perceptions and reality

[From Bill Powers (940908.1420 MDT)]

Bruce Buchanan (940907.2010) --

In view of the fact that what we perceive is a function of the world as
well as of the perceptual apparatus, perhaps behavior may
alternatively and reasonably be described as Control of _What We
Perceive_.

_What We Perceive_ is undeniably a function of the perceiver, but it is
not _only_ that. It is also a function of what is perceived, and it
may both clarify understanding and and facilitate wider acceptance of
PCT to acknowledge that fact.

This is actually the view I am trying to get across, but without begging
the question of what is perceived. It's very easy to slip in an
unwarranted assumption here. We can say "Yes, my perception of an apple
is in part due to the construction of my perceptual systems, but it's
also due in part to the apple." Of course to speak of "the apple" apart
perceiving it, to know of the apple. And that is what I say we do not
have.

The claim I want to make about reality is much weaker than saying that
my perception of the apple is in part due to the apple. I want to claim
only that it is due in part to some regularity in the world. There is
evidence for that, because we can correlate taste, vision, audition, and
touch sensations all of which seem to have to do with one thing that we
call an apple. Moreover, in order to alter the experience of the apple
in any desired way, we must perform certain acts on the world outside.
We can't pick actions at random, because only some actions will have the
desired effects. We must discover what they are empirically. There is
strong evidence that there are regularities in the outside world
involved in our perception and control of apples. But this evidence
concerns only the _existence_ of the regularities; it does not give us a
unique description of them. It does not say that in the outside world,
there is an entity corresponding to the perception we call "apple." Of
course this argument does not say there is NOT such an entity. But the
basic problem here is how we could ever establish that there is one.

I'm perfectly willing to play Let's Pretend. I do it all the time in
modeling. Let's pretend that corresponding to the perception of the
position of a target, there is not only something called a target really
out there, but something called "position." If there is a perception of
the distance between a fingertip and the target, let's pretend that
there is not only a real fingertip, but something corresponding to
"distance." With this set of postulates accepted, I can proceed to merge
a physical model of the fingertip and target, where laws of geometry,
optics, and inertia are involved, with a functional model of a nervous
system in which there are signals representing fingertip, target,
positions, and distance. The two models fit together nicely; they
should, because they were both constructed to be self-consistent and
consistent with human observations of the world. I can easily pretend
that this is a true picture of how the organism relates to its
environment. But that doesn't solve the real problem.

The nature of the problem is perhaps best investigated by simulations.
We can set up a world with known objective properties, and a control
system that perceives some function of the variables in that world, and
show quite easily that there is no need for the controlled perception to
correspond to any entity in the external world. We can set up a world,
for example, in which there are two variables, x and y. We can set up a
control system to perceive ax - by, and to maintain the resulting
perception at any arbitrary reference level by converting the error
signal into a positive effect on x and a negative effect on y. This can

be done for any arbitrary choice of coefficients a and b other than
zero.

The control system will act exactly as if there were a weighted
difference between x and y in the world, which could be disturbed and
also kept under control against disturbances. Yet in the environment,
there would be nothing but x and y, which need have no relationship to
each other. The variable x could be the temperature of the air, and the
variable y the brightness of a picture on a television set. The value of
ax - by could be brought to any desired value and maintained there
despite disturbances acting on the air temperature and/or the brightness
of the picture, given only that we have actions which can affect
brightess and temperature (or either one alone) in the right direction.

I have run such models repeatedly, and Rick Marken has developed a
similar model with three levels of control and six environmental
variables. The environmental variables in such models don't correspond
to any physical variables; they're just arbitrary variables with no
meanings assigned.

