from [ Marc Abrams (2003.07.03.1951) ]
i.kurtzer (2003.07.03.1530)
I don't think that HPCT/PCT needs an overall such much as those interested
people, meaning you reading this, should be actively exploring their
interests with an understanding of control systems. That means _not_ just
sitting on your butt reading other people stuff but _doing_ something.
Funny you should bring this up. That is exactly how I came to this stuff. I
was doing some initial ground work for my HPCT stress experiments. I was
also interested in trying to 'look' at the upper levels of the hierarchy if
I could. I wanted to try and explore cognition. The psychology literature
was an absolute waste. Pure garbage. But I fortutiously, stepped into some
good luck. Bruce G. recommended _Cortex and Mind_ by Fuster to me while I
was reading Edelman. I was off to the races. I recently read Llinas and it
all came together. A plausable physiological model of mind that had all the
essentials of HPCT but was _biologically_ based & answered the memory and
emotion questions very nicely. I thought HPCT was biologically based as
well. But HPCT and B:CP just did not jive with the physiological facts I
learned. I found out rather crudely that Bill and Rick were Mind/Brain
people, dualists. That is certainly not any more of a crime then being a
behaviorist but I simply could not go along with that program with my new
found knowledge. Actually, I initially thought Bill was going to be
thrilled. His model was to a large degree being validated. Yes, control was
king. Regulation is the main evolutionary purpose of the brain. I was in for
a rude awakening. I ran into the Maginot line.
I still plan on doing those 'stress' experiments with the tracking task Bill
modified for me. But now I think I have a better idea of what is happening
phsyiologically. If Bill has any hope of interesting people in his theory he
needs to bring B:CP and it's physiological connection, Dualistic or not,
into the 21st century. I am simply asking him to be consistent with the
known physiological facts. If he believes in a dualistic approach, more
power to him. I wish Bill no ill will, regardless of what you, Fred and
others may think. I owe most of what I know to Bill and I would not have
been able to seperate the wheat from the chaff if it wasn't for both Bill,
Rick & the gang on CSGnet. Beleive it or not I am a friend of HPCT. Maybe
that's why it hurts to see this kind of defensiveness and lack of scientific
curiosity. I remeber as a kid, when someone said something you didn't like
you would challenge him with a bravado "_Prove it_". I find the same
mentality on this list at times. Bill, where the hell has your scientific
curiosity gone?
There are plenty of resources to help you with this; as nasty as some
spats
can be, anyone asking for specific help on a specific project would get it
in a heartbeat. I would suggest a specific project, i.e.
I believe my 'stress' project fits the bill.
not "consciousness" or "memory" writ large, that can be done--with
effort--
by you and which can lead to a larger applied or research project
involving
other people.
Before you or I do any experiments I would like to think that my underlying
assumptions are correct and accurate. if the real world operates
discontinuously and you model continuously that might create a problem. If
the real physiological world has both controlled and reflexive bbehaviors
don't you think you should know about it? If emotion, memory and awareness
play a key part in behavior, should you simply make believe it doesn't
exist. If in _addition_ to a hierarchy, ther is a network at play that
supercedes the hierarchy, shouldn't you know about it?
Please, please, don't take my word for it. Check this stuff out and come to
your own conclusions. To stick your head in the ground after someone has put
it on the table is not science.
For example, the "baseball" project does a nice job of looking at a
specific question and literature.
What literature? The psychology literature is an absolute waste of time for
PCT and HPCT. The APA in it's infinite wisdom has just come out with there
Neuropsychology journal this past January, Pubs like Neuron, Brain and
others have only been around since the 1990's, I believe. The neuroscience
journals have exploded in the last 8 years. There are at least 100 out
there, from Neurochemistry, to Neurobiology, to etc. ,etc, etc.
Do a Google search on neuroscience journals.
Yes there is a lot of crap out there. But _anyone_ with a PCT background can
seperate the wheat from the chaff,
Marc
···
Good luck.
I'm a bit tired right now, but will soon write back about some of the work
I've been doing.
Isaac