Perceptual functions for surface perception? (was Re: On the non-control of angles)

[Martin Taylor 2013.07.30.11.42]

[From Matti Kolu (2013.07.30.1700 CET)]

... This brings us back to the beginning:
I noted that there is an unfortunate lack of material dealing with the
issue of constructing perceptual functions in general.

Matti

There are two separable issues: (1) How does reorganization create new and revise old perceptual functions? and (2) What results of reorganization of perceptual functions by evolution or within the individual are common across all or most members of a species or larger group (such as humans, primates, mammals).

If for some perception answers to (2) are known (or not known), then a parallel question may be asked, which is how an inorganic robot does or might solve the same perceptual problem.

The generic answer to question (1) is probably much like the way reorganization is usually applied to the interconnection of the hierarchy. In B:CP Chapter 3, several different analogue computational configurations are described. Randomly connecting neurons whose inputs ultimately derive from sensors will result in a variety of computations of arbitrary complexity. If actions consistently influence one of these computational results, it could become a controlled perception, especially if controlling it has some effect on an intrinsic variable. Low level perceptual functions have probably been reorganized over evolutionary time and many of them would be common across species. High-level perceptions probably get reorganized within an individual, and are likely to be somewhat idiosyncratic and to be influenced by an organism's social environment.

At least that's the approach I would take if I wanted to enquire more seriously into the problem.

Martin

[From Matti Kolu (2013.07.31.0100 CET)]

Martin Taylor 2013.07.30.11.42--

Randomly connecting neurons whose inputs ultimately derive
from sensors will result in a variety of computations of arbitrary
complexity. If actions consistently influence one of these computational
results, it could become a controlled perception, especially if controlling
it has some effect on an intrinsic variable.

I recently watched a recording of a lecture given by John Koza titled
"Automated Design Using Darwinian Evolution and Genetic Programming":

His approach is probably familiar to some readers. Koza and his
colleagues have been using "Genetic Programming" to evolve, among
other things, analog circuits:

"WHATEVER THE FIELD of endeavor, genetic programming begins with a
primordial ooze of randomly generated trial �organisms� and a
high-level description of what function the organisms are meant to
accomplish the criteria for scoring their fitness. As an example,
consider a case in which the organisms are elementary mathematical
functions and we are endeavoring to find a function whose graph
matches a given curve. The organisms in this case are composed of
numerical constants and primitive operations such as addition,
subtraction, multiplication and division. The fitness of a function is
determined by how closely its graph follows the target curve."
[...]
"TO EVOLVE a low-pass filter, which passes low frequencies and blocks
high frequencies, the genetic program would begin with random circuits
(1). Some would luckily have an inductor positioned to impede high
frequencies or a capacitor positioned to drain off high frequencies.
These circuits would combine by crossover ( 2 ) to produce rudimentary
low-pass filter circuits ( 3 ). Further crossovers between these
circuits ( 4 ) would produce a ladder low- pass filter ( 5 ).
Mutations ( 6 ) would eliminate superfluous resistors and would
fine-tune the values of the components"
[...]
"THE TWO CIRCUITS shown below are both cubic signal generators. The
upper circuit is a patented circuit designed by a human; the green and
purple parts of the lower circuit were evolved by genetic programming
(the other parts are standard input and output stages). The evolved
circuit performs with better accuracy than the human- designed one,
but how it functions is not understood. The evolved circuit is clearly
more complicated but also contains redundant parts, such as the purple
transistor, that contribute nothing to its functioning."
-- "Evolving Inventions". Koza, Keane, Streeter. Scientific American, 2003:
http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~rad/courses/cs266/papers/koza-sciam03.pdf

Hm.

"The evolved circuit performs with better accuracy than the
human-designed one, but how it functions is not understood."

Perhaps asking questions about how to construct perceptual functions
is the wrong approach. We already know -- loosely -- how perceptual
functions are constructed. They are the result of random variations.
So isn't the construction of perceptual functions just a matter of
exploiting randomness in the right way?

"...but how it functions is not understood."

Do we really have to think about *how* a N-level system functions?
What happens if we setup the conditions for a control system that is
in chronic error until it starts to perceive some kind of N-level
variable?

What defines a "level" in HPCT?

Can you have a system that overall seems to be "moving towards" a new
perceptual level?

