Myelination and Reorganization

[From Bjorn Simonsen (2005,01,05;11:22 EST)]
Martin Taylor 2005.01.01.00.22
Thank you Martin for your "New Year's Manifesto II". It stimulated me to
re-read Bill's thoughts about learning in B:CP.
Based on B:CP I will refer some of Bill's basic statements (and yours).
Then I will refer to some of my neuroanatomical and neurophysiological
knowledge. At the end I will mention something we all know, but something I
never have seen related to Reorganization.
I write this mail to revise my knowledge about Reorganization. If some of
you think I misunderstand Reorganization in any way, please comment on it.
Basic statements.
1. Reorganization is an operation on a system, not by a system (179).
2. .... The entire hierarchy of control systems results from a
reorganization process which begins with an unorganized nervous system, ...
(181)
3. The model I propose is based on the idea that there is a separate
inherited organization responsible for changes in organization of the
malleable part of the nervous system - the part that eventually becomes the
hierarchy of perception and control. This reorganizing system may prove to
be no more than a convenient fiction; its functions and properties may some
day prove to be aspects of the same systems that become organized (182).
4. The controlled quantity associated with the reorganization system
consists of a set of quantities affected by the physiological state of the
organism (184).
5. To present the fact that each intrinsic quantity has a genetically
preferred state, we will provide the reorganization system with intrinsic
reference signals. .......... This stored information may prove to be the
message carried in our genes (184).
6. The output function of the reorganization system thus produces an effect
we can define without specifying the mode of action; reorganization (185).
7. ..........Nevertheless, changes in behavioral organization will affect
the intrinsic state of the organism, there is feedback. .... And this
feedback is negative. (186).
8. - the process of reorganization is independent of the kind of behavior
being reorganized. It depends only on the effects the bahavior has on
intrinsic state (187).
9. The real intent behind this model is to establish a concept of this kind
of learning process, .................. . Overly general as this model is,
it nevertheless offers the hope of finding physically plausible principles
underlying all the major regularities in learning of this basic kind (189).
10. Extinction, by the way, could be caused in two totally different ways.
It could result from reorganization that destroys a previous organization,
or ...... (192).

Neuro anatomical statements.
A. In the Brain there is one type of glial cells; Schwann cells. They wrap
around the axons in the peripheral nervous system and form a myelin sheath.
The nervous system depends crucially on this sheath for insulation and an
increase in impulse speed.
B. In the first months of living, much myelin is formed in cortex.
Generation of myelin is continued till the child is fifteen years old, and
it still continues. I think the tightness of myelin can continue till the
age of sixty.
C. Nine months after conception, we have got all the neurons we shall use
for the rest of our life and they have found their right place. But the
neurons do not function very well
D. Already in the first month of living, the child has some reflexes. One is
a descending movement with that arm. If I am right this is the forerunner of
the more advanced gripping power. I shall not go in detail, but the gripping
power is a really complex movement and it is possible when the necessary
control loops function effectively.
E. During the first years of a child's life it is formed a lot of myelin in
cortex. Myelin is an electrically insulating fatty layer that surrounds the
axons of many neurons, especially those in the peripheral nervous system. It
is an outgrowth of glial cells: Schwann cells supply the myelin for
peripheral neurons while oligodendrocytes supply it to those of the central
system. The main consequence of a myelin layer (or sheath) is an increase in
the speed at which impulses propagate along the myelinated fiber. Along
unmyelinated fibers impulses move continuously as waves, but in myelinated
fibers they hop (or "propagate by saltation"). When a fiber is severed, the
myelin sheath provides a track along which regrowth can occur. Unmyelinated
fibers do not regenerate. Demyelination is a loss of myelin and is the root
cause of symptoms experienced by patients with diseases such as multiple
sclerosis and transverse myelitis. Heavy metal poisoning may lead to
demyelination. When an axon's myelin degrades due to these diseases,
conduction can be impaired or lost.
F. A gene is a part of a chromosome, a part of DNA. It codes for a RNA
molecule. Most RNA molecules are mRNA (messenger RNA). They are produced in
nucleus and transported too the cytoplasm where ribosomes decode the mRNA.
The robosome translates mRNA into a polypeptide chain (e.g., a protein). It
can be thought of as a factory that builds a protein from a set of genetic
instructions.
G. The myelin specific genes, P0 and MBP, are constitutive and the level of
myelinspecific mRNAs is modulated by axonal contact and myelin assembly. (A.
C. LeBlanc, Dr. J. F. Poduslo )
H. Some myelin genes are dependent on continuous signals from the ingrowing
axons..S. K. Gupta 1, J. Pringle 1, J. F. Poduslo 1 2, Dr. Catherine Mezei
1 )

