# Plant volatiles are multi-species CCVs

**URL:** <http://discourse.iapct.org/t/plant-volatiles-are-multi-species-ccvs/16082>\
**Category:** Collective Control\
**Created:** [October 6, 2023, 12:53pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/plant-volatiles-are-multi-species-ccvs/16082 "2023-10-06T12:53:16Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Showing post:** 4

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**Author:** ![rsmarken](http://discourse.iapct.org/user_avatar/discourse.iapct.org/rsmarken/32/3553_2.png) [@rsmarken](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/rsmarken)\
**Post date:** [October 10, 2023, 1:32am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/plant-volatiles-are-multi-species-ccvs/16082/4 "2023-10-10T01:32:09Z")

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> [@Modeling hierarchical control](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/modeling-hierarchical-control/16069/35):
>
> > [@Modeling hierarchical control](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/modeling-hierarchical-control/16069/35):
> >
> > > [@Modeling hierarchical control](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/modeling-hierarchical-control/16069/35):
> > >
> > > Collective control is a process by which diverse effects resolve to a single result, whether the participating autonomous control systems are cells or humans or any of a variety of other creatures. Such is the scope of PCT.
> > 
> > There are many processes, where “…diverse effects resolve to a single result” that don’t involve control. One of them is the process by which the cell body of a neuron resolves the diverse pulse trains entering it via dendrites into the single pulse train leaving it via the axon. I think we need a better definition of collective control. Doesn’t collective control have something to do with virtual controlled variables?
> 
> If it can be shown that this results from the control actions of distinct control systems within the cell body of a neuron then the definition is good enough.  
> Likewise, if no one has discovered autonomous control systems interacting within the neural cell with this collective result (and that is the case) the example has no claim on the definition, and the definition is good enough.

As usual, I don’t quite understand what you are saying. But I think you might be saying that we can’t say that seeing "diverse effects resolve to a single result” is “collective control” unless we can show that the entities producing the diverse effects are control systems. If you do this analysis I think you’ll find that some of the most interesting cases of what might appear to be collective control do not involve any control systems at all. An example of such a phenomenon is _spontaneous synchronization_ (SS).

There are actually many different examples of SS, all of which are lovely examples of diverse effects resolving to a single result. Several examples of SS are described in this [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-_VPRCtiUg). Some of these could be called collective control but others are simply results that are produced by a collective of causal systems; perhaps they should be called examples of _collective causality_. I suggest you watch the video and see if you can tell which phenomena are examples of collective control and which are examples of collective causality.

I, therefore, propose that your definition of collective control as "a phenomenon where diverse effects resolve to a single result” be augmented to read "a phenomenon where diverse effects _produced by a set of control systems_ resolve to a single result”, and that we use your definition of collective control as the definition collective causality.

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