# Multi-Level Control Experiments and Consciousness

**URL:** <http://discourse.iapct.org/t/multi-level-control-experiments-and-consciousness/7400>\
**Category:** CSG2016\
**Created:** [September 24, 2016, 11:59am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/multi-level-control-experiments-and-consciousness/7400 "2016-09-24T11:59:10Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 8\
**Page:** 1

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![FredNickols](http://discourse.iapct.org/user_avatar/discourse.iapct.org/frednickols/32/2645_2.png) [@FredNickols](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/FredNickols)\
**Post date:** [September 24, 2016, 11:59am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/multi-level-control-experiments-and-consciousness/7400/1 "2016-09-24T11:59:10Z")

</div>

In the last paragraph of Bill’s paper titled “A Systems Approach to Consciousness” (see attached) he refers to some multi-level control experiments. Did he ever conduct those? Did anyone else? Have they been written up somewhere? Where?

P.S. Thanks to Rick Marken for sharing Bill’s paper a while back.

Regards,

Fred Nickols, Knowledge Worker

My Objective is to Help You Achieve Yours

**[DISTANCE CONSULTING LLC](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.nickols.us_&d=CwMFAg&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=olRTc4ccnRo5kY_QITLtD1TLPoNeKEQfZA-pzRmXK5o&s=bJaLadoVSTVER7eh16tCYGkXIKZp0bvTqoUOPJp3QCM&e=)**

_“Assistance at a Distance”_SM

[A Systems Approach to Consciousness - Powers.pdf](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/short-url/we38TPSSGQc5f8jj9FBd4aYvEpt.pdf) (1.41 MB)

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![rsmarken](http://discourse.iapct.org/user_avatar/discourse.iapct.org/rsmarken/32/3553_2.png) [@rsmarken](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/rsmarken)\
**Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 11:09pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/multi-level-control-experiments-and-consciousness/7400/2 "2016-09-25T23:09:12Z")

</div>

[From Rick Marken (2016.09.25.1610)]

> **···**
>
> On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 4:59 AM, Fred Nickols [fred@nickols.us](mailto:fred@nickols.us) wrote:
> 
> > FN: In the last paragraph of Bill’s paper titled “A Systems Approach to Consciousnessâ€? (see attached) he refers to some multi-level control experiments. Did he ever conduct those? Did anyone else? Have they been written up somewhere? Where?
> 
> RM: I don’t believe Bill or anyone else has followed up on this.
> 
> > Â
> 
> > FN: P.S. Thanks to Rick Marken for sharing Bill’s paper a while back.
> 
> RM: You’re welcome!
> 
> BestÂ
> 
> Rick
> 
> –
> 
> Richard S. MarkenÂ
> 
> “The childhood of the human race is far from over. We  
> have a long way to go before most people will understand that what they do for  
> others is just as important to their well-being as what they do for  
> themselves.” – William T. Powers

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![chadtgreen](http://discourse.iapct.org/user_avatar/discourse.iapct.org/chadtgreen/32/92_2.png) [@chadtgreen](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/chadtgreen)\
**Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 3:20pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/multi-level-control-experiments-and-consciousness/7400/3 "2016-09-26T15:20:19Z")

</div>

[From Chad Green (2016.09.26.1116 EST)]

Fred, thanks for sharing.

On p. 239 Powers writes: “If there can be any ultimate determinant of the way we learn to think and act, it must be in this set of inherited specifications for the state of the physical organism that calls for  
no change in behavioral organization.” Shouldn’t this metacontrol system serve as the highest level of HPCT?

This idea sounds similar to Bateson’s Learning IV (see p. 18):  
[  
http://www.ufhrd.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/12-2\_tosey.pdf](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ufhrd.co.uk_wordpress_wp-2Dcontent_uploads_2008_06_12-2D2-5Ftosey.pdf&d=CwMFAg&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=ma9YJVLOGHeDb51_tY3DCGGluMTAAqSMtJAXv3smXaU&s=lI3MfLRlPBz56nKv8BKyCsN3SpPaNQJ7ccZDzhk9aGo&e=) .

Best,

Chad

> **···**
>
> Chad T. Green, PMP  
> Research Office  
> Loudoun County Public Schools  
> 21000 Education Court  
> Ashburn, VA 20148  
> Voice: 571-252-1486  
> Fax: 571-252-1575
> 
> “We are not what we know but what we are willing to learn.” - Mary Catherine Bateson
> 
> **From:** Fred Nickols [[mailto:fred@nickols.us](mailto:fred@nickols.us)]  
> **Sent:** Saturday, September 24, 2016 7:59 AM  
> **To:** csgnet@lists.illinois.edu  
> **Subject:** Multi-Level Control Experiments and Consciousness
> 
> In the last paragraph of Bill’s paper titled “A Systems Approach to Consciousness” (see attached) he refers to some multi-level control experiments. Did he ever conduct those? Did anyone else? Have they been written up somewhere? Where?
> 
> P.S. Thanks to Rick Marken for sharing Bill’s paper a while back.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Fred Nickols, Knowledge Worker
> 
> My Objective is to Help You Achieve Yours
> 
> **[ DISTANCE  
> CONSULTING LLC](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.nickols.us_&d=CwMFAg&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=olRTc4ccnRo5kY_QITLtD1TLPoNeKEQfZA-pzRmXK5o&s=bJaLadoVSTVER7eh16tCYGkXIKZp0bvTqoUOPJp3QCM&e=)**
> 
> _“Assistance at a Distance”_SM