What we all know, but something I never have seen related to Reorganizing.
I think man has about 35000 genes. They codes for a RNA (mRNA) and they are
responsible for the production of certain proteins. All DNA from a human is
the human Genome. The Genome is constant. It is an expression for (go to 5)
our genetically preferred state. It is an expression for an intrinsic
reference value.
The Proteom (the total set of proteins in a cell) can be influenced of the
cell environment (illness, state of nutrition or stage of development). The
physiological state of the organism is described by the Proteom (go to 4)
and it can change. The Proteom is an expression for the intrinsic signal in
the Reorganization process (HPCT).
We can mention many perceptual control systems

where the body's "internal chemistry" is represented by a
set of "intrinsic variables" that correspond to the chemistry
in the same way that the values of perceptual signals
correspond to states of the outer environmentin. Each
individual is born with a set of reference values for
these intrinsic variables, reference values that may
change over the course of a lifetime, but over which
the individual has no control.

Here I will mention a certain development of a certain control system and
the Reorganization behind development.
I think upon a Proteom that is influenced by the stage of development. I
think upon the baby reflex that is a descending movement of the arm, the
precursor for the gripping power. We notice this reflex if we try to stretch
the baby's upper arm. The baby responds by drawing back the arm toward the
upper part of the body.
* At this time the baby has got all the neurons she shall use for the rest
of her life and they have found their right place (C). But the neurons do
not function very well.
* Some myelin genes are dependent on continuous signals from the in growing
axons (H). -The gripping power control process begins with an unorganized
nervous system (2). More and more axons become myelinized.
* In the same way the entire hierarchy of control systems results from a
reorganizing process that begins with an unorganized nervous system. If I am
correct, the myelinization is an aspect of the control system that becomes
organized (3).
* When the baby sits in front of an object she wishes to grip, the
controlled quantity among other factors is a vision quantity. If the actual
axons in the control systems are not myelinized, the control system does not
function very well. The wave motion of perceptual signals and reference
signals are the intrinsic signals that trigger of the protein production in
glial cells. The axons become myelinized and the interior error becomes
zero. - A new part of the actual control system functions with negative
feedback and the baby is a better object gripper (4, 5, 6, 7).
* Later the baby will grip an object up in the air in front of her. Other
control systems will trigger of, but the myelinized axon mentioned above may
be involved. - the process of reorganization is independent of the kind of
behavior being reorganized (8).
* This gripping process is a simple example of learning. And the child will
learn to control other perceptions in the same way till she is fifteen years
old, and it will continue still (B).
* Some of these control processes will be cognitive in their nature (higher
levels). And I think myelinization is the Reorganization process that
account for much learning (9).
* We know many examples where Reorganization destroys earlier organization.
Multiple Sclerosis (MR) is one example (10).

Anybody who will say anything?

Bjorn

[From Bjorn Simonsen (2005.01.05,13:10 EST)]
paule

out of the blue...not always reading it all but most interested..and
somewhat qualified?

I remind you that the newest research points to the importance of glyal
cells into this whole thing....

plus the role of (a)synchronicity of impulses of neurons across the

brain...

It looks like you are in a hurry? If I am correct, and if you later get time
to spare I appreciate comments. If you asked if was qualified to write about
glial cells and myelination, I have no degrees in the subjects. But I know
what I think I know.

My last knowledge about glial cells are that they are like a kind of
scaffolding for the neurons. In a way the glial cells are for neurons, what
a railway tracks are for the railway. They "tell" the neurons where they
shall stretch. If there are no glial cells, there will not be myelin
surrounding the neurons.

I am not sure what you mean by synchronicity of impulses of neurons across
the brain .. Maybe you can tell me something about it.

Bjorn

out of the blue...not always reading it all but most interested..and
somewhat qualified?

