Modeling concrete examples

RE: Modeling concrete examples
Bjorn Simonsen(2003.11.13;12:50 EuSt)–

[From Bill Powers(2003.11.13.0815 MST)]

    <Let's talk about the room temperature control. The first thing you have to set up in the model is the physics.

    A furnace, when turned on, sends heat at a constant rate into the room air. Heat is a unit of energy, measured

    in calories. The rate at which the furnace puts heat energy into the room air is measured in calories per

    second. If F stands for the rate of heat emission from the furnace in calories per second, then the amount of

    heat energy emitted in "dt" seconds is just F*dt.

    Heat energy is being lost through the walls and windows at a rate proportional to the temperature difference

    between inside and outside times the wall area A in square cm. The rate of heat loss is measured in calories

    per second. If T1 is the inside temperature and T2 is the outside temperature (both Celsius), and thermal

    conductivity is K, and the wall area is A, the rate of heat loss is K*A*(T1 - T2), where T2 is smaller than T1.

    The amount of heat lost in dt seconds is K*A*(T1 - T2)*dt.

    The _net_ flow of heat energy is the furnace output minus the heat loss rates, or F - K*A*(T1 - T2). So the

    total amount of heat energy H that flows into the air in a time of "dt" seconds is

    H = [F - K*A*(T1 - T2)]*dt. Note that it could be negative if the furnace doesn't put out heat at a high enough rate.

    The room has a certain mass of air in it, and the air has a specific heat that determines how many calories are

    require to raise the temperature of each gram of mass by 1 degree C. To compute the temperature rise, you

    divide the amount of heat put into the air by the total mass in grams, and multiply by the specific heat Let S be

    the specific heat, and M the total mass. The temperature rise for an amount of heat x is x*S/M. So if X is the

    net heat flow in time dt, the room air temperature rise in time dt would be

    change in T1 = [F - K*A*(T1 - T2)]*S/M*dt.>

Specific heat is how many calories are required to raise the temperature of each gram by 1 degree C. OK.

If you in your formula multiply the amount of heat, x with S/M and x has the denomination cal/second (F=210,000 Calories/second), the outcome will be

(FS/M-KA(T1-T2)S/M)dt[= (FS/M - LA*(T1-T2)*S/M)*dt

(cal/second)(cal/(gramdegree))/gram - (cal/cm2seconddegree)cm2degree*(cal/(gram*degree))/gram]=

Calcal/secondgamdegreegram - calcal/secondgram*degree

Did you misreport the formula?

Besides

    <For air, the numbers you need are:

    Specific heat S: 0.24 cal/gram 

    density 0.0011 grams/cubic cm

    Volume of room 50,000,000 cubic cm (4 x 5 x 2.5 meters)

    Mass of air = density * volume.

    The thermal conductivity of the walls is K: 1.2404

Here I have a problem with the denomination. Since you use calories, I thought it was 1.2404 cal/(cm2*second). The walls are 450,000cm2. The thermal loss from the walls will be 5,581,800 cal each second if the inside temperature is 4 and the outside temperature is -6 degrees. This is not reasonable if the furnace gives 21,000 cal/second.

I will use 1.2404 Wm2=J/(second*m2)

We will say arbitrarily that

Wall area A: 450,000 square cm (ignore floor and ceiling) =450000/(100100) m2 = 45 m2

Finally, the furnace output rate when turned on is

F = 210,000 Calories/second That’s like a small room heater. = 210000/0.24 J = 875000 wattsecond

You are the engineer, Bill . But this seems to me to be a powerful furnace (875 kwatt?)

I have used F = 210 calories/second

………………………………………………………

<I suggest that as a first step you simply set up a model of this part of the system. Starting with a given inside

    and outside temperature, you can turn on the furnace and start calculating the room temperature at intervals

    of one second (dt = 1). For each calculation, you compute the net heat gain and the temperature change,

    then add that change to the room temperature T1 to get the temperature for the next time around. Calculate

    1000 values in a table of temperatures,

    I think the numbers above a realistic, but I could have made mistakes. You can judge by seeing how much

    the room warms up in 15 minutes (1000 second). Try varying the outside temperature to see the effect.>

I have set up a model of this part of system. It is 1 MB so I have placed it in http://home.c2i.net/bjornsimonsen/termostat5.xls

When you have this much working we can talk about the temperature control system

I am thankful for comments from you.

