# Pigeon navigation

**URL:** <http://discourse.iapct.org/t/pigeon-navigation/8860>\
**Category:** CSG1996\
**Created:** [August 18, 1996, 9:20pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/pigeon-navigation/8860 "1996-08-18T21:20:38Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 2\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Bruce\_Abbott](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@Bruce\_Abbott](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Bruce_Abbott)\
**Post date:** [August 18, 1996, 9:20pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/pigeon-navigation/8860/1 "1996-08-18T21:20:38Z")

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[From Bruce Abbott (960818.1620 EST)]

> Rick Marken (960818.1400) --

> Bruce Abbott had suggested that Skinner was capitalizing on the pigeon's  
> navigational capabilities when he used the pigeon to guide a bomb to a  
> target. I think of "navigational capabilites" as the ability to determine  
> one's current position, select a course to a target position and "steer  
> the course" towards that target position. So from my point of view the  
> pigeon in the bomb was not navigating -- or using any special navigational  
> capabilities.

Now Rick, let's not put the blame on me -- I never said anything of the kind!

Bruce

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**Author:** ![Richard\_Marken](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@Richard\_Marken](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Richard_Marken)\
**Post date:** [August 19, 1996, 12:50am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/pigeon-navigation/8860/2 "1996-08-19T00:50:47Z")

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[From Rick Marken (960818.1750)]

Me:

> Bruce Abbott had suggested that Skinner was capitalizing on the pigeon's  
> navigational capabilities when he used the pigeon to guide a bomb to a  
> target.

Bruce Abbott (960818.1620 EST) --

> Now Rick, let's not put the blame on me -- I never said anything of  
> the kind!

You're right! Sorry. I remembered incorrectly. What you said was:

Bruce Abbott (960809.0820 EST) --

> he [Skinner] recognized that the bird's own flight is governed by  
> similar mechanisms.

and

Bruce Abbott (960810.1015 EST) --

> Although inertial guidance systems were available (e.g., V2 rocket),  
> their accuracy was as nothing compared to that of the visually-guided  
> pigeon system.

These statements apparently gave me the impression that you were saying  
that Skinner used a pigeon because it could navigate to targets better  
than existing navigational (inertial guidance) systems. In other words,  
I thought you were saying that the pigeon was used to fly (navigate) the  
bomb to the target. Can you see how I might have been fooled into thinking  
this by the way you compared an inertial guidance system to the "visually-  
guided pigeon system"? I think this is where I got the idea that you were  
saying that Skinner was capitalizing on the pigeon's superior navigational  
capabilities. It wasn't clear to me that what you meant was that the  
pigeon's ability to peck at targets was being used as the perceptual  
input function to the control system that was actually going to fly  
the bomb. I'll try to read more carefully next time;-)

Best

Rick