Living Control Systems (not by Powers)

[Martin Taylor 2014.01.20.00.12]

CSGnet might be interested to know that there exists a 1974 book entitled "Living Control Systems (New Science)" by L.E.Bayliss. I never heard of him, but since Amazon was offering a used copy for $10 including shipping, I ordered it. I know nothing of Bayliss, but clicking on his Amazon link, he has three physiology books dated from 1960, including this one. It will be interesting to see what he means by the term, and if it turns out to be anything like PCT, whether he has many citations in the literature.

If anyone knows anything about Bayliss or about his Living Control Systems, please chime in.

Martin

[From Fred Nickols (2014.01.20.0645 EST)]

Bill Powers and Dick Robertson cited Bayliss on p.2 of "Introduction to
Modern Psychology." I don't have that book so I can't see what they said.

http://www.livingcontrolsystems.com/intro_psych/content_intro_psych.html

Fred Nickols

From: Martin Taylor [mailto:mmt-csg@MMTAYLOR.NET]
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2014 12:17 AM
To: CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU
Subject: Living Control Systems (not by Powers)

[Martin Taylor 2014.01.20.00.12]

CSGnet might be interested to know that there exists a 1974 book entitled
"Living Control Systems (New Science)" by L.E.Bayliss. I never heard of

him,

but since Amazon was offering a used copy for $10 including shipping, I
ordered it. I know nothing of Bayliss, but clicking on his Amazon link, he

has

three physiology books dated from 1960, including this one. It will be
interesting to see what he means by the term, and if it turns out to be
anything like PCT, whether he has many citations in the literature.

If anyone knows anything about Bayliss or about his Living Control

Systems,

···

-----Original Message-----
please chime in.

Martin

[From Matti Kolu (2014.01.20.1300 CET)]

Martin Taylor 2014.01.20.00.12--

If anyone knows anything about Bayliss or about his Living Control Systems, please chime in.

I have a copy of the book. I am posting the preface as it is fairly interesting.

(Typed, not copied, so the typos are mine.)

···

----
The author of this book, Leonard Bayliss, died in August 1964. For
many years, up to 1959, he had worked incessantly in producing, in two
volumes, a new edition of his father's great work, _Principles of
General Physiology_, published first in 1915. In his patience, his
helpfulness, and his inexhaustible knowledge, he was singularly like
W.M.B.; and the company of physiologists everywhere is greatly
indebted to him for preserving his father's thought and extending it
in more modern guise for a further many years.

When Bayliss had finished this major task his mind went back to things
in which he had been active during the war. From 1940 to 1945 he was
an important member of the Army Operational Research Group, and had
been concerned with the control of anti-aircraft guns and their
accessory instruments. As he points out on p. 7 it was only in 1930
that a rigorous theoretical study had begun on how automatic control
systems work and how they should be designed.

Naturally, as he saw these systems develop rapidly during the war, he
reflected on their many counterparts in living systems where they had
evolved slowly, to supreme perfection, over hundreds of millions of
years. So when he returned to physiology be began to put together this
thoughts on the subject and between 1960 and 1964 devoted much of his
time writing them down. Fortunately the work had already been
completed when he died.

It is no new idea that living organisms contain numerous
self-regulating control systems but we are only now beginning to
understand the factors that govern the sensitivity, speed of response
and stability of these elaborate mechanisms. An immense fields still
awaits exploration here both by biologists who acquire a suficient
understanding of the theory of automatic mechanisms that has been
developed by engineers, and by people trained as engineers or
mathematicians who come to realise what a fascinating variety of
"living control systems" are waiting to be investigated.

In a letter to sir Graham Sutton, General Editor of this series,
Bayliss wrote that, when writing this book he "had in mind that its
reader might be, primarily, at the level of the sixth form at schools
and the first year at Universities whose training had been either on
the mathematico-physical side or on the biological side; and secondly
some more advanced students in experimental biology and engineering".
This statement is characteristic of Bayliss's modesty, and in his
generosity of estimating the abilities of the young: in addition to
its value at the level that he mentions, this book will bring a new
order of understanding of living things to a wide range of general
readers with some training in physical or biological science, and
indeed will also be an admirable introduction for established research
workers who wish to enter this field from either the biological or
engineering side.

