# Successor to CSG-net

**URL:** <http://discourse.iapct.org/t/successor-to-csg-net/10892>\
**Category:** CSG2017\
**Created:** [August 24, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/successor-to-csg-net/10892 "2017-08-24T18:46:06Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 2

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![rupert](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/f14d63/32.png) [@rupert](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/rupert)\
**Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 12:56pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/successor-to-csg-net/10892/21 "2017-08-29T12:56:08Z")

</div>

[From Rupert Young (2017.08.29 14.00)]

(Dag Forssell (2017.08.27 15:25 PDT)]

> The way I see it, we don't need more people to help out.

Well, it would be useful if someone performed the installation of MyBB whereever it is going to be. Also if someone had a look at the plugins to see which ones would be useful for us.

> Well, Martin Taylor for ECACS, of course.
> 
> If my assumptions/interpretation that I spelled out and implemented yesterday make sense, most importantly to Rupert, but also to the board and others, all I need do is to provide Rupert with FTP access to the two folders at iapct.org -- CSGnet and Forum. (Rupert can share with others as he sees fit).

I'll need command line access to the server and database access through phpmyadmin.

> Perhaps Rupert can transfer the subscriber list. But I think it will be a good idea for me to email all CSGnet subscribers. A good number of addresses will bounce, saying there is no such address.

I'm hoping that I can set up users as part of the migration.

> However, it seems to me that setting up IAPCTnet is primary. It can and should be done rather immediately. Sorting out the existing archive and populating the forum with the result is a secondary effort that likely will take Rupert some time.

If you mean a new domain then yes. Presumably this is one which is owned by CSG.  
The initiation of the forum itself is probably best left until I have verified the migration process as I wouldn't want to do it in a live environment.

Rupert

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/user_avatar/discourse.iapct.org/bnhpct/32/34_2.png) [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\
**Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 2:05pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/successor-to-csg-net/10892/22 "2017-08-29T14:05:29Z")

</div>

[From Bruce Nevin (2017.08.29.10:04 ET)]

Martin Taylor 2017.08.28.11.59 –

> > In the case of ECACS “short-lived” means from February 2004 to March 2014.

My apology. Poorly remembered. “Untimely ended” or “late lamented” would have been more like it.

> **···**
>
> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:46 AM, Martin Taylor [mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net](mailto:mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net) wrote:
> 
> > > [From MK (2017.08.28.1215 CET)]
> > > 
> > > Bruce Nevin (2017.08.27.18:02 ET)–
> > > 
> > > > Recalling last Spring’s thread “Possible new forum (was Re: CSGnet authorship 2017)”, let’s bear in mind the desirability of migrating threads from the short-lived ECACS forum to the new platform.  
> > > > Maybe it was short-lived for a reason.
> > > 
> > > Reorganize.
> > > 
> > > Do not try to resuscitate failed experiments.
> > > 
> > > Hiking the PCT is best done without needless baggage.
> > > 
> > > M
> > 
> > [Martin Taylor 2017.08.28.11.59]
> > 
> > There are usually reasons why things happen the way they do. Not all are individually important or generalizable. And language is a malleable artifact…
> > 
> > In the case of ECACS “short-lived” means from February 2004 to March 2014.
> > 
> > I can identify three probable reasons for its final demise. (1) ECACS was an acronym for “Exploration of Complex Adaptive Control Systems”, with the emphasis on “Complex” and “Adaptive”. Although everything in it was about PCT, several of the contributors had felt rather unwelcome on the more purist and less exploratory CSGnet either personally or in respect of the topics they wanted to pursue. Most of the contributors continued to participate on CSGnet talking mainly about more purist single-loop topics, and I suspect that many (among whom I include myself) found it rather a strain to be contributing both to the Forum and to the e-mail conversation. (2) One of the major contributors to ECACS died, and I think that afterwards the number of thought-provoking contributions declined below the critical mass at which members would make a habit of logging in. (3) The developer went out of business without providing a security update, and it must have got hacked, because my ISP told me the domain had been reported as being used for malicious purposes, so I immediately shut it down. I had intended to get it converted to another forum form, but never got around to doing so.
> > 
> > I wouldn’t really call ECACS a failed experiment. It was a forum very much like what is being discussed as a replacement for CSGnet. Members could receive messages as e-mail notices, as e-mail with full content, or just read the Forum. I don’t remember whether we implemented the ability to add to a thread by replying to an e-mail, but we intended to, and may have done. We (the membership generally) did think that facility would be desirable. Once in a while an administrator might think a thread had gone too far off topic, and would split off the deviant part to form a linked but separate thread. We had a designated area for “spats” (not the kind a Victorian gentleman would wear), but if things got too nasty, we could (and did) suspend a member’s posting privileges.
> > 
> > Some of the ECACS concepts were “experiments” in the sense that they were not available to the mailing list, and were tried out over the short (as compared to CSGnet) life of the ECACS forum. For example, right at the top level there was a fixed set of root topics, including Administrative announcements and planning, for documents and links (like Dag’s), for academic discussion of theory, for Applications and Software, and for material such as postings we thought should be kept for posterity.
> > 
> > I wouldn’t say the ECACS concepts all “failed”, and I think some of the threads were quite useful for further reference. In particular, in such a forum, no thread is ever closed, or even forgotten since its title is always on display, and if one has new thoughts on an old topic, the relevance of the addition is immediately obvious. In fact, looking at a little of ECACS this morning to find its starting and stopping dates, I noticed that I had posted a response in 2014 to a thread in which the last previous message was sent in 2004.
> > 
> > I think the traveller is the one best suited to determining what baggage is or is not needed. I would consider lots of old CSGnet threads “needless baggage”, but no way would I censor them from a new forum. Someone else might find them useful. The same is true of several threads (and one or two posters) on the ECACS forum.
> > 
> > * * *
> > 
> > By the way, I second Bruce’s concept for the forum name. “IAPCTnet” doesn’t roll off the tongue as PCTnet would do. Nor is it as easily explained to a potential new member. PCTnet sounds as though it is about PCT, the “International Association” is about PCT, but IAPCTnet sounds as though it is about the international association, not about PCT.
> > 
> > Martin
> > 
> > Martin

