# LeEdna No. 2

**URL:** <http://discourse.iapct.org/t/leedna-no-2/6234>\
**Category:** CSG1995\
**Created:** [September 4, 1995, 11:08pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/leedna-no-2/6234 "1995-09-04T23:08:00Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 2\
**Page:** 1

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Edward\_E\_Ford](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@Edward\_E\_Ford](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Edward_E_Ford)\
**Post date:** [September 4, 1995, 11:08pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/leedna-no-2/6234/1 "1995-09-04T23:08:00Z")

</div>

from LeEdna via Ed Ford (950905)

To Bill Powers:

Re: The kicking John & asking "What are you doing?" followed by "Why were  
you doing it?" When John is asked "What are you doing?" as you have  
previously agreed, he must go up a level to answer. The effect, if he  
chooses to answer, is disengagement. He stops kicking, processes the  
question and responds. Generally, he momentarily disengages from his goal  
that resulted in kicking Bill. At this point, what we practioners would  
call, emotions are typically running high. John is still angry, Bill is  
angry and others in the area are likely to be tense. If at this time you ask  
"Why were you doing it?" you may find John kicking Bill again. The "Why"  
question will refocus John on his earlier goal (i.e. to get Bill to stop  
calling him names), at a time when he is unable or unwilling to achieve that  
result in a safer more acceptable way. (Yes, Bill, I know, acceptable to  
whom? Acceptable to those nasty school authorities who set some rules  
without input from students or staff.) I do agree with you regarding the  
importance of asking the "Why" question. However, I believe when you do and  
how you ask becomes a personal judgement. If I perceive the situation is too  
volital or if doing so would be too disruptive, or embarrassing for the  
kicker or kickee, I will choose to wait. Most often, this is the case. The  
"why" generally occurs during plan making. However, I believe you are right,  
we must insure John's goal is delt with or we will be dealing with the same  
type of acts again and again. Each plan includes the questions, "What could  
you have done differently to solve this problem?" and "What will you do the  
next time you feel like kicking or hurting someone?" As a result of your  
post I have concluded a more specific question should be added to the plan  
such as "What did you want to happen when you kicked Bill?"

You will note, I still tend to avoid the word "why". My experience has been  
that children know when they have made a choice that conflicts with the  
standards of where they are: asking them "why" initially results in their  
defending their actions rather than reporting their goal. I am not sure but  
I think their prior experience with "why" in these situations has been  
punitive and may continue to be so in their homes. Thus, their prior school  
experience and current home life influence their perceptions of the "why"  
question. Granted after a period of time in our school one would expect to  
see differentiation and the elimination of the need to be deffensive.

Another reasonand are talking one on one with an adult with whom they are  
willing to give access, they may begin by telling you about the incident  
leading to the kicking but they often move on to talk of more significant  
factors that may have led to the "Kicking". For example, witnessing their  
mother brutally beaten the night befoe by their father or a boyfriend and  
being unable to stop it. The child may talk about feeling powerless (ie no  
control) and feeling guilty for not being braver or stronger. In these  
situations children frequently say something like "when Bill called me a  
name I thought "no more, I'm not taking it anymore." What really was John  
controlling for? Do you think asking why on the playground or in a classroom  
would get the same depth of response? I don't. It often takes considerable  
time, privacy, and relationship building. Best, Le

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Netnews\_Server](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/n/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Netnews\_Server](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Netnews_Server)\
**Post date:** [September 6, 1995, 3:22am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/leedna-no-2/6234/2 "1995-09-06T03:22:30Z")

</div>

> From Marc Abrams (950905.2350

> &nbsp;&nbsp;"Edward E. Ford" \<0005913466@MCIMAIL.COM\> writes:  
> from LeEdna via Ed Ford (950905)
> 
> To Bill Powers:
> 
> Re: The kicking John & asking "What are you doing?" followed by "Why were  
> you doing it?" When John is asked "What are you doing?" as you have  
> previously agreed, he must go up a level to answer. The effect, if he  
> chooses to answer, is disengagement. He stops kicking, processes the  
> question and responds. Generally, he momentarily disengages from his goal  
> that resulted in kicking Bill. At this point, what we practioners would  
> call, emotions are typically running high. John is still angry, Bill is  
> angry and others in the area are likely to be tense. If at this time you ask  
> "Why were you doing it?" you may find John kicking Bill again. The "Why"  
> question will refocus John on his earlier goal (i.e. to get Bill to stop  
> calling him names),

Le, isn't the "calling of names" a \_symptom\_ of the problem? What is Bill  
controlling for? Is this soley a  
problem of John's?

at a time when he is unable or unwilling to achieve that

> result in a safer more acceptable way. (Yes, Bill, I know, acceptable to  
> whom? Acceptable to those nasty school authorities who set some rules  
> without input from students or staff.) I do agree with you regarding the  
> importance of asking the "Why" question. However, I believe when you do and  
> how you ask becomes a personal judgement. If I perceive the situation is too  
> volital or if doing so would be too disruptive, or embarrassing for the  
> kicker or kickee, I will choose to wait. Most often, this is the case. The  
> "why" generally occurs during plan making. However, I believe you are right,  
> we must insure John's goal is delt with or we will be dealing with the same  
> type of acts again and again. Each plan includes the questions, "What could  
> you have done differently to solve this problem?"

Le, why do you assume that there is always a "problem" associated with the  
results of some of these  
interactions. The "problem" may lie soley in the perception of the viewer. Not  
in the students.

> What really was John  
> controlling for? Do you think asking why on the playground or in a classroom  
> would get the same depth of response? I don't. It often takes considerable  
> time, privacy, and relationship building. Best, Le

Maybe not asking why. How about asking \_what\_ the child was trying to  
accomplish. What did you expect to  
happen when you did .....?  
Just a thought

Marc