[From Bruce Gregory (980429.1033 EDT)]
Bill Powers (980429.0300 MDT)
Actually, I thought I was answering your question about what to do about
"such people." Do you want to fix your problem by making Rick behave
differently?
As attractive as that idea is, I have given up all hope. My current strategy
is to attempt not to provoke him by disturbing the perceptions that be
guards with such high gain.
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[From Bruce Gregory (980429.1048 EDT)]
Bill Powers (980428.1356 MDT)
Set it to the lowest possible temperature. If that temperature is lower
than the lowest temperature the room air will ever attain, the
thermostat is
effectively turned off: the furnace will never turn on.
Oops. I forgot that error signals have no effect if they have the "wrong"
sign. Thanks for reminding me.
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[From Bruce Gregory (980429.1053 EDT)]
Fred Nickols (980428.1700 EDT)
1) I'm not sure what Bruce G is driving at. Is it that something
like a "description" can't be treated as a controlled variable?
If so, why not? We control for things like pronunciation and
enunciation (in relation to a reference signal that might be
stated as "speaking properly"), so why not a description, and
whether it is a generally accepted one or one that is being
contended?
Yes, but pronunciation and enunciation are not descriptions of something,
but behaviors. You have to be "flexible" if you want to say that a
description is a behavior. Problem is that soon begin to sound like a
Behaviorist when you do this.
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[From Bruce Nevin (980429.1855)]
Bruce Gregory (980429.1053 EDT) --
Fred Nickols (980428.1700 EDT)
1) I'm not sure what Bruce G is driving at. Is it that something
like a "description" can't be treated as a controlled variable?
If so, why not?
[...]
You have to be "flexible" if you want to say that a
description is a behavior. Problem is that soon begin to sound like a
Behaviorist when you do this.
A little ambiguity here.
If you hold that behavior is the control of perception, and claim that "a description" is a controlled perception, then you also claim that "description" (the means of control) is behavior, and you do so without being a behaviorist.
It is quite ordinary for "description" to vary according to the audience, in response to questions and objections, in rebuttal of misconstruals or clarification of misunderstandings, etc., all as variable means of maintaining the perception that something has been adequately described, i.e. the description understood, agreed upon, and able to be acted upon appropriately. But this last is rather more complex than the bare words "a description" suggest, an immediate problem with them being that it sounds like one variant will do, confusing end and means.
So I think it is confusing and perhaps confused to speak of "a description" as a controlled perception. The things being confounded here include: some perception or perceptions being described, the means of describing it (two senses, "descriptions" and the means for making them), communication or reaching agreement with another, and a perception of having communicated or come to agreement successfully.
Bruce Nevin
[From Bruce Gregory (980430.0438 EDT)]
Bruce Nevin (980429.1855)]
So I think it is confusing and perhaps confused to speak of "a
description" as a controlled perception. The things being
confounded here include: some perception or perceptions being
described, the means of describing it (two senses, "descriptions"
and the means for making them), communication or reaching
agreement with another, and a perception of having communicated
or come to agreement successfully.
I agree.
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