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![wmansell](http://discourse.iapct.org/user_avatar/discourse.iapct.org/wmansell/32/36_2.png) [@wmansell](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/wmansell)\
**Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/multi-level-control-experiments-and-consciousness/7400/4 "2016-09-26T15:35:12Z")

</div>

Hi Chad, it might be misleading to do that because all the other levels develop through experience and in succession as you go higher, whereas the intrinsic systems are there in any animal right from the start… Sometimes I think of the layers as the fillings in the sandwich with intrinsic control systems at the top and the body at the bottom. At other times I think of the perceptual hierarchy as completely orthogonal to the intrinsic systems with only reorganisation relating between them. This might explain why as adults we can often ‘transcend’ our intrinsic systems (enduring extreme pain, sacrifices, etc for higher level goals). I think the latter was what Bill intended…  
Warren

> **···**
>
> On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Chad T. Green [Chad.Green@lcps.org](mailto:Chad.Green@lcps.org) wrote:
> 
> > [From Chad Green (2016.09.26.1116 EST)]
> 
> > Fred, thanks for sharing.Â
> 
> > Â
> 
> > On p. 239 Powers writes: “If there can be any ultimate determinant of the way we learn to think and act, it must be in this set of inherited specifications for the state of the physical organism that calls for  
> > no change in behavioral organization.â€? Shouldn’t this metacontrol system serve as the highest level of HPCT?Â
> 
> > Â
> 
> > This idea sounds similar to Bateson’s Learning IV (see p. 18):  
> > [  
> > http://www.ufhrd.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/12-2\_tosey.pdf](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ufhrd.co.uk_wordpress_wp-2Dcontent_uploads_2008_06_12-2D2-5Ftosey.pdf&d=CwMFAg&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=ma9YJVLOGHeDb51_tY3DCGGluMTAAqSMtJAXv3smXaU&s=lI3MfLRlPBz56nKv8BKyCsN3SpPaNQJ7ccZDzhk9aGo&e=) .
> 
> > Â
> 
> > Best,
> 
> > Chad
> 
> > Â
> 
> > Chad T. Green, PMP
> > 
> > Research Office
> > 
> > Loudoun County Public Schools
> > 
> > 21000 Education Court
> > 
> > Ashburn, VA 20148
> > 
> > Voice: 571-252-1486
> > 
> > Fax: 571-252-1575
> 
> > Â
> 
> > “We are not what we know but what we are willing to learn.â€? - Mary Catherine Bateson
> 
> > Â
> 
> > **From:** Fred Nickols [[mailto:fred@nickols.us](mailto:fred@nickols.us)]  
> > **Sent:** Saturday, September 24, 2016 7:59 AM  
> > **To:** csgnet@lists.illinois.edu  
> > **Subject:** Multi-Level Control Experiments and Consciousness
> 
> > Â
> 
> > In the last paragraph of Bill’s paper titled “A Systems Approach to Consciousnessâ€? (see attached) he refers to some multi-level control experiments. Did he ever conduct those? Did anyone else? Have they been written up somewhere? Where?
> 
> > Â
> 
> > P.S. Thanks to Rick Marken for sharing Bill’s paper a while back.
> 
> > Â
> 
> > Regards,
> 
> > Â
> 
> > Fred Nickols, Knowledge Worker
> 
> > My Objective is to Help You Achieve Yours
> 
> > **[ DISTANCE  
> > CONSULTING LLC](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.nickols.us_&d=CwMFAg&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=olRTc4ccnRo5kY_QITLtD1TLPoNeKEQfZA-pzRmXK5o&s=bJaLadoVSTVER7eh16tCYGkXIKZp0bvTqoUOPJp3QCM&e=)**
> 
> > _“Assistance at a Distanceâ€?_SM
> 
> > Â
> 
> –  
> Dr Warren Mansell  
> Reader in Clinical Psychology
> 
> School of Health Sciences  
> 2nd Floor Zochonis Building  
> University of Manchester  
> Oxford Road  
> Manchester M13 9PL  
> Email: [warren.mansell@manchester.ac.uk](mailto:warren.mansell@manchester.ac.uk)  
> Â  
> Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 8589  
> Â  
> Website: [http://www.psych-sci.manchester.ac.uk/staff/131406](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.psych-2Dsci.manchester.ac.uk_staff_131406&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=USLcPE_rYzSt42ckx6dD7s9meajOCuDV942TJxIRvUI&s=RhyufEOg_KCE7ebrtQFiQ1q8oi9ihIIR_EuBTJQicAg&e=)  
> Â  
> Advanced notice of a new transdiagnostic therapy manual, authored by Carey, Mansell & Tai - [Principles-Based Counselling and Psychotherapy: A Method of Levels Approach](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.routledge.com_books_details_9780415738781_&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=USLcPE_rYzSt42ckx6dD7s9meajOCuDV942TJxIRvUI&s=Ol9nrzE_NItOgolQT_dS1YjIWbgo1aZ-x6ZSzs7-b70&e=)
> 
> Available Now
> 
> Check [www.pctweb.org](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.pctweb.org&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=USLcPE_rYzSt42ckx6dD7s9meajOCuDV942TJxIRvUI&s=XWZqu8Vn-JPOulrAZQopDfnrGKFNBoZ2HJJbxp5oazU&e=) for further information on Perceptual Control Theory