So by looking at the perceptual signals in the control systems, what
could we deduce about the external world? Those signals appear to vary
in systematic ways, which the simulated system can control by systematic
action on its world. Yet the signals standing for the individual
variables x and y (or x1 through x6) could have any physical meaning
whatsoever; the physical meaning is irrelevant. The apparent variable p,
where p = ax - by, seems to represent an entity in the world outside.
But it was constructed in an arbitrary manner, and exists only because
there is a perceptual input function which receives a signal standing
for x and multiplies it by a, and receives a signal y and multiplies it
by b, and adds the two products together algebraically to determine the
momentary value of the perceptual signal.

It seems to me that this sort of demonstration very clearly shows the
relationship that exists between perception and the world. Yes,
perceptions depend on the world; no, they do not necessarily have
correlates in the world. Until we fully accept this apparent fact, there
is no way we can make a systematic attack on the epistemology of
perception. If we keep trying to make perception into something that
magically corresponds to real things in the world, we will never find
out how it is that perceptions come to be the way they are. I think we
can come up with a convincing picture, but we can't do it if we become
alarmed at what the implications of the first steps seem to be, and shy
away from simple reasoning because we're afraid of where it might lead.

Once we accept the simple picture that we can get from straightforward
reasoning, we can begin to see how progress could be made toward a non-
solipsistic epistemology. Donald T. Campbell pointed out one direction
we could take, in his concept of "triangulation."

Suppose we have four variables, x,y,s, and t. As it happens, let us say,
there is a law in the world that says ax - by = cs + dt. Let us suppose,
furthermore, that we have two control systems, one perceiving p1 = ax -
by and the other perceiving p2 = cs + dt. There are now two perceptual
signals that covary if the values of the weightings a,b,c, and d are
exactly right; p1 will equal p2 at all times. If the values are
multiples of the right values, p1 will be a multiple of p2 but strictly
proportional to it. So the behaviors of p1 and p2 are no longer
arbitrary; there is a relationship between them which can be found if
the weightings of the first level of perception are correct, or related
to the correct values in a simple way. To control s and t in a certain
way is to control a related function of x and y. That relationship is
set by the property of the world which says ax - by = cs + dt. A
perception made of p1 and p2 would therefore reflect a regularity in the
world, although it would not be a direct representation of the nature of
that regularity. Why such a correlation between perceptions would be
sought is a matter for further thought. But the fact is that we have
here one circumstance in which a law in the environment would lead to a
discoverable relationship between otherwise arbitrary perceptions.

The other route is the one on which Martin Taylor has been working (I've
been considering it, too, for some years). It might be that the
difference ax - by is closely related to some physiological effect of
the world on the organism containing the control system. The variable x
might correlate with a positive effect on some critical variable, while
y correlates with a negative effect on the same variable, in the
proportions a:b. Given a reorganizing system that monitors the critical
variable and alters the organization of the control systems until that
variable is maintained at some particular level, we could understand why
a control system might come into being that controls ax - by. The
construction of the perceptual signal from the inputs x and y is still
completely arbitrary, but now another constraint has been added: the
control system must ultimately come to perceive and control a function
of x and y such that the physiological effects of x and y on the
critical variable keep that variable near its genetically-specified
reference level.

Now we have supplied a missing ingredient in the epistemology with which
we began: a way for the organism to know something objective about the
correlates of perceptual signals. This knowledge is highly indirect, but
it involves a route by which information about the environment can get
into the organism in a way other than through the senses. This
information comes in through direct physical effects of the environment
on the body of the organism.

At the very least, the requirement that these direct physical effects
leave critical variables near their reference states puts a constraint
on what variables the organism will sense and control with its
behavioral systems.

So we now have two approaches to the problem, which beconme apparent
only when we accept the arbitrariness of perception. We can look for
principles of reorganization based on relationships among arbitrary
perceptions, and we can look for principles based on direct
physiological effects of variables associated with perception. Both of
these approaches entail considering properties of the outside world,
independently of how they are perceived. Both approaches give the actual
properties of the real world an influence on how the hierarchy of
perception and control will develop.