I remind you that the newest research points to the importance of glyal
cells into this whole thing....

plus the role of (a)synchronicity of impulses of neruons across the brain...

paule

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bj�rn Simonsen" <bsimonsen@C2I.NET>
To: <CSGNET@listserv.uiuc.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 4:20 AM
Subject: Myelination and Reorganization

[From Bjorn Simonsen (2005,01,05;11:22 EST)]
Martin Taylor 2005.01.01.00.22
Thank you Martin for your "New Year's Manifesto II". It stimulated me to
re-read Bill's thoughts about learning in B:CP.
Based on B:CP I will refer some of Bill's basic statements (and yours).
Then I will refer to some of my neuroanatomical and neurophysiological
knowledge. At the end I will mention something we all know, but something
I
never have seen related to Reorganization.
I write this mail to revise my knowledge about Reorganization. If some of
you think I misunderstand Reorganization in any way, please comment on it.
Basic statements.
1. Reorganization is an operation on a system, not by a system (179).
2. .... The entire hierarchy of control systems results from a
reorganization process which begins with an unorganized nervous system,
...
(181)
3. The model I propose is based on the idea that there is a separate
inherited organization responsible for changes in organization of the
malleable part of the nervous system - the part that eventually becomes
the
hierarchy of perception and control. This reorganizing system may prove to
be no more than a convenient fiction; its functions and properties may
some
day prove to be aspects of the same systems that become organized (182).
4. The controlled quantity associated with the reorganization system
consists of a set of quantities affected by the physiological state of the
organism (184).
5. To present the fact that each intrinsic quantity has a genetically
preferred state, we will provide the reorganization system with intrinsic
reference signals. .......... This stored information may prove to be the
message carried in our genes (184).
6. The output function of the reorganization system thus produces an
effect
we can define without specifying the mode of action; reorganization (185).
7. ..........Nevertheless, changes in behavioral organization will affect
the intrinsic state of the organism, there is feedback. .... And this
feedback is negative. (186).
8. - the process of reorganization is independent of the kind of behavior
being reorganized. It depends only on the effects the bahavior has on
intrinsic state (187).
9. The real intent behind this model is to establish a concept of this
kind
of learning process, .................. . Overly general as this model is,
it nevertheless offers the hope of finding physically plausible principles
underlying all the major regularities in learning of this basic kind
(189).
10. Extinction, by the way, could be caused in two totally different ways.
It could result from reorganization that destroys a previous organization,
or ...... (192).

Neuro anatomical statements.
A. In the Brain there is one type of glial cells; Schwann cells. They wrap
around the axons in the peripheral nervous system and form a myelin
sheath.
The nervous system depends crucially on this sheath for insulation and an
increase in impulse speed.
B. In the first months of living, much myelin is formed in cortex.
Generation of myelin is continued till the child is fifteen years old, and
it still continues. I think the tightness of myelin can continue till the
age of sixty.
C. Nine months after conception, we have got all the neurons we shall use
for the rest of our life and they have found their right place. But the
neurons do not function very well
D. Already in the first month of living, the child has some reflexes. One
is
a descending movement with that arm. If I am right this is the forerunner
of
the more advanced gripping power. I shall not go in detail, but the
gripping
power is a really complex movement and it is possible when the necessary
control loops function effectively.
E. During the first years of a child's life it is formed a lot of myelin
in
cortex. Myelin is an electrically insulating fatty layer that surrounds
the
axons of many neurons, especially those in the peripheral nervous system.
It
is an outgrowth of glial cells: Schwann cells supply the myelin for
peripheral neurons while oligodendrocytes supply it to those of the
central
system. The main consequence of a myelin layer (or sheath) is an increase
in
the speed at which impulses propagate along the myelinated fiber. Along
unmyelinated fibers impulses move continuously as waves, but in myelinated
fibers they hop (or "propagate by saltation"). When a fiber is severed,
the
myelin sheath provides a track along which regrowth can occur.
Unmyelinated
fibers do not regenerate. Demyelination is a loss of myelin and is the
root
cause of symptoms experienced by patients with diseases such as multiple
sclerosis and transverse myelitis. Heavy metal poisoning may lead to
demyelination. When an axon's myelin degrades due to these diseases,
conduction can be impaired or lost.
F. A gene is a part of a chromosome, a part of DNA. It codes for a RNA
molecule. Most RNA molecules are mRNA (messenger RNA). They are produced
in
nucleus and transported too the cytoplasm where ribosomes decode the mRNA.
The robosome translates mRNA into a polypeptide chain (e.g., a protein).
It
can be thought of as a factory that builds a protein from a set of genetic
instructions.
G. The myelin specific genes, P0 and MBP, are constitutive and the level
of
myelinspecific mRNAs is modulated by axonal contact and myelin assembly.
(A.
C. LeBlanc, Dr. J. F. Poduslo )
H. Some myelin genes are dependent on continuous signals from the
ingrowing
axons..S. K. Gupta 1, J. Pringle 1, J. F. Poduslo 1 2, Dr. Catherine Mezei
1 )

