I posted this last night. It has not shown up either. Resend with corrected
dating:
[Dag Forssell (940614 2015)] [Bill Leach 940614.19:42)]
When we talk about property rights, we are talking about agreements
between humans, enforceable - sometimes - by our institutionalized
means of overwhelming force, as administered by other humans.And this is not relevent to human behaviour?
It is indeed. Did I say it is not? As I recall, I was responding to
what I read as an unqualified acceptance that "rights" exist as
independent entities. I think of rights as subjective individual
perceptions, perhaps shared and agreed.
Thus, in a way, it seems that one should conclude from understanding PCT
that one should "pretty much let everyone else 'do their own thing'".
I actually don't have a whole lot of trouble with that idea.
I agree with that. I think this is what Bill P. alluded to when he
suggested that a parent or friend might sit down with a child as if the
child was a visitor from Mars, and explain what ethics is all about.
When we understand that we ourselves, individually, are living control
systems, it comes naturally to respect the other fellow as one, too.
Trouble is that not all people would (even if they understood PCT) allow
others to "control well". It is a serious philosophical question and one
that I fervently believe that PCT offers a great deal of insight.
It seems to me that the answer is simple and obvious. Whether or not you
understand yourself to be a control system, you can choose to try to
control others, just like I suggested that you can control a horse --
some people obviously do. I just think the odds of mutual respect and
cooperation go up when an understanding that we are control systems is
more explicit. The game is for each individual to control what is
important to the individual. I think it helps if each person bases the
personal choice of importance on a good understanding of the world (based
on tested evidence as much as possible, not fantasy), and this is a very
important subject for exchange of information on a broad range of
subjects. With an understanding of individual control, you have a basis
for negotiation and mutual recognition you did not have before.
I still believe that one can and should try to determine what behaviour
is or is not conducive to allowing a human to be a human.
As you said: "pretty much let everyone else 'do their own thing.'"
You mentioned parenting. "Pretty much let everyone else 'do their own
thing.'" applies to adults. I do believe that a parent, in addition to
instruction, can and sometimes should choose to deliver conflict as a way
to teach a developing child what agreements (Ed Ford's rules) are
enforced in the home and the society we perceive.
Best, Dag