This is just a bare start toward a real solution, toward answering the
question of whether perceptions correspond to meaningful entities in the
outside world. It has the great advantage over a leap of faith that it
can accomodate cases where perceptions clearly do not have any external
counterparts, or where they even misrepresent the external situation (as
in illusions). Those mistakes of perception are unimportant if it can be
shown that some perceptions, for logical and demonstrable reasons,
necessarily correspond to meaningful external entities. The way they
come to do so will, I believe, be undertood ultimately as the outcome of
a continuing process of reorganization that converges toward
veridicality, at least in critical dimensions.

It may be that even when this development is finished (and it is a long
way from finished), we will still find a basic ambiguity between
perception and reality. But we will have moved a step closer to knowing
how experience relates to That Which Is.

I find this approach to epistemology a lot more interesting than playing
Let's Pretend.

ยทยทยท

from my perception of it is to claim to have another way, beside
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Best,

Bill P.

[From Bruce Buchanan (940909.20:40 EDT)]

I feel very grateful to Bill for setting out his views on perceptions and
reality so clearly. To my mind there is no topic of greater importance in
all its implications for theory and human activity. However the crux of my
response is to disagree with Bill.

Bill Powers (940908.1420 MDT) writes:

I'm perfectly willing to play Let's Pretend. I do it all the time in
modeling. Let's pretend that corresponding to the perception of the
position of a target, there is not only something called a target really
out there, but something called "position."

I think there is confusion about which side the game of Let's Pretend is
being played on, in large part because of differing views as to the nature
of our concepts on the one hand and the external world on the other. All
abstract thought consists, of course, of models, and as I understand it
there are hierarchies of these constituting control systems. They include
all the models or theories of the physical sciences which we accept for now
as proven, and any other theories whatseover. These abstractions are
absolutely essential conceptual tools for man and part of our human nature,
but it is a categorical error (by which I mean a fundamental mistaking and
misclassifying of conceptual categories) to mistake them for realities. The
realities are what are out there, to be controlled. If there is a Let's
Pretend it applies to the metaphor and theory side of things (including
PCT), not to the real world experiences which the theory seeks to account
and to control.

Now let me make a few specific comments on Bill's post before I return to
some points of general epistemological perspective.

Bill writes:

. . .to speak of "the apple" apart
from my perception of it is to claim to have another way, beside
perceiving it, to know of the apple. And that is what I say we do not
have.

I do not think this follows. What we do not have is any alternative mode of
experiencing an apple. But we do have the primary experience itself, as the
given, which is all that we can talk about. While words can mean whatever
you choose them to mean, for me the notion of an apple is not apart from my
perception of it, and involves no privileged access to other information.
It simply accepts that the reference for the word "apple" lies in the
direction of a phenomenon which I learned as a child that everyone spoke of
as an apple. I developed a consensually validated public language, which
also described my own experiences, and in terms of which I constructed an
abstract system of higher level perceptions and thoughts for dealing with
apples. But all these were constructed on the base of the primary direct
experiences.

I learned later in medical school about light, sound, sensation, Fechner's
psychophysics and so on. But all these descriptive models were and are of a
different category than the phenomena that we all first experienced as the
real or external world even before we learned to talk. If we do not have
confidence in the reality of this primary experience in our lives we have
nothing to talk about, nothing on which to build our understanding. This is
the real world, as we learned to trust it in infancy and still must deal
with it. To substitute for this the current concepts of our culture,
including scientific theories, is indeed playing Let's Pretend, which is
O.K. as long as we know that is what we are doing, i.e. making metaphors
and building models.

There is
strong evidence that there are regularities in the outside world
involved in our perception and control of apples. But this evidence
concerns only the _existence_ of the regularities; it does not give us a
unique description of them. It does not say that in the outside world,
there is an entity corresponding to the perception we call "apple."

