manipulation, whose effects we could observe only indirectly,
in noticing that a 2000-calorie meal was no longer half as filling as it
used to be.)

Perhaps we would all agree (though this doesn't sound like TCP's way of
thinking) that aggregate supply and demand must be (essentially) equal
(for any aggregate, national or otherwise) simply because they are the
same goods and services considered from the point of view of producer or
consumer. Even on an individual level, my own (effective) demand
consists of what I supply (produce). But I don't see any necessary
reference to time in that insight, nothing to require immediate
consumption of what is produced--for me or the USA. In short, it is not
clear to me, either for organic entities or for coincidental aggregates,
that income and spending must balance at any given point; lacking that,
leakage appears to me simply an artifact of looking at time slices in a
process where spending typically lags income.

I keep thinking that all the relationships would be clearer if we set
money aside and looked simply at the exchange of goods and services
(except for economic effects of changes in the quantity of money in
circulation). It is still my impression, in fact, that whatever
plausibility the leakage theory may claim derives partly from a
pervasive confusion of money with wealth. Wealth is really a matter of
the goods and serves at our disposal, (paper) money merely a medium of
exchange. The attaching of intrinsic value to money is something that
gold bugs are sometimes accused of; it is especially odd in an advocate
of paper money. But this is implied in your contention that,
macroeconomically, real wealth is lost, not just some paper, if GM's $17
billion burns. You point to lost future production, but this seems to
me a case where you are the one thinking microeconomically: you are
seeing only the loss of dollars to GM, and not the fact that each dollar
that remains will now buy more. If wealth were fundamentally a matter
of dollars, then the 50% deflation over the 19th century would mean the
people enjoyed a much higher standard of living in 1800 than in 1900,
when of course the reverse is true. And, conversely, the government
could make us all fabulously rich just by printing gazillions of dollars
(or, equivalently, by decreeing that every existing dollar were now
worth $1000).

The situation may be easier to see, again, if we imagine a free (i.e.,
unregulated) banking system, without legal tender, so that GM's burned
cash consisted of actual certificates of deposit. In that case it is
likely that the bank would have a policy of issuing replacement
certificates, presumably with a service fee, on proof that the originals
were destroyed and not merely lost. If it didn't, it could issue new
certificates against GM's gold (or wampum or whatever), and the quantity
of money in the economy would remain the same, even if GM had less. In
neither case, more relevantly, is the quantity of goods and services in
the economy diminished. The difference from our present situation is
that the deposits have long been fictitious, so that the quantity of
notes in circulation can be and is controlled for reasons of political
expedience (even Greenspan eases up before elections). (Incidentally, I
didn't understand your remark that the Fed was run by member banks in
the private sector. They why was your father railing against Greenspan
instead of these banks? And is it not the Board, rather than member
banks, which sets the prime rate?) But that doesn't change the
character of money as a medium of exchange; for our purposes, it mainly
just makes it harder to follow what is going on (which is presumably one
of the purposes of inflation).

I wonder if confusion between money and wealth may underlie your
suspicion that a true gold standard would constrain production and
suppress the economy. Your implication is evidently either that the
quantity of money in circulation might be intrinsically "insufficient"
or that it couldn't be expanded at will. I would regard the latter as
an advantage insofar as it facilitated economic planning and allowed
interest rates to be lower. And, so long as there was a sufficient
quantity (of gold, or whatever commodity) to permit a monetary economy,
in a practical sense, I would think the absolute amount arbitrary within
very wide limits, for the same reason that it makes no difference
whether prices are denominated in dollars or yen.

You make, finally, a plausible, but I think misguided, plea for
development of economic theory free of the grinding of political axes.
I should say before proceeding further that the places where I ground
axes were specifically points where I wanted to emphasize my accord with
TCP's values--as, for instance, in forcible redistribution from the poor
to the rich. (On this point, incidentally, I wonder at your assumption
that one segment of society can be enriched only at the expense of
another--as though the world started out with the same wealth we see
around us now, and it's simply been trading hands since then. You have
enriched lots of people besides yourself (intellectually more than
economically at this point, but perhaps in time . . .:-)), and it works
the same with somebody who invents a new chip that does more for the
same cost. It is possible for the overall standard of living to
rise--for everyone, on average, to be richer--and it's been known to
happen. You are right in pointing out that enriching one segment at the
expense of another, by whatever means, is a microphenomenon; I would
never have disagreed, but I felt free to comment on it since TCP did
also. In fact, there are a few axes embedded in his text (as in his
deploring Reagan's military spending while lauding FDR's; I would have
opposed both).)