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![chadtgreen](http://discourse.iapct.org/user_avatar/discourse.iapct.org/chadtgreen/32/92_2.png) [@chadtgreen](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/chadtgreen)\
**Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 4:29pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/multi-level-control-experiments-and-consciousness/7400/5 "2016-09-26T16:29:02Z")

</div>

[From Chad Green (2016.09.26.1228 EST)]

Warren, are you suggesting that these intrinsic systems cannot be experienced?

Also, isn’t reorganization just PCT-speak for self-organization?

I joined this group for the purpose of understanding stochastic resonance, similar to what von Foerster dubbed the order-from-noise principle:  
[http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/ordnoise.html](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__pespmc1.vub.ac.be_ordnoise.html&d=CwMGaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=gGcMeyC0UlAu9KhQRc9I5ctxTQh17SBL_Jpb02_-yGs&s=V_2ME0ZaRDzPmFFbnjoPZ3L9d0LP9RMDaH3bebLZetc&e=) . According to cyberneticist Robert Vallée (1990), “Noise does not create order, but it is an excellent structure displayer. If order can be thus generated by noise,  
it is by means of an already existing structure, possibly not very evident, or under the influence of constraints, at times quite unobstrusive. Noise, nonetheless, plays a very important role as a trigger for the emergence of order in what is called self-organization  
or autopoiesis of a system.�

Would noise serve as a good candidate for the top of HPCT?

Best,

Chad

Chad T. Green, PMP

Research Office

Loudoun County Public Schools

21000 Education Court

Ashburn, VA 20148

Voice: 571-252-1486

Fax: 571-252-1575

“We are not what we know but what we are willing to learn.â€? - Mary Catherine Bateson