I would say that this statement has it backwards, i.e. that _the evidence
of our experience_, as we describe this in our common language, is that
there are objects we call apples. In describing these objects of experience
we can identify characteristics and regularities. But these
characteristics, while functions of our perception, are identified by us as
characteristics _of the objects_. These characteristics are _the means by
which and through which we know_ the apple. We do not perceive our own
sensations and perceptions, but rather _perceive the external world_
_through_ our perceptions. The external world does not exist in some other
problematic or more ultimate sense. The world exists for us only in the
terms on which we experience it, and it is on these terms that we describe,
conceptualize and try to control the world.

. . .this argument does not say there is NOT such an entity. But the
basic problem here is how we could ever establish that there is one.

In my view this is not a real problem at all, but a pseudoproblem, which it
is the business of philosophy to unmask! The notion of the world which
holds that the reality can only be that we are able to map with our
concepts is simply false. It stems from a failure of conceptual thoughts
and thinkers to deal with the realities of immediate and direct experience,
and IMO is related to desires for power and control, but misunderstands
mechanisms and and the limitations of thought with respect to the means
involved.

To repeat, the duality is not between the material world and thought (as
held by Descartes, Locke and Hume) but between (1) the phenomena of
existence as experienced by each one of us and (2) the regulative
abstractions/control systems by which we seek to understand and articulate
our models of the world.

The nature of the problem is perhaps best investigated by simulations.
We can set up a world with known objective properties, and a control
system that perceives some function of the variables in that world, and
show quite easily that there is no need for the controlled perception to
correspond to any entity in the external world. . . .

The environmental variables in such models don't correspond
to any physical variables; they're just arbitrary variables with no
meanings assigned.
So by looking at the perceptual signals in the control systems, what
could we deduce about the external world?

O.K. you can set up a simulation, which _you define_ as _a world with
known objective properties_. But it seems to me that a simulation is just
that - i.e. an external embodiment of a theoretical construct. This may
show something about the implications of the theories in question but I am
at a loss to understand how it ever could demonstrates general principles
about the real world - except as part of that isolated system. (This
reminds me of what has been described so clearly as a major limitation of
the S-R models.)

Again, the real problem lies in mistaking concepts of the world, or
theories of reality, for the real world of direct experience of tangible
phenomena.

(Direct experience occurs prior to being verbalized, so these explanatory
words of mine must be understood and interpreted by a reader who is willing
to reflect a bit on the actual feel and awareness of his/her own
awarenesses of things and people about him, etc., fleeting and momentary as
this experience of reality always is. In addition to many existentialist
writers, Whitehead also well described this aspect of perception in Process
and Reality.)

If we keep trying to make perception into something that
magically corresponds to real things in the world, we will never find
out how it is that perceptions come to be the way they are.

I agree. Of course, perceptions are not _things_ at all (except as we
abstract and fix them for analytic understanding), but live and changing
processes reflective of dynamic experience.

If we keep tryig to make perceptions into things that they are not, not
only will we fail to understand, but even worse, we will be ever more
tragically misguided. It is an epistemological and methodological error of
world-historical importance and disastrous consequences to have imagined
that our human perceptions and concepts might be adequate in themselves
(whether considered as religions or as other idealogies - communism,
captitalism, etc.) without being considered as control systems requiring
ongoing corrective feedback at all levels at all times. It is the urge to
power run riot and the tragedy of hubris.)

. . . a way for the organism to know something objective about the
correlates of perceptual signals. This knowledge is highly indirect, but
it involves a route by which information about the environment can get
into the organism in a way other than through the senses. This
information comes in through direct physical effects of the environment
on the body of the organism.

So we now have two approaches to the problem, which become apparent
only when we accept the arbitrariness of perception. We can look for
principles of reorganization based on relationships among arbitrary
perceptions, and we can look for principles based on direct
physiological effects of variables associated with perception. Both of
these approaches entail considering properties of the outside world,
independently of how they are perceived. Both approaches give the actual
properties of the real world an influence on how the hierarchy of
perception and control will develop.

