PCT and Economics

[From Rick Marken (970324.1000)]

In a private post, Mike Acree told me that he thought the macro
economic theory developed by T. C. Powers in "Leakage" was inconsistent
with the theory of individual behavior developed by his son in B:CP. I
don't know why Mike thinks this is the case but I told him that I had
come to the opposite conclusion and that I would mention the reasons why
on the net. So here they are:

TCP views the _aggregate_ economy as a machine made of individuals who
cooperate to produce goods and services for themselves. The aggregate
producer and the aggregate consumer are (in the ideal case) the same
people. This view of the economy seems to take it for granted that the
individuals who make up the aggregate are autonomous control systems,
acting (in cooperation) to produce the input perceptions (of goods and
services) that they want and need.

This view of the individuals who make up the aggregate economy seems
quite different than the views of other economic theories, which seem
to view individual producers as entities who must be proded, by the
"push" of investment and/or the "pull" of incentives (wages and
profits), to work and produce. In TCPs view, individual producers
produce because they are also consumers. So the aggregate producer
produces in order to get what it needs (as the aggregate consumer). This
view implies that work (production) is what people do naturally in order
to get what they need; they don't have to be proded into working. If
people are not working it is because there is no work (that is part of
the aggregate producer) available to them.

In TCP's model of the economy, the aggregate producer pays _itself_ (the
aggregate consumer) exactly what it costs to produce the goods that are
made available to itself. AIdeally, the aggregate consumer should use
this income to purchase all the fruits of its production. But, in fact,
the aggregate consumer returns only about 93% of its income to itself
(the aggregate producer). This is what TCP calls "leakage". The result
of leakage is a reduction in growth rate.

I believe leakage operates like reduced gain in a control system. The
aggregate producer/consumer is the control system; it is trying to
produce input for itself (goods) at a rate that matches its "demand".
The aggregate producer/consumer maintains production by spending on
capital investment (which is ALWAYS 20% of its income) and wages. These
production costs are paid for by the income from consumtion.
But the aggregate consumer is paying itself only 93% of what it _could_
pay. This limits the production capacity of the aggregate producer; it
has 7% less money available for capital investment and wages than it
should have. This means that the aggregate producer cannot produce at
the rate it COULD (or would LIKE TO) produce; so the aggregate producer
is not producing what it _could_ produce to meet its needs as aggregate
consumer.

The central assumption of this model is that the amount paid to the
aggregate consumer (measured as GNP + undistributed corporate profits
(U) + personal savings (S)) should match the amount spent by the
aggregate consumer (GNP). Of course, these don't match to the extent
that U+S >0. "Leakage" refers to the fact that U+S has always been

0 and, indeed, has averaged 7% of total consumer income since 1900 or so.

Mike Acree has suggested that the leakage seen by TCP is an artifact;
consumer income (GNP+U+S) cannot be spent right away so it is no
surprise that GNP+U+S at time t doesn't equal GNP at time t+some time
later. Mike suggested that consumer income at time t should actually
match consumer spending (measured as GNP) at time t+1 year or so.

I computed the relationship between consumer income and spending this
way and found that, indeed, GNP+U+S at time t is almost always VERY
close to GNP at time t + 1 year. If this little lagged anaysis holds up
then the whole idea of "leakage" goes right out the window; it would
suggest that all consumer income is spent within one year after it is
recieved. This would require a MAJOR change in TCPs data analysis. But I
don't think it invaliates TCP basic systems approach to looking at the
behavior of the aggregate economy.

I suspect, however, that the results of this lagged analysis are,
themselves, an artifact; they result from the fact that the average rate
of growth of the economy brings the GNP at year t+1 up to the level that
happens to match last year' GNP+U+S. One hint that this might be the
case is the fact that for several of the years for which data is
available, the lagged analysis gives a measure of spending for year t+1
that is quite a bit _larger_ than the income on year t. This could be
seen as a result of "pent up demand" from previous savings but the
numbers don't add up; more is spent during these _over spending years_
than is accounted for by the "underspanding" of previous years.

Anyway, as Bill Powers said, TCP's work is just a start. But I think
it's a good one. And I think his ideas about the behavior of the
aggregate economy are far more consistent with the PCT model of
individual behavior than is any other economic theory that I am
aware of.

Best

Rick

[From Bill Powers (970325.1019 MST)]

Rick Marken (970324.1000)--

A nice review of the reasoning behind "Leakage."