> **···**
>
> Hi Chad, it might be misleading to do that because all the other levels develop through experience and in succession as you go higher, whereas the intrinsic systems are there in any animal right from the start… Sometimes I think of the  
> layers as the fillings in the sandwich with intrinsic control systems at the top and the body at the bottom. At other times I think of the perceptual hierarchy as completely orthogonal to the intrinsic systems with only reorganisation relating between them.  
> This might explain why as adults we can often ‘transcend’ our intrinsic systems (enduring extreme pain, sacrifices, etc for higher level goals). I think the latter was what Bill intended…
> 
> Warren
> 
> On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Chad T. Green [Chad.Green@lcps.org](mailto:Chad.Green@lcps.org) wrote:
> 
> > [From Chad Green (2016.09.26.1116 EST)]
> 
> > Fred, thanks for sharing.
> 
> > 
> 
> > On p. 239 Powers writes: “If there can be any ultimate determinant of the way we learn to think and act, it must be in this set of inherited specifications  
> > for the state of the physical organism that calls for no change in behavioral organization.â€? Shouldn’t this metacontrol system serve as the highest level of HPCT?
> 
> > 
> 
> > This idea sounds similar to Bateson’s Learning IV (see p. 18):  
> > [
> > 
> > [http://www.ufhrd.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/12-2\_tosey.pdf](http://www.ufhrd.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/12-2_tosey.pdf)]([https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A\_\_www.ufhrd.co.uk\_wordpress\_wp-2Dcontent\_uploads\_2008\_06\_12-2D2-5Ftosey.pdf&d=CwMFAg&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj\_KjGi2LMO\_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=ma9YJVLOGHeDb51\_tY3DCGGluMTAAqSMtJAXv3smXaU&s=lI3MfLRlPBz56nKv8BKyCsN3SpPaNQJ7ccZDzhk9aGo&e=](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ufhrd.co.uk_wordpress_wp-2Dcontent_uploads_2008_06_12-2D2-5Ftosey.pdf&d=CwMFAg&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=ma9YJVLOGHeDb51_tY3DCGGluMTAAqSMtJAXv3smXaU&s=lI3MfLRlPBz56nKv8BKyCsN3SpPaNQJ7ccZDzhk9aGo&e=)) .
> 
> > 
> 
> > Best,
> 
> > Chad
> 
> > 
> 
> > Chad T. Green, PMP
> > 
> > Research Office
> > 
> > Loudoun County Public Schools
> > 
> > 21000 Education Court
> > 
> > Ashburn, VA 20148
> > 
> > Voice: 571-252-1486
> > 
> > Fax: 571-252-1575
> 
> > 
> 
> > “We are not what we know but what we are willing to learn.â€? - Mary Catherine Bateson
> 
> > 
> 
> > **From:** Fred Nickols [[mailto:fred@nickols.us](mailto:fred@nickols.us)  
> > ]  
> > **Sent:** Saturday, September 24, 2016 7:59 AM  
> > **To:** csgnet@lists.illinois.edu  
> > **Subject:** Multi-Level Control Experiments and Consciousness
> 
> > In the last paragraph of Bill’s paper titled “A Systems Approach to Consciousnessâ€? (see attached) he refers to some multi-level control experiments. Did he ever conduct those?  
> > Did anyone else? Have they been written up somewhere? Where?
> 
> > P.S. Thanks to Rick Marken for sharing Bill’s paper a while back.
> 
> > Regards,
> 
> > Fred Nickols, Knowledge Worker
> 
> > My Objective is to Help You Achieve Yours
> 
> > **[  
> > DISTANCE  
> > CONSULTING LLC](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.nickols.us_&d=CwMFAg&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=olRTc4ccnRo5kY_QITLtD1TLPoNeKEQfZA-pzRmXK5o&s=bJaLadoVSTVER7eh16tCYGkXIKZp0bvTqoUOPJp3QCM&e=)**
> 
> > _“Assistance at a Distanceâ€?_SM
> 
> –
> 
> Dr Warren Mansell
> 
> Reader in Clinical Psychology
> 
> School of Health Sciences
> 
> 2nd Floor Zochonis Building
> 
> University of Manchester
> 
> Oxford Road
> 
> Manchester M13 9PL
> 
> Email: [warren.mansell@manchester.ac.uk](mailto:warren.mansell@manchester.ac.uk)
> 
> Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 8589
> 
> Website: [
> 
> [http://www.psych-sci.manchester.ac.uk/staff/131406](http://www.psych-sci.manchester.ac.uk/staff/131406)]([Warren Mansell — Research Explorer The University of Manchester](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.psych-2Dsci.manchester.ac.uk_staff_131406&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=USLcPE_rYzSt42ckx6dD7s9meajOCuDV942TJxIRvUI&s=RhyufEOg_KCE7ebrtQFiQ1q8oi9ihIIR_EuBTJQicAg&e=))
> 
> Advanced notice of a new transdiagnostic therapy manual, authored by Carey, Mansell & Tai -  
> [
> 
> Principles-Based Counselling and Psychotherapy: A Method of Levels Approach]([https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A\_\_www.routledge.com\_books\_details\_9780415738781\_&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj\_KjGi2LMO\_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=USLcPE\_rYzSt42ckx6dD7s9meajOCuDV942TJxIRvUI&s=Ol9nrzE\_NItOgolQT\_dS1YjIWbgo1aZ-x6ZSzs7-b70&e=](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.routledge.com_books_details_9780415738781_&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=USLcPE_rYzSt42ckx6dD7s9meajOCuDV942TJxIRvUI&s=Ol9nrzE_NItOgolQT_dS1YjIWbgo1aZ-x6ZSzs7-b70&e=))
> 
> Available Now
> 
> Check [
> 
> [www.pctweb.org](http://www.pctweb.org)]([https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A\_\_www.pctweb.org&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj\_KjGi2LMO\_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=USLcPE\_rYzSt42ckx6dD7s9meajOCuDV942TJxIRvUI&s=XWZqu8Vn-JPOulrAZQopDfnrGKFNBoZ2HJJbxp5oazU&e=](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.pctweb.org&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=USLcPE_rYzSt42ckx6dD7s9meajOCuDV942TJxIRvUI&s=XWZqu8Vn-JPOulrAZQopDfnrGKFNBoZ2HJJbxp5oazU&e=)) for further information on Perceptual Control Theory

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![COOMB\_TIMOTHY](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/65b543/32.png) [@COOMB\_TIMOTHY](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/COOMB_TIMOTHY)\
**Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 5:09pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/multi-level-control-experiments-and-consciousness/7400/6 "2016-09-26T17:09:28Z")

</div>

[From Chad Green (2016.09.26.1228 EST)]

Warren, are you suggesting that these intrinsic systems cannot be experienced?

Also, isn’t reorganization just PCT-speak for self-organization?

I joined this group for the purpose of understanding stochastic resonance, similar to what von Foerster dubbed the order-from-noise principle: [http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/ordnoise.html](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__pespmc1.vub.ac.be_ordnoise.html&d=CwMGa%0D%0A%20Q&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=gGcMeyC0UlAu9KhQRc9I5ctxTQh17SBL_Jpb02_-yGs&s=V_2ME0ZaRDzPmFFbnjoPZ3L9d0LP9RMDaH3bebLZetc&e=) . According to cyberneticist Robert Vallée (1990), “Noise does not create order, but it is an excellent structure displayer. If order can be thus generated by noise, it is by means of an already existing structure, possibly not very evident, or under the influence of constraints, at times quite unobstrusive. Noise, nonetheless, plays a very important role as a trigger for the emergence of order in what is called self-organization or autopoiesis of a system.”

