More or less responsible

{from Joel Judd 950209.0800 CST}

Bill wrote:

Living with other people is a problem of collision avoidance in
hyperspace.

Well, that explains it! And it's catchy! From time to time I've seen
some good candidates for csg-l bumper stickers. I can just imagine
stopping for gas at a truck stop in Nevada and seeing the above or
"Behavior: The Control of Perception" on a rotating display next to the
cash register. #-) {that's a bandaged head; I'm feeling a little giddy
this morning}

Actually, I've noticed myself realizing that I prefer less and less the
confrontational situations that used to seem to make life worthwhile.
It used to be fun to confront classroom teachers, or get a little jab in
here and there (well, OK, it STILL is sometimes), or have to prove
myself. But it's become rather tiring, for lack of a better word.

I think that's why I'll never make a million bucks (though one might ask
why I have the impression I NEED to in the first place). I'm happy if I
can use what I've learned for the benefit of others, and be able to
provide for my family doing so. The more I can do that without having
to resolve conflicts with others, the more pleasant things are.

Yet I also think that may be a long-winded description of "anti-social."
In any case, it's also a long-winded way of saying "I think I understand
'collision avoidance in hyperspace'."

Tom {on gun use}:

I am trying to understand why several participants on the net seem, to
me, to to talk about one kind of inanimate object as though it plays a
role of "cause" to the behavior called killing...Perhaps I am only
misreading some of you. I want to know.

My short reply to this is no, I don't think weapons are causes, they're
means.

If we were to remove guns, etc...would killing stop?

Well, the first recorded murder in Judeo-Christian literature occurred
with the jawbone of an ass--if that's not variable means to an end, I
don't know what is.

You can argue about what kind of statistics are used to compare, say,
Japan and the US on murders with guns. But the fact remains, if guns
aren't around, nobody gets killed with them. And the question remains,
in an urban, technological setting that is much of America today, with
plenty of food and other amenities practically at our fingertips, what
need is there for guns, much less semi-automatic assault rifles?
I brought up the gun scenario in the first place because I was trying to
work out what legal and social responsibility, informed by something
like PCT, would say about a profession like gun dealing. It's pretty
hard for me to conceive of a dealership that stocks AK-47s outside of
Cincinnati in a position to cloak itself in the Constitution or
simplistic platitudes and plead innocence. If you're going to take
advantage of society's members for your own benefit, then those members
might hold you responsible for some "indirect" effects.

But I didn't elaborate because I can understand that a model of behavior
is neutral with respect to what the organism does; other organisms make
judgments about behavior, not the model. And that's OK.

Joel

···

TO: CSG-L INTERNET Any user on the Internet, not at DESE Proj. Box

FROM: JUDDJ DESEINST Joel Judd - DESE - Division of Instruction

DATE: February 9, 1995
SUBJECT: Re: More or less responsible

<[Bill Leach 950210.04:11 EST(EDT)]

{Joel Judd 950209.0800 CST}

... But the fact remains, if guns aren't around, nobody gets killed
with them. And the question remains, in an urban, technological setting
that is much of America today, with plenty of food and other amenities
practically at our fingertips, what need is there for guns, much less
semi-automatic assault rifles? I brought up the gun scenario in the
first place because I was trying to work out what legal and social
responsibility, informed by something like PCT, would say about a
profession like gun dealing. It's pretty hard for me to conceive of a
dealership that stocks AK-47s outside of Cincinnati in a position to
cloak itself in the Constitution or simplistic platitudes and plead
innocence.

But I didn't elaborate because I can understand that a model of behavior
is neutral with respect to what the organism does; other organisms make
judgments about behavior, not the model. And that's OK.

Yeow! I probably should stay out of this one entirely but as is obvious,
I am not going to...

...and if there were no cars then no one would die in automobile
accidents either.

I won't belabor the point much but even with plenty of everything
humanity still seems to be able to produce those that will want something
that belongs to someone else (even their life) and at least a few people
that abhor violence feel that owning and knowing how to safely use
firearms provide some measure of security. Additional, shooting is still
a sport that most of us practice somewhere else beside the streets of New
York.

As to "assault rifles"... What is a semi-automatic assault rifle? The
assault rifles that I am familiar with are NOT semi-automatic!

If you're going to take advantage of society's members for your own
benefit, then those members might hold you responsible for some
"indirect" effects.

This is a horrible "can of worms". I nearly cringe at what I am about to
say but... In the loose use of the term "responsibility" this country
seems to be "hell bent for leather" an a path to try to isolate the
individual from the consequences of their actions and "pin" the costs on
anyone that might have deep pockets.

The fact that an idiot driving a fork-lift is too stupid to realize that
carrying a load that weighs a quarter of the machine's weight at the top
of the machine's lifting height while turning corners at maximum speed
might be dangerous is irrelevent in courts and the legislature. The
manufacture is responsible for failure to recognize fundamental physical
behaviour of mass in motion.

The person using a line powered hair drying in the bath tub, or at least
the next of kin are also compensated by the manufacture. Hell! The
minimum size of a ladder is now determined by the legally mandated
warning labels!

I am waiting for the food processing folks to have to "come up to speed".
I mean, gee guys they just put "refrigerate after opening" on most of
their products instead of a list of potential diseases that one might
contract. They are not even required to tell you how cold the
refrigerator should be.

But I didn't elaborate because I can understand that a model of behavior
is neutral with respect to what the organism does; other organisms make
judgments about behavior, not the model. And that's OK.

and thankfully you do admit that both what you have said and what I have
said is a matter of opinion... not natural law.

-bill