Bayliss also recognized the difficulty of writing for two groups of
readers: "this implies that one half of the readers will find some
parts of the book familiar and possibly unnecessary and the other half
will find the other part to be equally amiliar and unnecessary". But
there cannot be many biologists who are familiar with all the examples
from the animal and vegetable worls that he brings forward, and on the
other side, few but the servo experts will fail to benefit from the
lucid account of control theory that is given here.

A. V. HILL
A. F. HUXLEY
----
Matti

[From Matti Kolu (2014.04.11.1430 CET)]

Martin Taylor 2014.01.20.00.12 --

CSGnet might be interested to know that there exists a 1974 book entitled
"Living Control Systems (New Science)" by L.E.Bayliss. I never heard of him,
but since Amazon was offering a used copy for $10 including shipping, I
ordered it. I know nothing of Bayliss, but clicking on his Amazon link, he
has three physiology books dated from 1960, including this one. It will be
interesting to see what he means by the term, and if it turns out to be
anything like PCT, whether he has many citations in the literature.

Have you had the time to look through the book? Did you find anything
noteworthy in it?

Matti

[Martin Taylor 2014.04.11.10.40]

[From Matti Kolu (2014.04.11.1430 CET)]

Martin Taylor 2014.01.20.00.12 --

CSGnet might be interested to know that there exists a 1974 book entitled
"Living Control Systems (New Science)" by L.E.Bayliss. I never heard of him,
but since Amazon was offering a used copy for $10 including shipping, I
ordered it. I know nothing of Bayliss, but clicking on his Amazon link, he
has three physiology books dated from 1960, including this one. It will be
interesting to see what he means by the term, and if it turns out to be
anything like PCT, whether he has many citations in the literature.

Have you had the time to look through the book? Did you find anything
noteworthy in it?

Matti

I received the book some time ago, but hadn't opened it until I got your message. I will look further into it, but here's an early passage (p3). You can judge whether it is promising:

---------quote-------
So far we have assumed that the fluctuations in demand that the control system has to cope with are random. without any particular pattern. But in some fo the ,pst valuable kinds of control system this is not so: they are given definite instructions on which they have to act precisely, and they do this in the same way as those already described, by comparing the results of their activities (their "output" as it is called) and ensuring that the difference between them (the misalignment or "error") is zero, or as close to zero as possible. (The terms "inout" and "output" of a control system are sometimes confusing: the input to the ball-valve of the water tank is the water level, lowered by an outflow of water; the output is the movement of the valve which controls the inflow of water).

···

----------------------

If you equate "demand" with "reference value", it seems to me that he gets it right. Control systems control their inputs, and their outputs affect the environment. But who knows what lies later in the book?

Martin

[From Fred Nickols (2014.04.11.1114 EDT)]

I knew I'd seen the name Bayliss before. He is cited in Introduction to
Modern Psychology edited by Robertson and Powers.

Fred Nickols

From: Martin Taylor [mailto:mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net]
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2014 10:51 AM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: Living Control Systems (not by Powers)

[Martin Taylor 2014.04.11.10.40]

> [From Matti Kolu (2014.04.11.1430 CET)]
>
> Martin Taylor 2014.01.20.00.12 --
>
>> CSGnet might be interested to know that there exists a 1974 book
>> entitled "Living Control Systems (New Science)" by L.E.Bayliss. I
>> never heard of him, but since Amazon was offering a used copy for $10
>> including shipping, I ordered it. I know nothing of Bayliss, but
>> clicking on his Amazon link, he has three physiology books dated from
>> 1960, including this one. It will be interesting to see what he means
>> by the term, and if it turns out to be anything like PCT, whether he

has

many citations in the literature.
> Have you had the time to look through the book? Did you find anything
> noteworthy in it?
>
> Matti
>
I received the book some time ago, but hadn't opened it until I got your
message. I will look further into it, but here's an early passage (p3).
You can judge whether it is promising:

---------quote-------
So far we have assumed that the fluctuations in demand that the control
system has to cope with are random. without any particular pattern. But in
some fo the ,pst valuable kinds of control system this is not so:
they are given definite instructions on which they have to act precisely,

and

they do this in the same way as those already described, by comparing the
results of their activities (their "output" as it is
called) and ensuring that the difference between them (the misalignment or
"error") is zero, or as close to zero as possible. (The terms "inout"
and "output" of a control system are sometimes confusing: the input to the
ball-valve of the water tank is the water level, lowered by an outflow of
water; the output is the movement of the valve which controls the inflow

of

water).
----------------------

If you equate "demand" with "reference value", it seems to me that he gets
it right. Control systems control their inputs, and their outputs affect

the

···

-----Original Message-----
environment. But who knows what lies later in the book?

Martin

[Martin Taylor 2014.04.11.11.20]

[From Fred Nickols (2014.04.11.1114 EDT)]

I knew I'd seen the name Bayliss before. He is cited in Introduction to
Modern Psychology edited by Robertson and Powers.

Fred Nickols

Cited, yes, but no differences between the Powers-Robertson approach and Bayliss are mentioned, whhc suggests that they are the same, but used in the biological rather than the psychological context. The only cite is in this paragraph: (IMP page 2)
-------quote-------
How do we state this new paradigm? By exactly reversing Skinner's position (above) that the world acts on the organism. [italic] The organism is an enviroment control system[/italic], not a reflex machine. This view has been increasingly accepted among biologists ( see Reiner, 1975; Bayliss, 1966; Kalmus, 1966), but it has yet to gain wide recognition among psychologists.
--------end quote-------

It sounds as though the way Powers and Robertson thought about what they were doing was that they were extending into psychology an idea that was then becoming popular in biology. So we might expect the unread portion of Bayliss's book to have familiar ideas, but not used in a psychological context.

Thanks for the catch, Fred.

Martin

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Taylor [mailto:mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net]
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2014 10:51 AM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: Living Control Systems (not by Powers)

[Martin Taylor 2014.04.11.10.40]

[From Matti Kolu (2014.04.11.1430 CET)]

Martin Taylor 2014.01.20.00.12 --

CSGnet might be interested to know that there exists a 1974 book
entitled "Living Control Systems (New Science)" by L.E.Bayliss. I
never heard of him, but since Amazon was offering a used copy for $10
including shipping, I ordered it. I know nothing of Bayliss, but
clicking on his Amazon link, he has three physiology books dated from
1960, including this one. It will be interesting to see what he means
by the term, and if it turns out to be anything like PCT, whether he

has

many citations in the literature.

Have you had the time to look through the book? Did you find anything
noteworthy in it?

Matti

I received the book some time ago, but hadn't opened it until I got your
message. I will look further into it, but here's an early passage (p3).
You can judge whether it is promising:

---------quote-------
So far we have assumed that the fluctuations in demand that the control
system has to cope with are random. without any particular pattern. But in
some fo the ,pst valuable kinds of control system this is not so:
they are given definite instructions on which they have to act precisely,

and

they do this in the same way as those already described, by comparing the
results of their activities (their "output" as it is
called) and ensuring that the difference between them (the misalignment or
"error") is zero, or as close to zero as possible. (The terms "inout"
and "output" of a control system are sometimes confusing: the input to the
ball-valve of the water tank is the water level, lowered by an outflow of
water; the output is the movement of the valve which controls the inflow

of

water).
----------------------

If you equate "demand" with "reference value", it seems to me that he gets
it right. Control systems control their inputs, and their outputs affect

the

environment. But who knows what lies later in the book?

Martin