Would noise serve as a good candidate for the top of HPCT?

Best,

Chad

Chad T. Green, PMP  
Research Office  
Loudoun County Public Schools  
21000 Education Court  
Ashburn, VA 20148  
Voice: 571-252-1486  
Fax: 571-252-1575

“We are not what we know but what we are willing to learn.” - Mary Catherine Bateson

> **···**
>
> Hi Chad, it might be misleading to d  
> o that because all the other levels develop through experience and in succession as you go higher, whereas the intrinsic systems are there in any animal right from the start… Sometimes I think of the layers as the fillings in the sandwich with intrinsic control systems at the top and the body at the bottom. At other times I think of the perceptual hierarchy as completely orthogonal to the intrinsic systems with only reorganisation relating between them. This might explain why as adults we can often ‘transcend’ our intrinsic systems (enduring extreme pain, sacrifices, etc for higher level goals). I think the latter was what Bill intended…
> 
> Warren
> 
> On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Chad T. Green [Chad.Green@lcps.org](mailto:Chad.Green@lcps.org) wrote:
> 
> > [From Chad Green (2016.09.26.1116 EST)]
> 
> > Fred, thanks for sharing.
> 
> > 
> 
> > On p. 239 Powers writes: “If there can be any ultimate determinant of the way we learn to think and act, it must be in this set of inherited specifications for the state of the physical organism that calls for no change in behavioral organization.” Shouldn’t this metacontrol system serve as the highest level of HPCT?
> 
> > 
> 
> > This idea sounds similar to Bateson’s Learning IV (see p. 18): [http://www.ufhrd.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/12-2\_tosey.pdf](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ufhrd.co.uk_wordpress_wp-2Dco%0D%0A%20ntent_uploads_2008_06_12-2D2-5Ftosey.pdf&d=CwMFAg&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=ma9YJVLOGHeDb51_tY3DCGGluMTAAqSMtJAXv3smXaU&s=lI3MfLRlPBz56nKv8BKyCsN3SpPaNQJ7ccZDzhk9aGo&e=) .
> 
> > 
> 
> > Best,
> 
> > Chad
> 
> > 
> 
> > Chad T. Green, PMP  
> > Research Office  
> > Loudoun County Public Schools  
> > 21000 Education Court  
> > Ashburn, VA 20148  
> > Voice: 571-252-1486  
> > Fax: 571-252-1575
> 
> > 
> 
> > “We are not what we know but what we are willing to learn.” - Mary Catherine Bateson
> 
> > 
> 
> > **From:** Fred Nickols [[mailto:fred@nickols.us](mailto:fred@nickols.us)]  
> > **Sent:** Saturday, September 24, 2016 7:59 AM  
> > **To:** csgnet@lists.illinois.edu  
> > **Subject:** Multi-Level Control Experiments and Consciousness
> 
> > In the last paragraph of Bill’s paper titled “A Systems Approach to Consciousness” (see attached) he refers to some multi-level control experiments. Did he ever conduct those? Did anyone else? Have they been written up somewhere? Where?
> 
> > P.S. Thanks to Rick Marken for sharing Bill’s paper a while back.
> 
> > Regards,
> 
> > Fred Nickols, Knowledge Worker
> 
> > My Objective is to Help You Achieve Yours
> 
> > **[DISTANCE CONSULTING LLC](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.nickols.us_&d=CwMFAg&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=olRTc4ccnRo5kY_QITLtD1TLPoNeKEQfZA-pzRmXK5o&s=bJaLadoVSTVER7eh16tCYGkXIKZp0bvTqoUOPJp3QCM&e=)**
> 
> > _“Assistance at a Distance”_SM
> 
> –
> 
> Dr Warren Mansell  
> Reader in Clinical Psychology
> 
> School of Health Sciences  
> 2nd Floor Zochonis Building  
> University of Manchester  
> Oxford Road  
> Manchester M13 9PL  
> Email: [warren.mansell@manchester.ac.uk](mailto:warren.mansell@manchester.ac.uk)
> 
> Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 8589
> 
> Website: [http://www.psych-sci.manchester.ac.uk/staff/131406](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.psych-%0D%0A%202Dsci.manchester.ac.uk_staff_131406&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=USLcPE_rYzSt42ckx6dD7s9meajOCuDV942TJxIRvUI&s=RhyufEOg_KCE7ebrtQFiQ1q8oi9ihIIR_EuBTJQicAg&e=)
> 
> Advanced notice of a new transdiagnostic therapy manual, authored by Carey, Mansell & Tai - [Principles-Based Counselling and Psychotherapy: A Method of Levels Approach](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.routledge.com_books_details_9780415738781_&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=USLcPE_rYzSt42ckx6dD7s9meajOCuDV942TJxIRvUI&s=Ol9nrzE_NItOgolQT_dS1YjIWbgo1aZ-x6ZSzs7-b70&e=)
> 
> Available Now
> 
> Check [www.pctweb.org](https://urldefen%0D%0A%20se.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.pctweb.org&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=USLcPE_rYzSt42ckx6dD7s9meajOCuDV942TJxIRvUI&s=XWZqu8Vn-JPOulrAZQopDfnrGKFNBoZ2HJJbxp5oazU&e=) for further information on Perceptual Control Theory