Matti

[Martin Taylor 2013.07.30.20.43]

[From Matti Kolu (2013.07.31.0100 CET)]

Martin Taylor 2013.07.30.11.42--

Randomly connecting neurons whose inputs ultimately derive
from sensors will result in a variety of computations of arbitrary
complexity. If actions consistently influence one of these computational
results, it could become a controlled perception, especially if controlling
it has some effect on an intrinsic variable.

I recently watched a recording of a lecture given by John Koza titled
"Automated Design Using Darwinian Evolution and Genetic Programming":
http://youtu.be/xIoytwJWJP8

His approach is probably familiar to some readers. Koza and his
colleagues have been using "Genetic Programming" to evolve, among
other things, analog circuits:

Yes, it's a long established technique, and one I used 20 years ago and still do when trying to optimize control simulations. The problem with trying to apply it to reorganization is that there has to be an externally applied criterion to determine which members of the candidate population survive to contribute to the next generation and which die off without progeny. In real evolution, the environment supplies that criterion and population members who have more descendants are more likely to have their genes survive, even if their phenotypes don't.

"WHATEVER THE FIELD of endeavor, genetic programming begins with a
primordial ooze of randomly generated trial �organisms� and a
high-level description of what function the organisms are meant to
accomplish the criteria for scoring their fitness.

Exactly my point. When we are talking about reorganization, there is no such high-level description, so this wouldn't work.

But there is a criterion, which is the maintenance of intrinsic variables within ranges compatible with life that is continued long enough to allow the propagation of genes. Generally speaking, the more perceptions can be controlled, the more likely it is that some of them, or some functions of some of them, affect the values of intrinsic variables. Not all perceptual control will, but if the organism "discovers" through random reconnection a perception that its actions can influence and therefore that it can control, it is more likely than not that there will be some occasions on which controlling that variable proves useful. So, I would argue, perceptual functions that produce controllable perceptions are more likely to survive future reorganization than are perceptual functions that produce signals that the organism has not found a way to control and that do not contribute to perceptions the organism has learned to control.

...
Perhaps asking questions about how to construct perceptual functions
is the wrong approach. We already know -- loosely -- how perceptual
functions are constructed. They are the result of random variations.
So isn't the construction of perceptual functions just a matter of
exploiting randomness in the right way?

I think so, if "exploiting" is interpreted appropriately.

"...but how it functions is not understood."

Do we really have to think about *how* a N-level system functions?

We may not "have to", but Bill did, and it is very much worthwhile to understand what he discovered and demonstrated, even if you then choose to follow a different path. What Bill showed (among much else) is that it is possible to create a multi-level multi-input multi-output control hierarchy with randomly weighted interconnections, and by random reorganization based on the ability to control, develop a system that effectively can bring the high-level perceptions under control using multiple input and outputs for each.

What happens if we setup the conditions for a control system that is
in chronic error until it starts to perceive some kind of N-level
variable?

I presume you mean "N-th level", not "N-level". There aren't any N-level variables, each perceptual variable being a scalar represented by the rate of firing in a specific nerve tract.

What defines a "level" in HPCT?

Follow the B:CP Chapter by Chapter seminar, or read B:CP by yourself. If you don't have a copy, I believe you can get one on-line. Simply put, in HPCT a level contains a type of perceptual function that is particular to that level and different from the type of perceptual function in other levels. The interconnections among control units are between consecutive levels and don't jump levels or connect within a level.

Can you have a system that overall seems to be "moving towards" a new
perceptual level?

Yes, if you drop "overall", which is just a condition in which more and more functions of a type are brought under control. Babies don't have all the levels that a mature person has. The levels develop as the person matures, but presumably by growing first one perceptual function at the new level and then more similar ones, not by creating all the perceptual functions of a level at once, instantaneously.

Martin

Hi Martin, Matti.

I'm sorry to interrupt�

MT :

Yes, if you drop "overall", which is just a condition in which more and
more functions of a type are brought under control. Babies don't have
all the levels that a mature person has. The levels develop as the
person matures, but presumably by growing first one perceptual function
at the new level and then more similar ones, not by creating all the
perceptual functions of a level at once, instantaneously.

HB :

I think Martin that Matti meant something much more wide than just "growing" control levels in humans. I think that he deliberately insert "overall mechanism" that seems to be "moving towards" a new perceptual level.

I'm still not sure about Matti's way of thinking but I thought it maybe could be something like "how organic life evolve from inorganic" and so on ? But I don't understand the word "fitness".

I'll try with imaginary example and maybe we could come closer in understanding each other.

