S-R Wackos, Followers

[From Rick Marken (930421.0900)]

Greg Williams (930421 - really)

My original
point was that the govt. officials relied on the experts and, in my
opinion, triggered the tragedy via applying a significant disturbance
to the B.D. folks: tear gas;

I think the "relying on the experts" crap is just an extra little
cannard that the unwashed masses of the press and the republican
party are using to make the BD idiocy out to be the fault of the
government (and my man Bill C.). It is amazing to watch republicans
blaming bad behavior (mass suicide, murder of children) on the
environment instead of on the ridiculous, FREELY SELECTED belief
systems of the BD idiots. What happened to the republican belief in
personal responsibility and autonomy?; are they now going to start
blaming the environment for the high crime rates in the ghetto, now, too?

I think the critics of the government in this BD idiocy should really
go out and get a life. BELIEF killed the people in that compound, not
the (usually) stupid government (it is not stupid any longer because
it is headed by an intelligent, humane, honest fellow -- ie. someone
neither the press nor the republicans can possibly fathom). What killed
those people and their kids is the same thing that is killing people in
Bosnia; the same thing that has killed masses of people for centuries;
the same thing that the republicans were telling us would make our
country great (BELIEF in god and country). BELIEF killed those people.
The government has taken responsibility for its beliefs; how about
holding the BD idiots just as responsible for theirs?

David Goldstein (930421) --

Many sentences in your post are missing, making it incomprehensible;
perhaps you could try again? You did say:

Apparently, the most important principle was not:
no one should die over this.

I doubt that. Just because a result occurs does not mean that
the result was intended; not does it mean that it was not intended;
it just was a result. The fact is, people died; who knows how that
could have been avoided? I don't think the mass suicide was a control-
lable event anyway; you might have waited there for two years and had
the same thing happen when the BD idiots ran out of supplies
(or was the government supposed to start a catering service at
that point so that there would be no "disturbances" that might
lead to suicide by mass anorexia?).

I think the PCT point of view on this idiotic occurance has to be
that the BDs are completely and utterly responsible for what
happened to themselves and their kids. Blaming the government is SR
thinking to the max. The interesting question about the BD case is not
how the govenment might have handled things better (virtually impossible
to determine and very "external guidance" oriented anyway) -- the
interesting question is "what is belief, how does it fit into the
PCT model and why does it happen?".

The fact that children were adversely affected by the beliefs of
their parents is hardly the fault of the goverment. I don't think
it is the govenment's responsibility to save kids from the idiotic
beliefs of their parent; sometimes the beliefs that lead to this
kind of "helpful" behavior on the part of the government are just as
idiotic as the parent's beliefs. BELIEFS ARE BELIEFS. Look at
Christian Scientists -- do you think the government should protect
kids from those beliefs? I sure don't.

Being a kid is a risk -- you get the parent you get. Some kids have
parents with REALLY looney beliefs -- like judaism, catholicism,
islamism, hinduism, atheism, etc. Do we protect kids from those
beliefs? My wife is still recovering from catholicism -- should
the government have protected her from those pesky nuns?

Bill Powers (930420.1900)--

This makes me wonder about my own role. Are there people out
there who follow me in the same way?

Yes. I'll believe anything you say, oh great guru sir -- unless, of
course, you say that there IS information about the disturbance in
perception.

Actually, I tend to believe what you say only after I have tested
it with people and/or models. And, so far, your guruhood, you are
running at aboout a 98% correct clip (I forget what you were wrong
about -- but it did happen, I caught you, and you agreed that I was
right and we went on -- you're my kind of guru).

The sight of that compound going up in flames was pretty
discouraging.

No more than the republican national convention was to me.

Best

Rick

Rick writes:

[From Rick Marken (930421.0900)]

BELIEF killed the people in that compound, not

the (usually) stupid government (it is not stupid any longer because
it is headed by an intelligent, humane, honest fellow -- ie. someone
neither the press nor the republicans can possibly fathom).

Regardless of our approaches to perception and behavior, etc., Rick, how
is it possible to believe that having a head of state and government who
is all the things you say he is could result immediately in changes in
the way things are done by the FBI, etc.?

Eileen
eprince@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu