[From Bruce Gregory (981221.0937 EDT)]
Rick Marken (981220.2225)
Well, according to the latest polls you've got one hell of
a lot of people like me around. So poor, Clinton hating
souls like you can, indeed, be saved. Clinton's approval
rating just went to 73%!!!
One thing you'll have to admit is that the Republicans are high rollers.
Talk about working without a net! Voting to impeach a president with
such a phenomenal approval rating requires either incredible guts or
incredible faith (I guess we can't rule out incredible stupidity
either). The voters in two years will have a marvelous opportunity for a
plebiscite on the Republican bravado. It will be very interesting to see
how long their memories are.
Bruce Gregory
From [ Marc Abrams (981221.1012) ]
[From Bruce Gregory (981221.0930 EDT)]
Marc Abrams (981220.2144)
Forgive me. I thought you had already explained in considerable detail
what you thought and why. Were there some crucial points you omitted for
some reason?
No, just some possible misinterpretations by you. I never intended to place
myself above _anyone_ else, I thought I made that quite clear. We _all_
have our good days and bad. I was _not_ judging Clinton the person. I
happen to think ( and still do 
) that he made some bad choices. Nothing
more, nothing less. Is Starr a jerk? yep, but irrelevant. IMHO Clinton
should have been more forthright from the beggining, sparing everyone alot
of BS. Read into this what you will.
>Sounds to me like >you might be controlling for self-righteousness.
Are you saying this while looking in a mirror?
I try to ask myself this question regularly. I find it >a useful discipline.
And your answer?
Marc
···
At 09:31 AM 12/21/98 -0500, you wrote:
[From Rick Marken (981221.0730)]
Bruce Gregory (981221.0937 EDT)
The voters in two years will have a marvelous opportunity for a
plebiscite on the Republican bravado. It will be very interesting
to see how long their memories are.
I believe that all those who voted in favor of impeachment
(including the 5 or so Democrats) have proved themselves to be
incapable of civilized, cooperative behavior. If you would like
to contribute financially to their defeat in the 2000 election,
just go to:
http://www.moveon.org/pledge.htm
We may not get anyone better as a result; but we certainly
couldn't do any worse.
Best
Rick
···
--
Richard S. Marken Phone or Fax: 310 474-0313
Life Learning Associates e-mail: rmarken@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~rmarken
[From Bruce Gregory (981221.1045 EDT)]
Rick Marken (981221.0730)
I believe that all those who voted in favor of impeachment
(including the 5 or so Democrats) have proved themselves to be
incapable of civilized, cooperative behavior. If you would like
to contribute financially to their defeat in the 2000 election,
just go to:
http://www.moveon.org/pledge.htm
We may not get anyone better as a result; but we certainly
couldn't do any worse.
Done. Thanks.
Bruce Gregory
[From Bruce Gregory (981221.1046 EDT)]
Marc Abrams (981221.1012)
>> >Sounds to me like >you might be controlling for
self-righteousness.
>>
>> Are you saying this while looking in a mirror?
>
>I try to ask myself this question regularly. I find it >a
useful discipline.
And your answer?
It varies from day to day.
Bruce Gregory
From [ Marc Abrams (981221.1100) ]
[From Bruce Gregory (981221.1046 EDT)]
It varies from day to day.
Thanks for the forthrightness. I'll try your mirror method.
I think an important point to walk away with from this is that we are not
always ( probably usually ) aware of how our actions effect or are
interpreted by others and the _only_ way of knowing how we are affecting
others is by either personal reflection or someone telling you. Since we
tend to discredit things ( gotta protect those reference levels ) we
don't want to hear, reflection becomes an important tool to assess how we
feel we are doing.
I think I'll look into a full length mirror.
Serendipitously yours,
Marc
···
At 10:51 AM 12/21/98 -0500, you wrote:
[From Bruce Gregory (981221.1435 EDT)]
The Republican impeachment steamroller is a graphic example of what
happens when a control system is unable or unwilling to go up a level.
No Republican leader appears to have asked exactly what higher goal
would be served by impeaching the president and making Al Gore
president, or what alternative approaches might better serve this higher
goal. No Republican leader appears to have asked what might be gained by
censuring the President for lying to the public, his own cabinet, and
the Congress, and _not_ voting impeachment "to spare the country a
lengthy debilitating trial." No Republican leader seems to have asked
whether it would be better for the Republicans to face the electorate in
two years after a bipartisan vote of censure or after a party-line vote
for impeachment that seems likely to result in an acquittal. There is
surely a significant advantage in having one's opponents ignorant of
PCT, even if one's allies are too.
Bruce Gregory
[From Rupert Young (981222.1000 UT)]
Bruce Gregory (981221.1435 EDT)]
The Republican impeachment ...
Could you (or someone) explain exactly what impeachment is ? That is, the
actual process in the present context and the implications, as opposed to
censure ? For example, does impeachment necessarily result in the Pres. being
sacked ?
Regards,
Rupert
[From Bruce Gregory (981222.0615 EDT)]
Rupert Young (981222.1000 UT)]
Bruce Gregory (981221.1435 EDT)]
> The Republican impeachment ...
Could you (or someone) explain exactly what impeachment is ? That is, the
actual process in the present context and the implications, as opposed to
censure ? For example, does impeachment necessarily result in
the Pres. being
sacked ?
Impeachment is analogous to indictment. That is, it is a process in which
the House of Representatives says that sufficient evidence exists for the
Senate to try the President for "high crimes and misdemeanors" (otherwise
undefined). The Senate is obligated to begin a trial. But, as in any trial,
deals can be cut before a verdict is handed down. Most observers agree that
it is highly unlikely (some say unimaginable) that the President will be
sacked.
Bruce Gregory
) that he made some bad choices. Nothing