Let us suppose that intrinsic variables "stand alone" in space, controlled only by "genetic programming" in a cell (maybe this is the structrue of virus). I will call this "1. live basic control level". So if we include "overall mechanism", logical question for me is, which evolutionary mecahnism "moved toward" 1. live basic control level (that controls intrinisic variables), and which mechanism "moved toward" next control level after "1. live basic control level" that controls individual growth of live organisms and evolution of life (N-next control level) ?

Was this the problem ?

Best,

Boris

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Taylor" <mmt-csg@MMTAYLOR.NET>
To: <CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 5:17 AM
Subject: Re: Perceptual functions for surface perception? (was Re: On the non-control of angles)

[Martin Taylor 2013.07.30.20.43]

[From Matti Kolu (2013.07.31.0100 CET)]

Martin Taylor 2013.07.30.11.42--

Randomly connecting neurons whose inputs ultimately derive
from sensors will result in a variety of computations of arbitrary
complexity. If actions consistently influence one of these computational
results, it could become a controlled perception, especially if controlling
it has some effect on an intrinsic variable.

I recently watched a recording of a lecture given by John Koza titled
"Automated Design Using Darwinian Evolution and Genetic Programming":
http://youtu.be/xIoytwJWJP8

His approach is probably familiar to some readers. Koza and his
colleagues have been using "Genetic Programming" to evolve, among
other things, analog circuits:

Yes, it's a long established technique, and one I used 20 years ago and
still do when trying to optimize control simulations. The problem with
trying to apply it to reorganization is that there has to be an
externally applied criterion to determine which members of the candidate
population survive to contribute to the next generation and which die
off without progeny. In real evolution, the environment supplies that
criterion and population members who have more descendants are more
likely to have their genes survive, even if their phenotypes don't.

"WHATEVER THE FIELD of endeavor, genetic programming begins with a
primordial ooze of randomly generated trial �organisms� and a
high-level description of what function the organisms are meant to
accomplish the criteria for scoring their fitness.

Exactly my point. When we are talking about reorganization, there is no
such high-level description, so this wouldn't work.

But there is a criterion, which is the maintenance of intrinsic
variables within ranges compatible with life that is continued long
enough to allow the propagation of genes. Generally speaking, the more
perceptions can be controlled, the more likely it is that some of them,
or some functions of some of them, affect the values of intrinsic
variables. Not all perceptual control will, but if the organism
"discovers" through random reconnection a perception that its actions
can influence and therefore that it can control, it is more likely than
not that there will be some occasions on which controlling that variable
proves useful. So, I would argue, perceptual functions that produce
controllable perceptions are more likely to survive future
reorganization than are perceptual functions that produce signals that
the organism has not found a way to control and that do not contribute
to perceptions the organism has learned to control.

...
Perhaps asking questions about how to construct perceptual functions
is the wrong approach. We already know -- loosely -- how perceptual
functions are constructed. They are the result of random variations.
So isn't the construction of perceptual functions just a matter of
exploiting randomness in the right way?

I think so, if "exploiting" is interpreted appropriately.

"...but how it functions is not understood."

Do we really have to think about *how* a N-level system functions?

We may not "have to", but Bill did, and it is very much worthwhile to
understand what he discovered and demonstrated, even if you then choose
to follow a different path. What Bill showed (among much else) is that
it is possible to create a multi-level multi-input multi-output control
hierarchy with randomly weighted interconnections, and by random
reorganization based on the ability to control, develop a system that
effectively can bring the high-level perceptions under control using
multiple input and outputs for each.

What happens if we setup the conditions for a control system that is
in chronic error until it starts to perceive some kind of N-level
variable?

I presume you mean "N-th level", not "N-level". There aren't any N-level
variables, each perceptual variable being a scalar represented by the
rate of firing in a specific nerve tract.

What defines a "level" in HPCT?

Follow the B:CP Chapter by Chapter seminar, or read B:CP by yourself. If
you don't have a copy, I believe you can get one on-line. Simply put, in
HPCT a level contains a type of perceptual function that is particular
to that level and different from the type of perceptual function in
other levels. The interconnections among control units are between
consecutive levels and don't jump levels or connect within a level.

Can you have a system that overall seems to be "moving towards" a new
perceptual level?

Yes, if you drop "overall", which is just a condition in which more and
more functions of a type are brought under control. Babies don't have
all the levels that a mature person has. The levels develop as the
person matures, but presumably by growing first one perceptual function
at the new level and then more similar ones, not by creating all the
perceptual functions of a level at once, instantaneously.

Martin