To return to the world outside parentheses: Your plea for treating
economic theory apart from political theory seems to imply the
irrelevance of the latter. I would take that to be equivalent to a
claim that human behavior can be understood intrapersonally, without
reference to culture. Given the historical record around the world, I
would think the burden of demonstration fell on the assertion that
political organization was irrelevant to economic performance. You were
dismissive of North's explanation, in political terms, of why technical
ingenuity should have started pyramiding in England in the 18th century,
but not in Germany or India at that time, to anything like the same
degree; the same questions are raised today by the differences between
Hong Kong, which has practically no natural resources, and Mexico--or,
better, between the New Zealand or Chile of the 1970s and of the 1990s.
Indeed, I think an argument could be made that the plea for setting
aside political axes constituted itself a kind of political
axe--essentially an implicit plea for the political status quo. (That
impression is somewhat confirmed by your astonishing remark that
"government is the least wasteful of all institutions." On your
(idiosyncratic) concept, money is never wasted, regardless of what it is
spent for, so long as it is spent on something. For most of the rest of
us, it makes a difference what we get for our money. The money that was
spent of those $10,000 toilet seats, or whatever they were, that were
guaranteed to operate under conditions which exceeded the biological
limits of human life, could have been spent on something that would have
enhanced our standard of living slightly more. The same goes for
purchases like the war in Vietnam or the war on drugs or the battles to
exclude Mexican immigrants. Even Al Gore once thought government was
wasteful.)

Speaking of North, incidentally, I was sorry to see that I was evidently
pissing you off by that point, in your zinging my use of the word
"incentive." I had hesitated over it, then decided the ideas were
well-enough understood that it would suffice for convenience in place of
a more cumbersome locution about most people's reference levels for
money, relative to other values they are controlling for, etc. I
certainly cannot claim (unfortunately) to think consistently yet in PCT
terms; but neither did I mean to imply that I thought incentives
"determined" people's behavior in the absence of their own reference
levels.

Best always,
Mike

from Tracy Harms (970305.1714 PST)

Bill Powers (970305.1601 MST)]

There are really _two_ "circular flows" in macroeconomics. One is the money
flow, which goes in one direction around the loop. The other is the flow of
goods and services, which goes the other way. People provide their time,
effort, and ingenuity to the composite producer,

Absolutely not. Individual sellers provide their product to individual
purchasers. Aggregation to an alleged "composite producer" is analytically
worthless because the point of production (and, indirectly, transaction) is
increased benefit, and valuation is irreducibly local. This may be
amplified in PCT terms by noting that well-being is always subjective
perception.

which results in converting
raw materials and manufactured goods into production of new goods and
services, which are consumed by the same people who produce them

Only if you make "same people" the set of all people, in which case the
point of transaction is entirely missed. (Same objection I just raised
above. Aggregating "composite consumer" is just the same error as
"composite producer.") The rice from a rice paddy is very obviously *not*
consumed by the same people who produce it.

[...] This is where the idea of
the composite entities comes in. ALL the consumers get ALL of their money
from the composite producer. And the composite producer's ONLY source of
income is the composite consumer. So this circle, if working optimally,
would always be in balance.

I'm unsure of what "optimally" would mean here other than being a synonym
for "in balance." Further, I deny that there is any way that things can be
out of balance if this aggregation you call for is applied
self-consistently (e.g. not drawing a limit at national borders); the
balance is tautological.

The thing which is missing in this economic theory, above all, is a lack of
appreciation for the nature of the problems which the market solves. The
foremost fact of economics is that there is uncertainty as to the better
use among the possible uses of any given thing in any given context. The
price mechanism is a means for improving knowledge as to optimization
(always a *local* optimization) by means of simple signals and simple
rules.

I've been restraining myself from involvement on this topic because, well,
I come here to learn about HPCT. I recommend we study economics elsewhere.
If you folk really want to hash out economics here, my guess is -- it aint
gonna be pretty!

Tracy Bruce Harms
harms@hackvan.com

[From Bill Powers (970305.1601 MST)]

Mike Acree (970305.0826 PST) --

Just a few comments -- I'm not trying to sell any economic theory, or any
political theory for that matter.

There are really _two_ "circular flows" in macroeconomics. One is the money
flow, which goes in one direction around the loop. The other is the flow of
goods and services, which goes the other way. People provide their time,
effort, and ingenuity to the composite producer, which results in converting
raw materials and manufactured goods into production of new goods and
services, which are consumed by the same people who produce them and are the
reason that people choose to devote their time etc. to producing them. I
think this latter is what you mean by a "barter economy."

The money, however, is a lot easier to keep track of, since the vast
majority of goods and services is exchanged for money, not directly for
other goods and services (if you worked in a car plant, I don't think you'd
want to be paid in cars and fractions of cars). This is where the idea of
the composite entities comes in. ALL the consumers get ALL of their money
from the composite producer. And the composite producer's ONLY source of
income is the composite consumer. So this circle, if working optimally,
would always be in balance.

You're probably worried about where new money comes from (I know I was), and
I agree that TCP didn't deal with this problem -- he just said it shows up
when it's needed. It's somewhat subtle when you realize that composite
entities are always borrowing money and paying it back at the same time,
which looks as though it should sum to zero, or at least a constant. But for
the money supply to grow, the amount of outstanding debt has to grow, so the
repayments must lag the borrowing just enough to pump up the supply. The new
money itself is free, but there is a service charge for creating it, called
interest. The institutions that supply the money are, in that role, part of
the composite producer.

I don't think that reasoning about economics by analogy or by extrapolation
from specific microeconomic cases will produce much understanding. What's
needed is a real working model, with all the quantitative relationships in
it. Reasoning about closed loops doesn't come naturally to homo sapiens.

Best,

Bill P.