[From Rick Marken (980519.1800)]
Bruce Gregory (980519.1430 EDT) --
I am beginning to suspect that Rick and Bill have so little useful
to say about RTP because PCT is seriously deficient when it comes
to modeling learning.
Talk about angry;-)
I guess you didn't find our comments [Rick Marken (80518.1100),
Bill Powers (980519.0143 MDT)] about RTP useful. I still don't
know why not. What's not "useful" about showing that an educational
program reduces conflict in the classroom?
PCT is, indeed, seriously deficient when it comes to modeling
learning. But this is because no one is studying how organisms
learn to control. There is no modeling of learning becuase there
is no data to model.
Indeed, a PCT analysis shows that it is probably impossible for
_any_ program to achieve the goal of "helping the disrupting
student accomplish his or her goals"
Bruce Gregory (9980519.1425 EDT) --
Rick, Rick. You're trying to annoy me by playing dumb. But I'm wise
to you. (Nobody could be _that_ dumb.)
No. I really was that dumb; I wasn't trying to annoy you. I took
your comment about "helping" to mean actually adding one's efforts
to those of the student in an attempt to help control the variable
the student is presumed to be controlling. Of course, coaches more
often help by trying to verbally describe (or show by example) the
perceptions the student should try to control.
Do you know of a less coercive system [than RTP] that works as well?
Please provide a model of coaching. It will be a great application
I agree that it would be a great application of PCT. Why don't
_you_ (the educator) provide the model?
I'll wait for your model of coaching.
That will be a long wait. I hope much longer than mine for yours;-)
We have listened to presentations on RTP from Ed and his people
_every year_ since 1985.
Tim Carey (980520.0630)--
This must be a typo Rick. Ed didn't start RTP until 1994 when he
created the program at Clarendon and Solano. Did you mean 1995?
I've known Ed since 1983 and we've been at CSG meetings together
every year since 1985. I think Ed has discussed programs that were
very similar to what is now called RTP at every CSG meeting since
1985. Anyway, I mentioned it because Bruce Gregory was saying that
Bill and I were talking through our hats because we had no
experience with RTP. In fact, we've had at least three years of
experience with it (including "role plays" to illustrate the
technique) at CSG meetings.
Richard S. Marken Phone or Fax: 310 474-0313
Life Learning Associates e-mail: email@example.com