What we all know, but something I never have seen related to Reorganizing.
I think man has about 35000 genes. They codes for a RNA (mRNA) and they
are
responsible for the production of certain proteins. All DNA from a human
is
the human Genome. The Genome is constant. It is an expression for (go to
5)
our genetically preferred state. It is an expression for an intrinsic
reference value.
The Proteom (the total set of proteins in a cell) can be influenced of the
cell environment (illness, state of nutrition or stage of development).
The
physiological state of the organism is described by the Proteom (go to 4)
and it can change. The Proteom is an expression for the intrinsic signal
in
the Reorganization process (HPCT).
We can mention many perceptual control systems

where the body's "internal chemistry" is represented by a
set of "intrinsic variables" that correspond to the chemistry
in the same way that the values of perceptual signals
correspond to states of the outer environmentin. Each
individual is born with a set of reference values for
these intrinsic variables, reference values that may
change over the course of a lifetime, but over which
the individual has no control.

Here I will mention a certain development of a certain control system and
the Reorganization behind development.
I think upon a Proteom that is influenced by the stage of development. I
think upon the baby reflex that is a descending movement of the arm, the
precursor for the gripping power. We notice this reflex if we try to
stretch
the baby's upper arm. The baby responds by drawing back the arm toward the
upper part of the body.
* At this time the baby has got all the neurons she shall use for the rest
of her life and they have found their right place (C). But the neurons do
not function very well.
* Some myelin genes are dependent on continuous signals from the in
growing
axons (H). -The gripping power control process begins with an unorganized
nervous system (2). More and more axons become myelinized.
* In the same way the entire hierarchy of control systems results from a
reorganizing process that begins with an unorganized nervous system. If I
am
correct, the myelinization is an aspect of the control system that becomes
organized (3).
* When the baby sits in front of an object she wishes to grip, the
controlled quantity among other factors is a vision quantity. If the
actual
axons in the control systems are not myelinized, the control system does
not
function very well. The wave motion of perceptual signals and reference
signals are the intrinsic signals that trigger of the protein production
in
glial cells. The axons become myelinized and the interior error becomes
zero. - A new part of the actual control system functions with negative
feedback and the baby is a better object gripper (4, 5, 6, 7).
* Later the baby will grip an object up in the air in front of her. Other
control systems will trigger of, but the myelinized axon mentioned above
may
be involved. - the process of reorganization is independent of the kind of
behavior being reorganized (8).
* This gripping process is a simple example of learning. And the child
will
learn to control other perceptions in the same way till she is fifteen
years
old, and it will continue still (B).
* Some of these control processes will be cognitive in their nature
(higher
levels). And I think myelinization is the Reorganization process that
account for much learning (9).
* We know many examples where Reorganization destroys earlier
organization.
Multiple Sclerosis (MR) is one example (10).

Anybody who will say anything?

Bjorn

Bjorn, Thanks for your detailed exploration of the complexities of the
developing nervous system.
Your description of the role of myelin may be out-of-date. A recent
article in Scientific American focussed on recent data that myelin
plays a much more active role in the overall electrical activity of the
brain. We may need to do a lot of Reorganisation in neuroscience.
Unfortunately, I've been unable to locate my copy and I'm hoping other
CSGnet members may better remember or have it at hand.
David W.

···

On 5 Jan, 2005, at 08.10 PST, David Wolsk wrote:

On Jan 5, 2005, at 1:20 AM, Bj�rn Simonsen wrote:

[From Bjorn Simonsen (2005,01,05;11:22 EST)]
Martin Taylor 2005.01.01.00.22
Thank you Martin for your "New Year's Manifesto II". It stimulated me
to
re-read Bill's thoughts about learning in B:CP.
Based on B:CP I will refer some of Bill's basic statements (and
yours).
Then I will refer to some of my neuroanatomical and neurophysiological
knowledge. At the end I will mention something we all know, but
something I
never have seen related to Reorganization.
I write this mail to revise my knowledge about Reorganization. If some
of
you think I misunderstand Reorganization in any way, please comment on
it.
Basic statements.

Anybody who will say anything?

Bjorn