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![chadtgreen](http://discourse.iapct.org/user_avatar/discourse.iapct.org/chadtgreen/32/92_2.png) [@chadtgreen](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/chadtgreen)\
**Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 5:20pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/multi-level-control-experiments-and-consciousness/7400/7 "2016-09-26T17:20:21Z")

</div>

[From Chad Green (2016.09.26.1320 EST)]

Warren, on second thought, yes! I do see what you mean by the latter scenario. What if we imagined these orthogonal systems as converging at the top with the  
most bottom level(s) driven by a stochastic double-well potential pictured here:  
[http://www.physik.uni-bielefeld.de/~reimann/RESEARCH/SR.html](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.physik.uni-2Dbielefeld.de_-7Ereimann_RESEARCH_SR.html&d=CwMGaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=U5ueXnwKiyeNMb6amSI-yo36Dih3LMW-AkV71NwWYh8&s=51da0FUgzVBln1QX79xqnroXY-N2b7EQk-I63G5YEC8&e=) ?

Best,

Chad

Chad T. Green, PMP

Research Office

Loudoun County Public Schools

21000 Education Court

Ashburn, VA 20148

Voice: 571-252-1486

Fax: 571-252-1575

“We are not what we know but what we are willing to learn.â€? - Mary Catherine Bateson

