SD - MOL

[From Bjoern Simonsen (990701.22:00 EU time)]

I found it interesting reading your letter

From [ Marc Abrams (990526.0041) ]

Especially your comment

The point here is that if we ever hope to begin to understand the
hierarchy we will only be able to do it starting with OURSELVES.

I will try to tell you why.

For me it is a highlight that PCT is about _purposeful_behavior and the one who who is exhibiting the behavior is the one who owns the physiological fact behind the voluntary purposeful behavior. Therefore I agree with

The point here is that if we ever hope to begin to understand the
hierarchy we will only be able to do it starting with _OURSELVES.

Therefore SD-MOL excites me.

And I have been curious waiting for your next letter.

From [ Marc Abrams (990627.2020) ]

You

I would appreciate it if the criticisms be of the constructive kind. ( i.e…
try to show your line of reasoning behind your comments )

I’ll try

… So I am continuing to work on the method and refine it so
it will be a viable way of looking qualitatively at CV’s and levels.

If we are going to use SD-MOL it is a supposition that we know the levels and more about them. So if the method is helping to get a more qualitatively look upon the levels, I will use it. (I am going to have a vacation for a week 990712 and I’ll try it)

I understand it as I am going to write an AOC. This need not being a problem, just an AOC.

And of course there are one or many references in one or more levels steering this AOC.

And of course there are references in one or more levels steering this AOCE’s…

I am also going to list 4 to 5 AOCE’s. Neither this need to be problems , just AOCE’s

Having a folded sheet for an AOCE, I am going to list some of the things that actually happened with regard to the AOCE on the right side.

Now I am analyzing an AOCE.

you wrote

Step5: On the right side of the paper writer down thoughts you had ABOUT
those events.

I guess you ment the left side.

Now I am studying an AOCE more intense

When I am writing down thoughts about an AOC I am getting more information about the AOCE.

But here is my problem. Which level am I working on? How do I learn to look more qualitatively at CV’s and levels.

Maybe you will give me some comments?

I am working with a model myself. I started with the names of the levels. Then I wrote many synonymous of the name of the levels, exempli gratia:

  1. sequences ;     result, consequence, continuation, and more
    

If I use your example

<As an example throughout this explanation of the method I will use an AOCE

of,
1c) Mentally reviewed my morning to-do list

My first question is " At what level am I perceiving " Mentally reviewing my morning to-do list".

If I answer myself that the level is Level 4 “sequences”, then I ask myself questions about the synonymous of the word sequences.

I may ask." What is the consequence of doing A" “What may the result be” and so on.

Then I move up a level and ask myself questions about my “Mentally reviewing my morning to-do list”
related to this level. Exempli gratia: " What is the relationship between…" And I ask myself questions using the synonymous to relationship.

In this way I move up a level to the top. And in this way I hope to name my references for

my AOCE’s

For my own matter I will use my knowledge about the references when and if I decide to change my behavior.

I will be more concrete about this in the autumn this year.

Could we combine our methods?

PS. I see a relationship between your thoughts about quality knowledge about CV and levels and your

From [ Marc Abrams (990629.1644) ]

Changing Controlled Variables. This I will comment later.

Bjoern

I manage what I choose

E-mail bsimonse@c2i.net

from [ Marc Abrams (990701.1623) ]

[From Bjoern Simonsen (990701.22:00 EU time)]

I guess you ment the left side.

Yes, thank you :slight_smile:

Bjoern:
_Now I am studying an AOCE more intense_

When I am writing down thoughts about an AOC I am getting more information
about the AOCE.

But here is my problem. Which level am I working on? How do I learn to look
more qualitatively at CV's and levels.

Don't worry or think about levels or CV's. The sole purpose is to continue
to think about what you _know_ about those things. The purpose is to
develop a chain of thoughts. Going in, we may _assume_ that what we are
looking at are CV's and levels ( whenever you ask yourself a question
_about_ something else, you may be going up a level ) _DO NOT TRY AND
CORRELATE THIS WITH THE LEVELS IN THE HPCT_. _After the exercise is done, we
can more readily "see" what the CV's might be and if and what kind of
"levels" there might be.

Bjoern:
Maybe you will give me some comments?

Me:
I hope I answered your main concern. If your not crystal clear on this let
me know. This is important.

Bloern:
I am working with a model myself. I started with the names of the levels.
Then I wrote many synonymous of the name of the levels, exempli gratia:
sequences ; result, consequence, continuation, and more
If I use your example

<As an example throughout this explanation of the method I will use an AOCE

of,
1c) Mentally reviewed my morning to-do list

My first question is " At what level am I perceiving " Mentally reviewing my
morning to-do list".

Me:
The problem with this, is as Bill pointed out yesterday. We can _imagine_
all the levels. What I am trying to do with SD-MOL is _not_ to try and
collaborate the theoretical structure Bill has put forward. It is to see
_if_ we can identify _any_ levels and what the nature of those levels might
be. All the levels identified will be part of the "upper" part of the
hierarchy. To paraphase a noted Social Psychologist, Karl Weick, "We won't
know what we have until we see what we say" :slight_smile:

Bjoern:
If I answer myself that the level is Level 4 "sequences", then I ask myself
questions about the synonymous of the word sequences.
I may ask." What is the consequence of doing A" "What may the result be"
and so on.

Me:
Again, this is all conjecture ( imagination ) on your part. Many "things"
are happening on all levels continously and simultaneously. The SD-MOL is
simply a way of trying to "capture" some of what is going on. The "labeling"
( identifying CV's and levels ) of what we describe is another distinct
issue that takes place _after_ we have described the AOC and AOCE's.

Bjoern:
Then I move up a level and ask myself questions about my "Mentally reviewing
my morning to-do list"
related to this level. Exempli gratia: " What is the relationship
between....." And I ask myself questions using the synonymous to
relationship.

In this way I move up a level to the top. And in this way I hope to name my
references for
my AOCE's

Me:
The top of the hierarchy does not represent the "references" for the entire
_hierarchy_ _Each_ Control loop on each level, provides the reference for
each control loop on the level below. It's a very messy business :-). The
hierarchy does not represent a sequential optimization from one level to the
next. The hierarchy can and does represent some discontinuous behaviors
some control systems want and crave drugs, cigarettes, etc. while other
control systems are being eliminated and harmed by the former )

Bjoern:
Again, the problem is
For my own matter I will use my knowledge about the references when and if I
decide to change my behavior.
I will be more concrete about this in the autumn this year.

Me:
As Bill noted yesterday, You can only perceive your "references" in
imagination. When you say "changing your" behavior". Are you speaking of the
entire control process or of you output ( actions ) alone?

Bjoern:
Could we combine our methods?

Me:
Not that I can see. You seem to want to " fit the data" into a pre-existing
structure ( the hierarchy ). I am trying to explore what a level actually
might be and how the control processes interact on and between levels.
Again, I have no idea whether I can do this and whether it is even feasable,
but hopefully we can get some handle on _how_ we might be able to look at
some of this stuff in the future,

Bjoern:
I manage what I choose

Yes, but how do you "choose" something :slight_smile:

Enjoy your vacation

Marc