From [Marc Abrams (2004.12.24.1245)
In a message dated 12/24/2004 10:47:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, powers_w@FRONTIER.NET writes:
[From Bill Powers (2004.12.24.0739 MST)]
I guess that means either you know and are not going to tell us how a
perception can evoke a memory of another perception, or you don’t know and
don’t want anyone to find out.
Best (well, second best)
He may not but I can and will.
There are many different kinds of memory. Memory is not a monolithic entity. Again without boring you with details, one form of memory is called ‘Referential’ which is further sub-divided into ‘Explicit’ and ‘Implicit’ types. Explicit, also known as ‘declarative’ is the memory you are familiar with when you talk about ‘remembering’. That is, when you consciously remember a face, place, date, etc. This is a voluntary, intentional retrieval of a memory. Any and all conscious perceptions fit into this category.
Implicit memory, nondeclarative or nonconscious memory, is the unconconscious, unintentional retrieval of memory for performance of a learned activity or skill. one carries out such tasks unaware of that which one has learned and “retrieved” from memory. Playing a musical instrument, driving a car, etc all require and utilize both types of memory.
Marc
···
[From Richard Thurman (2004.12.24.1540)]
>Bill Powers (2004.12.22.1635 MST)
>
>>Richard Thurman (2004.12.22.1345)--
>
>I always start with a simple-minded literal implementation of an analogy
>and let things develop from there. When you code it and try it you'll find
>out what the difficulties are and presumably see some solutions.
>>So... using the above 'pseudocode' my cruise control system would get
the value '55' as the reference signal, even though the output of the
>>higher control system was '8'
>
That's a good start. Try it out and see what happens. Don't spend too much
time at the drawing board -- imagined difficulties are always harder to
>deal with than the ones you actually encounter.
OK -- I'll give it a shot.
However, I somehow get the feeling that we've miscommunicated
slightly. I really was not asking you if the 'memory' scheme I
mentioned would work. I was actually trying to clarify what you
meant in the memory chapter in BCP. I supplied a rather simplistic
example in the hopes that you would share with me (and CSGnet) a
little more detail of how memory would be used in an HPCT model. I
guess I was hoping that you would say something like, "Well... that's
a start but how about trying ......... instead." (That mode of
comparing and contrasting various ideas probably works better in
verbal conversations than email ones.)
So ... if you feel a desire to share a bit more, I'm all ears!
Nevertheless, I'm the one who opened this can of (really delicious)
worms -- so as a start I will follow through and implement a three
level model (the lowest level will receive its reference signal via a
one dimensional array of memory items).
With best wishes for a very Happy Christmas and a Peaceful New Year!
Rich Thurman
[From Shannon Williams (2004.12.24.1700)]
I love the subject line of this thread. Perhaps 'memory' is an emergent
property of the 'reference signals'. This would explain why change is so
hard, and why memories change as our beliefs (aka references) change.
Shannon
From [Marc Abrams (2004.12.24.1801)]
In a message dated 12/24/2004 5:50:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, sdollars@AIRMAIL.NET writes:
[From Shannon Williams (2004.12.24.1700)]
I love the subject line of this thread. Perhaps ‘memory’ is an emergent
property of the ‘reference signals’. This would explain why change is so
hard, and why memories change as our beliefs (aka references) change.
Shannon
If reference levels are not in memory, where can they possibly be from?
Memory’s are nothing more than stored old perceptions.
The problem with the current HPCT model is that all perceptions are currently derived from our external sensory receptors and this is simply not the case i the real world and as I have recently said, this is not an accurate portrayal. Perceptions are in fact a product of the brain and derive from the signals to our sensory cortexes and associated areas from both our memory and sensory receptors. Our perceptions are not constructed as portrayed in the HPCT hierarchy.
Change is ‘hard’ because control systems like to keep things constant, or as non variable as they can make them.
Marc
“Nothing is so firmly believed as that which least is known”
Montaigne
“Change is not made without inconvenience, even from worse to better.”
Richard Hooker (1554? - 1600)
English theologian.
From David Wolsk (2004.12.27.1525PST)
[From Bill Powers (2004.123.23.1650 MST)]
Bruce Abbott (2004.12.23.1815 EST)--
So, I'd be wary of trying to make the retrieval of memories a control
process.
These are all control processes, but that doesn't mean the association
itself is a control process (as you are pointing out).
All this got me thinking about a recent video of the young man,
initially brought to public attention as a savant with incredible
skills for drawing city scenes. In this case, he was in a helicopter
flying over London, making one pass in a circle. Once on land he began
drawing all he'd seen from the air. Unbelievably accurate and
complete. I certainly think of it as a control process in the B.C.P.
sense.
David
···
On Dec 23, 2004, at 4:02 PM, Bill Powers wrote: