# Seeking Insights: Applying PCT to Group Dynamics

**URL:** <http://discourse.iapct.org/t/seeking-insights-applying-pct-to-group-dynamics/16135>\
**Category:** Uncategorized\
**Created:** [October 30, 2024, 8:18am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/seeking-insights-applying-pct-to-group-dynamics/16135 "2024-10-30T08:18:38Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 13\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Niqs](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/n/e68b1a/32.png) [@Niqs](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Niqs)\
**Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 8:18am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/seeking-insights-applying-pct-to-group-dynamics/16135/1 "2024-10-30T08:18:38Z")

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Hi everyone,

I’m a designer with over 30 years of experience, currently delving into psychology at the Open University. I’ve been intrigued by Perceptual Control Theory (PCT) and its potential to explain human behavior and interaction. However, I’m still grappling with the full potential of this theory.

While I understand PCT’s power in explaining individual behavior, I’m curious about its applicability to **group dynamics** , especially in the context of **participatory design sessions**. How might PCT help us understand and potentially influence the complex interplay of **social factors, shared goals, and individual perspectives** within these collaborative settings?

I’m eager to learn more and would appreciate any tips, resources, or insights from experienced PCT practitioners. Are there specific aspects of PCT that might be particularly relevant to this context, or perhaps alternative approaches that could complement PCT in understanding group dynamics?

Thank you in advance for your guidance!  
_Nique Sanders_

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**Author:** ![wmansell](http://discourse.iapct.org/user_avatar/discourse.iapct.org/wmansell/32/36_2.png) [@wmansell](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/wmansell)\
**Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 9:28am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/seeking-insights-applying-pct-to-group-dynamics/16135/2 "2024-10-30T09:28:16Z")

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Very exciting Nique!  
I have an article I can email you if you get in touch at [wmansell@gmail.com](mailto:wmansell@gmail.com).  
But have you read Kent McClelland’s work?

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**Author:** ![Niqs](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/n/e68b1a/32.png) [@Niqs](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Niqs)\
**Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 10:37am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/seeking-insights-applying-pct-to-group-dynamics/16135/3 "2024-10-30T10:37:24Z")

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Thanks for your quick reply and the great tip! I’ll definitely check out the OU library for more on his work on collective control processes, interpersonal conflicts, and social policies. Can’t wait to dive in! I’m really grateful for the article. I’ll reach out via email to get it. Best, Nique

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**Author:** ![rsmarken](http://discourse.iapct.org/user_avatar/discourse.iapct.org/rsmarken/32/3553_2.png) [@rsmarken](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/rsmarken)\
**Post date:** [October 30, 2024, 7:04pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/seeking-insights-applying-pct-to-group-dynamics/16135/4 "2024-10-30T19:04:18Z")

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Hi Nique

It would be great if you could post here on Discourse what you find out about applying PCT to group dynamics.

Thanks

Best, Rick

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**Author:** ![Niqs](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/n/e68b1a/32.png) [@Niqs](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Niqs)\
**Post date:** [October 31, 2024, 9:07am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/seeking-insights-applying-pct-to-group-dynamics/16135/5 "2024-10-31T09:07:07Z")

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Hi Rick, thanks for reaching out!  
Once I’m more familiar with the concept and have had more time to play around with it, I’ll definitely do that! For now I’m still learning. What would be the best category for a general PCT ‘Ask-Me-Anything’ type of question?  
_Nique_

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**Author:** ![rsmarken](http://discourse.iapct.org/user_avatar/discourse.iapct.org/rsmarken/32/3553_2.png) [@rsmarken](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/rsmarken)\
**Post date:** [October 31, 2024, 5:43pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/seeking-insights-applying-pct-to-group-dynamics/16135/6 "2024-10-31T17:43:10Z")

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What a great idea. I’m going to start an “Ask Me Anything” Topic in the Fundamentals category.

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**Author:** ![bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/user_avatar/discourse.iapct.org/bnhpct/32/34_2.png) [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\
**Post date:** [October 31, 2024, 8:12pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/seeking-insights-applying-pct-to-group-dynamics/16135/7 "2024-10-31T20:12:46Z")

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Nique, I replied by email yesterday but it seems not to have posted.

I can send you a dropbox link to my folder of Kent McClelland’s writings on request.

Martin Taylor’s 4-volume work covers a _lot_ more ground, including collective control. The draft submitted for publication, prior to editing, is posted on our IAPCT website [here](https://www.iapct.org/publications/books/powers-of-perceptual-control/).

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**Author:** ![bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/user_avatar/discourse.iapct.org/bnhpct/32/34_2.png) [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\
**Post date:** [November 1, 2024, 12:38pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/seeking-insights-applying-pct-to-group-dynamics/16135/8 "2024-11-01T12:38:43Z")

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With Rick’s enthusiastic concurrence, I’ve created the “Ask Me a Question” subcategory in the “Learning PCT” category.