Mike Acree has suggested that the leakage seen by TCP is an artifact;
consumer income (GNP+U+S) cannot be spent right away so it is no
surprise that GNP+U+S at time t doesn't equal GNP at time t+some time
later. Mike suggested that consumer income at time t should actually
match consumer spending (measured as GNP) at time t+1 year or so.

I computed the relationship between consumer income and spending this
way and found that, indeed, GNP+U+S at time t is almost always VERY
close to GNP at time t + 1 year. If this little lagged anaysis holds up
then the whole idea of "leakage" goes right out the window; it would
suggest that all consumer income is spent within one year after it is
recieved. This would require a MAJOR change in TCPs data analysis. But I
don't think it invaliates TCP basic systems approach to looking at the
behavior of the aggregate economy.

I raised the same question myself, and I'm not sure it was settled to my
satisfaction. However, as you say, this could be an artifact of a growing
economy. In fact, nearly all consumer income is spent not just within a year
of when it is received, but within a week. A fact that economic gurus making
upward of $200,000 per year fail to appreciate is that most people live from
paycheck to paycheck; in fact, huge numbers of people spend ALL that they
earn, and a little more to pay off the credit cards and time payments.

Also, don't forget this "composite" business, which is very easy to forget.
If someone is saving money, someone else is withdrawing savings. The NET
saving has to come from the difference. We're talking here about a
discrepancy of 7 percent in a 5 trillion dollar economy. That comes to 350
billion dollars of NET savings per year or $1400 per year per capita! If
that is the NET savings, what must be the total rate of saving and
withdrawal considered separately?

And lastly, suppose that this number really represents a steady net saving
of 7% of the GNP. This number, remember, is cumulative: that's 7% more in
savings EVERY YEAR. So where is all that money that's been accumulating over
the years? It's not being spent -- that's why we call it "savings." In
fact, if you just change the name "savings" to "leakage," you get exactly
the effects that TCP is talking about. That money's not available to buy the
product of the composite producer.

The main difference is whether you consider that leakage to be rho or alpha
-- reversible or irreversible. If the money is really being hoarded in
savings, then the leakage is reversible, but if it's actually disappearing
into other economies, or bad loans, or bad investments, or any of the other
ways in which buying power can be dissipated, it's alpha leakage and we're
not going to recover from it.

This has always been the weakest point of economic theories of all sorts.
How can you reconcile NOT SPENDING money so that it can be used for
investment to increase production, and SPENDING it to purchase the resulting
increase in production? Theorists have gone through all sorts of fanciful
contortions in trying to explain how this can happen. If you have a steadily
increasing amount of "savings," then there is a steadily increasing mount of
money not being spent on whatever production it's supposedly being used for.
Back to the drawing board.

Best,

Bill P.

[From Rick Marken (970326.1820)]

Bruce Gregory (970326.1740 EST)

Jesus Rick, you _are_ a glutton for punishment. Your views on
PCT don't provide punishment enough, so you are adding
economics!

I know you're joking but I thought I'd just "confess" that
I've really never felt punished by my views on PCT. It is disappointing
that more people don't appreciate and contribute
to PCT. But the disappointment is nothing compared to the joy I
get from being able to watch this amazing phenomenon (control) happening
around me all the time and knowing just what's going
on. Of course, there is also the naughty pleasure of being able
to watch famous (and infamous) behavioral scientists regularly
make fools of themselves before my very eyes;-)

As far as economics is concerned, I was never much interested in
it. But TCP's approach made immediate sense to me. And, best of
all, it was all based on real data. So the model can be tested.
And the famous (and infamous) economists are not hiding in ivory
towers; they are making fools of themselves right there on the
Evening News. (If TCP is correct, by then way, then Greenspan has
just taken the first small step towards an auto-inflationary
spiral; good news for those of us who are in debt;-))

Considering the difficulties he have counting the population
once every ten years, you have a lot more faith in government
data gathering than I do!

Actually, I didn't have any particular confidence in government
data myself. But after looking over the data in "Leakage" I was
impressed by its quality. If there is error in the data it is
clearly VERY small compared to the size of the measurements (you
can be off in your count of GNP by several billion dollars, for
example, and still have less than a 1% error of measurement).
Also, if you look at some of the graphs, the relationships are so
perfect (such as the _perfect_ linear relationship between GNP and
non-capital spending shown in Table 1) that I think it would have
been impossible for the government bean counters to have accidently
erred into results or even to have contrived them (which would have been
a particularly amazing feat considering the fact that variables like
non-capital spending are derived from several independent economic
measures).

Best

Rick

[From Rick Marken (970326.1430 PST)]

First, let me thank Bill Powers for doing all the detailed work that
is necessary to make what sense can be made of Hans' "theorizing".
There are people out here who are following along. Your most recent post
[Bill Powers (970326.1006 MST)] was a gem.