> **···**
>
> Hi Chad, it might be misleading to do that because all the other levels develop through experience and in succession as you go higher, whereas the intrinsic systems are there in any animal right from the start… Sometimes I think of the  
> layers as the fillings in the sandwich with intrinsic control systems at the top and the body at the bottom. At other times I think of the perceptual hierarchy as completely orthogonal to the intrinsic systems with only reorganisation relating between them.  
> This might explain why as adults we can often ‘transcend’ our intrinsic systems (enduring extreme pain, sacrifices, etc for higher level goals). I think the latter was what Bill intended…
> 
> Warren
> 
> On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Chad T. Green [Chad.Green@lcps.org](mailto:Chad.Green@lcps.org) wrote:
> 
> > [From Chad Green (2016.09.26.1116 EST)]
> 
> > Fred, thanks for sharing.
> 
> > 
> 
> > On p. 239 Powers writes: “If there can be any ultimate determinant of the way we learn to think and act, it must be in this set of inherited specifications  
> > for the state of the physical organism that calls for no change in behavioral organization.â€? Shouldn’t this metacontrol system serve as the highest level of HPCT?
> 
> > 
> 
> > This idea sounds similar to Bateson’s Learning IV (see p. 18):  
> > [
> > 
> > [http://www.ufhrd.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/12-2\_tosey.pdf](http://www.ufhrd.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/12-2_tosey.pdf)]([https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A\_\_www.ufhrd.co.uk\_wordpress\_wp-2Dcontent\_uploads\_2008\_06\_12-2D2-5Ftosey.pdf&d=CwMFAg&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj\_KjGi2LMO\_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=ma9YJVLOGHeDb51\_tY3DCGGluMTAAqSMtJAXv3smXaU&s=lI3MfLRlPBz56nKv8BKyCsN3SpPaNQJ7ccZDzhk9aGo&e=](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ufhrd.co.uk_wordpress_wp-2Dcontent_uploads_2008_06_12-2D2-5Ftosey.pdf&d=CwMFAg&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=ma9YJVLOGHeDb51_tY3DCGGluMTAAqSMtJAXv3smXaU&s=lI3MfLRlPBz56nKv8BKyCsN3SpPaNQJ7ccZDzhk9aGo&e=)) .
> 
> > 
> 
> > Best,
> 
> > Chad
> 
> > 
> 
> > Chad T. Green, PMP
> > 
> > Research Office
> > 
> > Loudoun County Public Schools
> > 
> > 21000 Education Court
> > 
> > Ashburn, VA 20148
> > 
> > Voice: 571-252-1486
> > 
> > Fax: 571-252-1575
> 
> > 
> 
> > “We are not what we know but what we are willing to learn.â€? - Mary Catherine Bateson
> 
> > 
> 
> > **From:** Fred Nickols [[mailto:fred@nickols.us](mailto:fred@nickols.us)  
> > ]  
> > **Sent:** Saturday, September 24, 2016 7:59 AM  
> > **To:** csgnet@lists.illinois.edu  
> > **Subject:** Multi-Level Control Experiments and Consciousness
> 
> > In the last paragraph of Bill’s paper titled “A Systems Approach to Consciousnessâ€? (see attached) he refers to some multi-level control experiments. Did he ever conduct those?  
> > Did anyone else? Have they been written up somewhere? Where?
> 
> > P.S. Thanks to Rick Marken for sharing Bill’s paper a while back.
> 
> > Regards,
> 
> > Fred Nickols, Knowledge Worker
> 
> > My Objective is to Help You Achieve Yours
> 
> > **[  
> > DISTANCE  
> > CONSULTING LLC](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.nickols.us_&d=CwMFAg&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=olRTc4ccnRo5kY_QITLtD1TLPoNeKEQfZA-pzRmXK5o&s=bJaLadoVSTVER7eh16tCYGkXIKZp0bvTqoUOPJp3QCM&e=)**
> 
> > _“Assistance at a Distanceâ€?_SM
> 
> –
> 
> Dr Warren Mansell
> 
> Reader in Clinical Psychology
> 
> School of Health Sciences
> 
> 2nd Floor Zochonis Building
> 
> University of Manchester
> 
> Oxford Road
> 
> Manchester M13 9PL
> 
> Email: [warren.mansell@manchester.ac.uk](mailto:warren.mansell@manchester.ac.uk)
> 
> Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 8589
> 
> Website: [
> 
> [http://www.psych-sci.manchester.ac.uk/staff/131406](http://www.psych-sci.manchester.ac.uk/staff/131406)]([https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A\_\_www.psych-2Dsci.manchester.ac.uk\_staff\_131406&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj\_KjGi2LMO\_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=USLcPE\_rYzSt42ckx6dD7s9meajOCuDV942TJxIRvUI&s=RhyufEOg\_KCE7ebrtQFiQ1q8oi9ihIIR\_EuBTJQicAg&e=](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.psych-2Dsci.manchester.ac.uk_staff_131406&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=USLcPE_rYzSt42ckx6dD7s9meajOCuDV942TJxIRvUI&s=RhyufEOg_KCE7ebrtQFiQ1q8oi9ihIIR_EuBTJQicAg&e=))
> 
> Advanced notice of a new transdiagnostic therapy manual, authored by Carey, Mansell & Tai -  
> [
> 
> Principles-Based Counselling and Psychotherapy: A Method of Levels Approach]([https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A\_\_www.routledge.com\_books\_details\_9780415738781\_&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj\_KjGi2LMO\_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=USLcPE\_rYzSt42ckx6dD7s9meajOCuDV942TJxIRvUI&s=Ol9nrzE\_NItOgolQT\_dS1YjIWbgo1aZ-x6ZSzs7-b70&e=](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.routledge.com_books_details_9780415738781_&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=USLcPE_rYzSt42ckx6dD7s9meajOCuDV942TJxIRvUI&s=Ol9nrzE_NItOgolQT_dS1YjIWbgo1aZ-x6ZSzs7-b70&e=))
> 
> Available Now
> 
> Check [
> 
> [www.pctweb.org](http://www.pctweb.org)]([https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A\_\_www.pctweb.org&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj\_KjGi2LMO\_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=USLcPE\_rYzSt42ckx6dD7s9meajOCuDV942TJxIRvUI&s=XWZqu8Vn-JPOulrAZQopDfnrGKFNBoZ2HJJbxp5oazU&e=](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.pctweb.org&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=USLcPE_rYzSt42ckx6dD7s9meajOCuDV942TJxIRvUI&s=XWZqu8Vn-JPOulrAZQopDfnrGKFNBoZ2HJJbxp5oazU&e=)) for further information on Perceptual Control Theory

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![wmansell](http://discourse.iapct.org/user_avatar/discourse.iapct.org/wmansell/32/36_2.png) [@wmansell](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/wmansell)\
**Post date:** [September 26, 2016, 8:17pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/multi-level-control-experiments-and-consciousness/7400/8 "2016-09-26T20:17:34Z")

</div>

[From Chad Green (2016.09.26.1320 EST)]

Warren, on second thought, yes! I do see what you mean by the latter scenario. What if we imagined these orthogonal systems as converging at the top with the  
most bottom level(s) driven by a stochastic double-well potential pictured here:  
[http://www.physik.uni-bielefeld.de/~reimann/RESEARCH/SR.html](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.physik.uni-2Dbielefeld.de_-7Ereimann_RESEARCH_SR.html&d=CwMGaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=U5ueXnwKiyeNMb6amSI-yo36Dih3LMW-AkV71NwWYh8&s=51da0FUgzVBln1QX79xqnroXY-N2b7EQk-I63G5YEC8&e=) ?