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**Author:** ![bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/user_avatar/discourse.iapct.org/bnhpct/32/34_2.png) [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\
**Post date:** [November 1, 2024, 12:47pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/seeking-insights-applying-pct-to-group-dynamics/16135/9 "2024-11-01T12:47:51Z")

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Well, I changed it to Rick’s title, “Ask Me Anything”. It could be any of us who responds to a question, but why not. The concierge impression is a fiction, but it’s a fiction with a nice personal feeling, which seems appropriate. We _are_ all here to help.

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**Author:** ![Niqs](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/n/e68b1a/32.png) [@Niqs](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Niqs)\
**Post date:** [November 1, 2024, 2:27pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/seeking-insights-applying-pct-to-group-dynamics/16135/10 "2024-11-01T14:27:27Z")

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Hi Bruce, thanks for the tips! I’m currently diving into Kent McClelland’s papers and am eager to explore Martin Taylor’s insights on group dynamics. I’ll tackle that next.  
Best, _Nique_

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**Author:** ![bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/user_avatar/discourse.iapct.org/bnhpct/32/34_2.png) [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\
**Post date:** [November 1, 2024, 7:09pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/seeking-insights-applying-pct-to-group-dynamics/16135/11 "2024-11-01T19:09:56Z")

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Vol. 1 of Martin’s book has been edited and published. It’s available on Amazon [here](https://www.amazon.com/Powers-Perceptual-Control-Language-Politics/dp/1938090144/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1HJVY5Z4IO4M1&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.JD3pBCRlmhD3Fln2MwXOiw.9v8mBwFWvuHpvvEIzSjhOLRdMaon6R4wMyGIVNrtCbc&dib_tag=se&keywords=books%3A+martin+taylor+powers+of+perceptual+control&qid=1730488061&sprefix=books+martin+taylor+powers+of+perceptual+control%2Caps%2C92&sr=8-1). Rich Pfau is making good progress copy editing Vol. 2, I’m the laggard with content editing.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/user_avatar/discourse.iapct.org/bnhpct/32/34_2.png) [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\
**Post date:** [November 3, 2024, 1:40pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/seeking-insights-applying-pct-to-group-dynamics/16135/12 "2024-11-03T13:40:22Z")

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Following up on your initial post, Nique, you identify as a designer. Can you be more specific? There are many kinds of designers, ranging from the esthetics of interior design and theater sets to design of systems in an engineering discipline or operations research (Martin’s undergraduate training).

You say that you “understand PCT’s power in explaining individual behavior.” Have you worked through the demonstration programs in _Living Control Systems III_? They are available [here](http://www.livingcontrolsystems.com/lcs3/content_lcs3.html).

Please indulge me in an explanation of why that is important.

PCT is a ‘hard’ science integrating physics, neuroscience, and other fields with the mathematics of control theory and the properties of analog computer systems. Perceptions are ultimately subjective experiences, but _control_ of perceptions—the fundamental data of PCT—  
is objectively observed, and perceptions as _signals_—a construct of the theory—are identified with objective phenomena within organisms.

Some applications of PCT use it as a narrative framework to explain subjective experience. A hazard that we have repeatedly encountered over the years is that an informal understanding of narratives about control can easily slip-slide to include assumptions that contradict the fundamentals of control.

A cure for this ill is visceral experience of what control is. A good way to get that visceral experience is actually interacting with those [programs in LCS III](http://www.livingcontrolsystems.com/lcs3/content_lcs3.html) which Bill wrote to demonstrate properties of control systems, and [earlier demonstrations and simulations](http://www.livingcontrolsystems.com/demos/tutor_pct.html) of his. Rick also has some on his website [here](https://www.mindreadings.com/demos.htm).

The process is likely to surface assumptions for reconsideration. For some folks this has been challenging. The book of [Phil Runkel’s correspondence with Bill](http://www.livingcontrolsystems.com/dialogue/content_dialogue.html) demonstrates this helpfully.

Maybe you’ve been traveling this road for a while, unbeknownst to us. Please give us a better sese of what you bring to this and how far along you are with this process, so we can better be of help.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Niqs](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/n/e68b1a/32.png) [@Niqs](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/Niqs)\
**Post date:** [November 3, 2024, 3:44pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/seeking-insights-applying-pct-to-group-dynamics/16135/13 "2024-11-03T15:44:01Z")

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I see your point, and I appreciate the insight into the risks of an informal understanding of PCT and how it could dilute its core principles.

I’m not an engineer or programmer; my background is in design methods, design thinking, and systems thinking, with a strong focus on the end user. My goal is not just to innovate but to drive meaningful societal change. That said, I recognize that PCT is more than just a narrative framework—it’s a rigorous, interdisciplinary science grounded in control theory, neuroscience, and physics.

I’ve experimented with some online examples for a hands-on feel, but I haven’t yet explored _Living Control Systems III_. I’m genuinely interested in trying these demo programs to gain the “visceral” understanding of control you mentioned—it sounds like an effective way to surface any unconscious assumptions I may be holding.

Thanks for steering me in this direction.