Me:

Mike Acree has suggested that the leakage seen by TCP is an
artifact; ...Mike suggested that consumer income at time t
should actually match consumer spending (measured as GNP) at
time t+1 year or so.

Bill Powers (970325.1019 MST) --

I raised the same question myself, and I'm not sure it was
settled to my satisfaction...In fact, nearly all consumer income
is spent not just within a year of when it is received, but
within a week.

I re-did the lagged analysis and I am now pretty convinced that leakage
is for real. If you measure the difference between income
(GNP+U+S) for year t and spending ((GNP) for year t + 1 you find
that from 1951 to 1972 income is always greater than spending;
there is leakage but it is less than what is found in TCP's
non-lagged analysis. However, from 1973 to 1988 spending (GNP in
year t+1) is always GREATER than income (GNP+U+S in year t). This would
mean that the composite consumer is spending MORE than it
has made. The only way this could be happening is if the composite
consumer is spending savings accumulated over previous years -- the
years when there was leakage.

To see if this accumulation of leakage could account for the apparent
overspending that occurs in this lagged analysis, I computed
the cumulative sum of the differences between income and spending over
the years from 1951 to 1988. This cumulative curve should never go
above zero because at no point can the composite consumer spend more
than what it has ade (income) combined with what it has saved. In fact,
this cumulative curve starts going above zero in around 1973
and _keeps increasing_. So something is wrong here. The lagged analysis
says that the composite consumer is returning more money to the
composite producer than it has ever received. It also means
that the composite producer has recieved far more than it has paid
out in wages and profit.

It could be that consumer spending is greater than consumer income
because of the increased use of credit cards in the mid 70s. But I
don't think this works because GNP (the measure of consumer spending)
does not include charged costs. If you buy a $20,000 car with $1000
down, then only the $1000 (and whatever payments you make) goes into GNP
for that year.

So even in a lagged analysis, spending by the composite consumer can
never _exceed_ the income give to it (now and/or at some point in
the past). The fact that cumulative spending exceeds cumulative
income (and by a HUGE amount by 1980 or so) in the lagged analysis
suggests that this analysis is incorrect. I think TCP's assumption that,
at the _aggregate level_, income at time t should equal
spending at time t, is correct. And, to the extent that income
is greater than spending, there is leakage.

Best

Rick

[From Bruce Gregory (970326.1740 EST)]

Rick Marken (970326.1430 PST)]

So even in a lagged analysis, spending by the composite consumer can
never _exceed_ the income give to it (now and/or at some point in
the past). The fact that cumulative spending exceeds cumulative
income (and by a HUGE amount by 1980 or so) in the lagged analysis
suggests that this analysis is incorrect. I think TCP's assumption that,
at the _aggregate level_, income at time t should equal
spending at time t, is correct. And, to the extent that income
is greater than spending, there is leakage.

Jesus Rick, you _are_ a glutton for punishment. Your views on
PCT don't provide punishment enough, so you are adding
economics! Considering the difficulties he have counting the
population once every ten years, you have a lot more faith in
government data gathering than I do!

Bruce Gregory

p.s. If you ever locate the leakage, please direct a little of it
my way :wink:

[From Bruce Gregory (970326.2200 EST)]

Rick Marken (970326.1820)

I know you're joking but I thought I'd just "confess" that
I've really never felt punished by my views on PCT. It is disappointing
that more people don't appreciate and contribute
to PCT. But the disappointment is nothing compared to the joy I
get from being able to watch this amazing phenomenon (control) happening
around me all the time and knowing just what's going
on.

I know _exactly_ what you mean. It is quite amazing to be one of only
a few dozen people who know how the world works! It is also amusing to
hear something "new" in the social sciences and to know at once if it
is true and why (or why it can't be true).

Actually, I didn't have any particular confidence in government
data myself. But after looking over the data in "Leakage" I was
impressed by its quality. If there is error in the data it is
clearly VERY small compared to the size of the measurements (you
can be off in your count of GNP by several billion dollars, for
example, and still have less than a 1% error of measurement).
Also, if you look at some of the graphs, the relationships are so
perfect (such as the _perfect_ linear relationship between GNP and
non-capital spending shown in Table 1) that I think it would have
been impossible for the government bean counters to have accidently
erred into results or even to have contrived them (which would have been
a particularly amazing feat considering the fact that variables like
non-capital spending are derived from several independent economic
measures).

Properly chastened,

Bruce Gregory