Best,

Chad

Chad T. Green, PMP  
Research Office  
Loudoun County Public Schools  
21000 Education Court  
Ashburn, VA 20148  
Voice: 571-252-1486  
Fax: 571-252-1575

“We are not what we know but what we are willing to learn.� - Mary Catherine Bateson

> **···**
>
> Hi Chad, it might be misleading to do that because all the other levels develop through experience and in succession as you go higher, whereas the intrinsic systems are there in any animal right from the start… Sometimes I think of the  
> layers as the fillings in the sandwich with intrinsic control systems at the top and the body at the bottom. At other times I think of the perceptual hierarchy as completely orthogonal to the intrinsic systems with only reorganisation relating between them.  
> This might explain why as adults we can often ‘transcend’ our intrinsic systems (enduring extreme pain, sacrifices, etc for higher level goals). I think the latter was what Bill intended…
> 
> Warren
> 
> On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Chad T. Green [Chad.Green@lcps.org](mailto:Chad.Green@lcps.org) wrote:
> 
> > [From Chad Green (2016.09.26.1116 EST)]
> 
> > Fred, thanks for sharing.
> 
> > 
> 
> > On p. 239 Powers writes: “If there can be any ultimate determinant of the way we learn to think and act, it must be in this set of inherited specifications  
> > for the state of the physical organism that calls for no change in behavioral organization.� Shouldn’t this metacontrol system serve as the highest level of HPCT?
> 
> > 
> 
> > This idea sounds similar to Bateson’s Learning IV (see p. 18):  
> > [  
> > http://www.ufhrd.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/12-2\_tosey.pdf](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ufhrd.co.uk_wordpress_wp-2Dcontent_uploads_2008_06_12-2D2-5Ftosey.pdf&d=CwMFAg&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=ma9YJVLOGHeDb51_tY3DCGGluMTAAqSMtJAXv3smXaU&s=lI3MfLRlPBz56nKv8BKyCsN3SpPaNQJ7ccZDzhk9aGo&e=) .
> 
> > 
> 
> > Best,
> 
> > Chad
> 
> > 
> 
> > Chad T. Green, PMP
> > 
> > Research Office
> > 
> > Loudoun County Public Schools
> > 
> > 21000 Education Court
> > 
> > Ashburn, VA 20148
> > 
> > Voice: 571-252-1486
> > 
> > Fax: 571-252-1575
> 
> > 
> 
> > “We are not what we know but what we are willing to learn.� - Mary Catherine Bateson
> 
> > 
> 
> > **From:** Fred Nickols [[mailto:fred@nickols.us](mailto:fred@nickols.us)]  
> > **Sent:** Saturday, September 24, 2016 7:59 AM  
> > **To:** csgnet@lists.illinois.edu  
> > **Subject:** Multi-Level Control Experiments and Consciousness
> 
> > In the last paragraph of Bill’s paper titled “A Systems Approach to Consciousness� (see attached) he refers to some multi-level control experiments. Did he ever conduct those?  
> > Did anyone else? Have they been written up somewhere? Where?
> 
> > P.S. Thanks to Rick Marken for sharing Bill’s paper a while back.
> 
> > Regards,
> 
> > Fred Nickols, Knowledge Worker
> 
> > My Objective is to Help You Achieve Yours
> 
> > **[ DISTANCE  
> > CONSULTING LLC](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.nickols.us_&d=CwMFAg&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=olRTc4ccnRo5kY_QITLtD1TLPoNeKEQfZA-pzRmXK5o&s=bJaLadoVSTVER7eh16tCYGkXIKZp0bvTqoUOPJp3QCM&e=)**
> 
> > _“Assistance at a Distance�_SM
> 
> –
> 
> Dr Warren Mansell  
> Reader in Clinical Psychology
> 
> School of Health Sciences  
> 2nd Floor Zochonis Building  
> University of Manchester  
> Oxford Road  
> Manchester M13 9PL  
> Email: [warren.mansell@manchester.ac.uk](mailto:warren.mansell@manchester.ac.uk)
> 
> Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 8589
> 
> Website: [  
> http://www.psych-sci.manchester.ac.uk/staff/131406](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.psych-2Dsci.manchester.ac.uk_staff_131406&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=USLcPE_rYzSt42ckx6dD7s9meajOCuDV942TJxIRvUI&s=RhyufEOg_KCE7ebrtQFiQ1q8oi9ihIIR_EuBTJQicAg&e=)
> 
> Advanced notice of a new transdiagnostic therapy manual, authored by Carey, Mansell & Tai -  
> [  
> Principles-Based Counselling and Psychotherapy: A Method of Levels Approach](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.routledge.com_books_details_9780415738781_&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=USLcPE_rYzSt42ckx6dD7s9meajOCuDV942TJxIRvUI&s=Ol9nrzE_NItOgolQT_dS1YjIWbgo1aZ-x6ZSzs7-b70&e=)
> 
> Available Now
> 
> Check [  
> www.pctweb.org](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.pctweb.org&d=CwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=USLcPE_rYzSt42ckx6dD7s9meajOCuDV942TJxIRvUI&s=XWZqu8Vn-JPOulrAZQopDfnrGKFNBoZ2HJJbxp5oazU&e=) for further information on Perceptual Control Theory