As I see them, these entirely valid observations fall within the category
of (further) physical mechanisms and theories e.g. both of specific sensory
mechanisms and less specifiable physiological effects, by which we try to
explain what we actually experience. We also know that the electrical and
chemicaI and hormonal patterns within the brain which in some measure
reflect such influences have effects which range from specific to regional
and ramify variously, etc. But consideration of these types of influences
and relationships do not change their role within the larger framework set
by a philosophy of science and epistemology which describes, separates and
relates the quite different categories of (1) direct experience and (2)
abstract theory.

It may be that even when this development is finished . . .
. . . we will still find a basic ambiguity between
perception and reality. But we will have moved a step closer to knowing
how experience relates to That Which Is.

To repeat: there is no such ambiguity, and it is the belief in the reality
of abstractions that is the Let's Pretend. While I am not a mystic, I think
I can understand why Zen masters are said to hit their students over the
head in the effort to have them open their eyes and realize that the World
About Them is All There Is!

I might add that the views which I am expressing are not at all original
with me although I am, of course, expressing them according to my own
understanding at the moment!

As I understand the history of philosophy, ancient times saw a dichotomy
between empirical knowledge (cf. Aristotle) and the world of Ideas (cf.
Plato) revived as similar distinctions in the early modern times between
the British emiricists (esp. Locke and Hume - who incurred the reasoned
scorn of many less mainstream thinkers, e.g. William Blake) and the
continental rationalists (Descartes, Leibniz,et al). Kant tried to bridge
the gaps but failed.
Early modern thinking has involved the polarities of existential
philosophers (esp. Neitzsche, Kierkegaard) on the side of actual
experience, and analytic and linguistic philosophy (Vienna School,
Wittgenstein) in the conceptual/rationalist camp.

One of my heros, Karl Popper, certainly understood analytic philosophy but
pointed out that all valid theories can only be grounded in the other real
worlds i.e. the external world and the world of immediate subjective human
experience. Popper has been called the greatest living philosopher and
also (by Peter Medawar, Nobel winner in Medicine) "incomparably the
greatest philosopher of science that has ever been". In trying to
understand Popper I have learned a few things about society and politics
also (cf. his The Open Society and Its Enemies). Although his terminology
is of course his own, his views seem to me to be entirely consistent with
cybernetics and PCT .

Needless to say I would welcome discussion of any points but I feel the
basic question relates to a quite fundamental orientation that, while it
precedes and goes beyond language, provides the medium and referents which
give language meaning.

Cheers!

Bruce B.

[Martin Taylor 940913 16:00]

Bruce Buchanan (940909.20:40, 940910.13:45 EDT, 940911.01:15 EDT)

Bruce, you make many references to a special status for "what we
experience directly" as in:

What we can trust is the reality of direct experiences - and be that I mean
the kind of reality which a very small child experiences before he knows
anything about science, etc.

(Bruce in response to Bill Powers)

There is
strong evidence that there are regularities in the outside world

involved in our perception and control of apples. But this evidence

concerns only the _existence_ of the regularities; it does not give us a
unique description of them. It does not say that in the outside world,
there is an entity corresponding to the perception we call "apple."

I would say that this statement has it backwards, i.e. that _the evidence
of our experience_, as we describe this in our common language, is that
there are objects we call apples. In describing these objects of experience
we can identify characteristics and regularities.

The notion of the world which
holds that the reality can only be that we are able to map with our
concepts is simply false. It stems from a failure of conceptual thoughts
and thinkers to deal with the realities of immediate and direct experience,

To repeat, the duality is not between the material world and thought (as
held by Descartes, Locke and Hume) but between (1) the phenomena of
existence as experienced by each one of us and (2) the regulative
abstractions/control systems by which we seek to understand and articulate
our models of the world.

And so on.

I think that your acceptance of, indeed insistence on, this dichotomy will
impede your understanding of PCT. (I also think it impedes your understanding
of the world, but that's quite another matter).