PS. I have taken the spreadsheet away from the net, but I can’t stop working with it.

[From Rick Marken (2003.11.14.1210)]

I think it would be interesting to see if we could use this prototype control system as the basis for

    >building Bill's thermostat model. I'll give it a try too. Let's see what we come up with.

I hope you have some comments to my simple use of your model. I have put the slowing factor, leakage (through the wall :slight_smile: ) in my physical calculations. I am not sure about the gain in a technical model. And as you see, there is no disturbances other than the furnace which I have put in the feedback loop.

Bjorn

[From Bill Powers (2003.11.20.1400 MST)]

Bjorn Simonsen(2003.11.13;12:50
EuSt)–

[From
Bill Powers(2003.11.13.0815 MST)]

    <Let's talk about the room

temperature control. The first thing you have to set up in the model is
the physics.

change in T1 = [F - KA(T1 -
T2)]S/Mdt.>

Specific heat is how
many calories are required to raise the temperature of each gram by 1
degree C. OK.

If you in your formula multiply the amount of heat, x with S/M and x has
the denomination cal/second (F=210,000 Calories/second), the outcome will
be

(FS/M-KA(T1-T2)S/M)dt[= (FS/M - LA*(T1-T2)*S/M)*dt

(cal/second)(cal/(gramdegree))/gram -
(cal/cm2seconddegree)cm2degree*(cal/(gram*degree))/gram]=

Calcal/secondgamdegreegram - calcal/secondgram*degree

Did you misreport the
formula?

I agree that checking units is a good idea, and I should have done it. I
think the problem is in multiplying by the specific heat. If specific
heat is the amount of heat needed to increase the temperature by 1
degree, then to convert an amount of heat into a temperature difference,
it seems we should divide by specific heat, not multiply. The MORE heat
it takes to make a 1-deg difference, the LESS temperature rise you get
out of a given number of calories. Also, the greater the mass, the less
should be the temperature rise (the heat is spread out over more mass).
So yes, I made a mistake. The formula should read

change in T1 = [F - KA(T1 -
T2)]/S/M*dt., or more clearly,

F - KA(T1 - T2)

change in T1 = ---------------- * dt

S*M

Besides

<For air, the numbers you need
are:

    Specific heat S: 0.24 cal/gram


    density 0.0011 grams/cubic

cm

    Volume of room 50,000,000

cubic cm (4 x 5 x 2.5 meters)

    Mass of air = density *

volume.

The thermal conductivity of the walls
is K: 1.2404

Here I have a problem
with the denomination. Since you use calories, I thought it was 1.2404
cal/(cm2*second). The walls are 450,000cm2. The thermal loss from the
walls will be 5,581,800 cal each second if the inside temperature is 4
and the outside temperature is -6 degrees. This is not reasonable if the
furnace gives 21,000 cal/second.

The constant is 1.2404 (calories/sec) per degree C of temperature
difference, per square centimeter of area. This is the conversion from
units of BTU per square foot per second per degree F into cgs units. I
forgot (!) to then introduce the thermal conductivity of glass wool wall
insulation, which is given in my handbook in the BTU units. So we have to
multiply the 1.2404 by 0.29 and divide by 3600 (to go from BTU/hour to
BTU/sec).This changes the constant to

K = 0.0000999 (cal/(sec-deg-cm^2)

Now we can correct your result of 5.58E6 cal/sec to 549 cal/sec, You can
pick a furnace size to fit – perhaps 2400 cal/sec, or 10 KW.

Do you agree with my modified equation above, and the new value of K? If
so we can proceed to your model after you adjust these parts of it. If
you’d like to convert to a more convenient system of units, feel
free.

I’m sorry for making such careless mistakes, but very glad that you were
able to see them and fix them.

Best,

Bill P.