Describing involves language, which involves categories and labels. When
you talk about "describing" regularities, you miss the point about
perception _depending_ on regularities. Description of the perception
by scientific analysis has nothing to do with the perception itself
(though a scientist may well perceive the object of study differently
because of the science).

I can see no valid distinction between the signals that emerge directly
from our sense organs and any other signal that is based on those signals
and their history. "Direct experience" is only the transformation of
some presumed real-world event(s) by way of the sensors evolution has
provided us. Would the "direct experience" of a bee and of a person seeing
a flower be commensurate, let alone the same? The bee sees in the ultraviolet,
but the real-world flower is so much more (less, different) than its impact
on our different sensors. We know nothing of the real world, whether by
"direct experience" or by "rational cogitation." What we have, in both
cases, is a set of perceptions influenced by what happens in the real world.
And we don't and can't know what that influence is or how it works.

What we do "know," in the sense of being able to work with it, is what the
bee knows, and the aphid, and the aesthete: when we act in certain ways,
the world we perceive changes. The "real" world may change in all sorts of
other ways we don't perceive. But there are regularities in the world
that allow us to control what we perceive. There are other regularities,
too, we presume. We "perceive" some by imagining them, by thought, logic
if you will, and determining whether certain changes in "direct experience"
correspond with others that we think should happen. When we bring these
two pieces of uranium together (which we can perceive outselves as doing,
"directly"), will that meter needle move to the number 5 (as we have logically
imagined that we will directly experience it to do), and will we hear a
burst of clicks from this loudspeaker (as we have also imagined we will
experience directly)?

There's no "apple out there" distinct from an entity that includes half the
space occupied by the apple and a few tendrils of air in the neighbourhood,
except that our perception makes it so. The potential exists in the
real world for us to perceive an apple, if we have a perceptual system that
perceives apples. If the potential were not there, we wouldn't perceive
the apple, no matter how well we were constructed to perceive apples. So
there's something real about "the apple." But there's no specialness about
it except that someone sees it as a specific object.

If you accept PCT, it follows that when our actions don't serve to control
our perceptions, reorganization will change one or the other, until control
is established. That means that we won't (for long) perceive relationships
that are neither controllable nor contribute to controllable perceptions.
So the very nature of a perception has embedded in it what the perception
serves for. Gibson used the word "affordance," but PCT has a much deeper
hook into the same idea. The perception is there because it might be
useful; it might be controlled so that some higher-level perception is
controlled. And the real world determines which perceptions could be
constructed and controlled. In principle, it is totally arbitrary what
might be perceived; but if a perception is to be a controllable one, there
has to be some regularity in the world that lets it be so.

There's nothing particularly special about the distinction

between (1) the phenomena of
existence as experienced by each one of us and (2) the regulative
abstractions/control systems by which we seek to understand and articulate
our models of the world.

except that (1) occurs in the analogue part of the hierarchy, and (2) above
(beyond?) the category level. A lot of (1) has been stable over evolutionary
time, and may well not be learned by the individual. That part may seem
more like "direct experience" than are those perceptions learned by the
individual, and it may be more valid in respect of strong regularities in
the "real" world. But we can't know that. All we can do is to control
the perceptions we have or that we make for ourselves.

If we can control, we have good reason to think that we are dealing with
something "real," but we don't have to think whether this is so to do it,
and the "something" may very well not correspond to any "real" regularity
at all. It might just be a big coincidence that things changed in the right
way when we acted. Or there might be a big stage director out there
manipulating the props to deceive us into thinking we have control. We
just have to act as if we are dealing with something real, and go on hoping.
But the more consistently what we perceive is affected by what we do, the
better our chances of being right. Magic works sometimes, by coincidence,
but the control effected by magic isn't consistent enough to let us
perceive it as using a regularity of the world. That's why science asks
for repeatability, or at least for converging operations (what seems now
to be called "triangulation"). Science looks for regularities in the real
world, in the same way that individuals do and that evolution has long done.

Do, be, do, be, dooo...

Martin