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![rsmarken](http://discourse.iapct.org/user_avatar/discourse.iapct.org/rsmarken/32/3553_2.png) [@rsmarken](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/rsmarken)\
**Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 4:16pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/successor-to-csg-net/10892/23 "2017-08-29T16:16:52Z")

</div>

[From Rick Marken (2017.08.29.0915)]

> **···**
>
> > Rupert Young (2017.08.29 14.00)
> > 
> > RY: Well, it would be useful if someone performed the installation of MyBB wherever it is going to be. Also if someone had a look at the plugins to see which ones would be useful for us.
> 
> RM: Ah, there’s the rub. What server should MyBB be installed on? It presumably should be one that will be around for awhile, along with continuous management, assuming that PCT does eventually catch on;-) Given that consideration, it seems that the best place to move CSGNet might be some existing platform, like Google Groups. Apparently we had actually tried this in 2014 but it didn’t seem to catch on (the Google CSGNet site is here:Â [https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/csgnet](https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/csgnet)). Of course, that still leaves the problem of hosting the existing CSGNet archives but maybe there’s a way to get them up there too.Â
> 
> RM: Anyway, the permanence and continuity of the forum would seem to be an important consideration. By the way, I still like the current, good old fashioned CSGNet the best. The main problem with it, from my perspective, is maintaining continuity of management.Â
> 
> Best
> 
> Rick
> 
> Â
> 
> > > Well, Martin Taylor for ECACS, of course.
> > > 
> > > If my assumptions/interpretation that I spelled out and implemented yesterday make sense, most importantly to Rupert, but also to the board and others, all I need do is to provide Rupert with FTP access to the two folders at [iapct.org](http://iapct.org) – CSGnet and Forum. (Rupert can share with others as he sees fit).
> > > 
> > > Perhaps Rupert can transfer the subscriber list. But I think it will be a good idea for me to email all CSGnet subscribers. A good number of addresses will bounce, saying there is no such address.  
> > > However, it seems to me that setting up IAPCTnet is primary. It can and should be done rather immediately. Sorting out the existing archive and populating the forum with the result is a secondary effort that likely will take Rupert some time.
> > 
> > I’ll need command line access to the server and database access through phpmyadmin.
> > 
> > Â I’m hoping that I can set up users as part of the migration.
> > 
> > If you mean a new domain then yes. Presumably this is one which is owned by CSG.
> > 
> > The initiation of the forum itself is probably best left until I have verified the migration process as I wouldn’t want to do it in a live environment.
> > 
> > Rupert
> 
> –  
> Richard S. MarkenÂ
> 
> "Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you  
> have nothing left to take away.�  
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![DagArchive](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@DagArchive](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/DagArchive)\
**Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/successor-to-csg-net/10892/24 "2017-08-29T18:01:42Z")

</div>

[Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 10:30 PDT)]

So far no reply to my post last midnight, but this post from Rupert holds  
a key sentence that makes a difference:

> I’ll need command line access to  
> the server and database access through phpmyadmin.

I have looked into that by searching help at  
[www.powweb.com](http://www.powweb.com/). It  
becomes clear to me that Rupert does in fact need to log in to the  
server. Logging in to the folder where MyBB is installed is not enough.  
We need another approach. Either for Rupert to host [iapct.org](http://iapct.org) in  
his system if it is similar to mine, or for a new hosting account.  
A new hosting account, exclusive for IAPCT, paid for by IAPCT, would be  
my suggestion.  
Here is where we / I stand:  
The domain name [iapct.org](http://iapct.org) is held by a separate account at  
[www.GoDaddy.com](http://www.godaddy.com/).  
It is paid up through July 2021. When it is time to renew, I  
suggest a move to  
[www.namecheap.com](http://www.namecheap.com/)  
because GoDaddy has become expensive. Because I created an account  
separate from my other domains at GoDaddy, it is easy to just hand over  
the login info to a new webmaster, such as Rupert. Rupert and the board  
get to agree on a hosting company. When set up, Rupert can transfer  
[iapct.org](http://iapct.org) to the new hosting.  
In the overall scheme of things, I think this will be a good move. I will  
be happy to hand over the reins to a younger, committed PCTer. With a  
stand-alone registration and hosting, Rupert can have other young,  
dedicated PCTers as backup or active collaborators. Adam Matic comes to  
my mind, but Rupert may know others. I will be happy to support the  
operation if Rupert wants me to.  
The key move here is to divorce [iapct.org](http://iapct.org) from my system.  
My hosting at  
[www.PowWeb.com](http://www.powweb.com/) is  
“unlimited” but in practice, becase of an error on their part,  
I was notified about a year ago that they frown on accounts exceeding 25  
GB and especially accounts that stream movies. For movies, use YouTube or  
such. The eleven sites at my account hold some 5.5 GB.  
[www.powweb.com](http://www.powweb.com/)  
advertises a low price to start, but show a regular price of 11.95 per  
month. When in October 2016 PowWeb wanted $143 from me, I protested and  
mentioned another host, 1&1. They suggested “The One Plan”  
and I paid $178.20 for three years. That is just under $60 per year, or  
$5 per month. I have been very happy with their performance and support  
over the years. Checking out  
[  
http://www.powweb.com/powweb/hosting.bml](http://www.powweb.com/powweb/hosting.bml) and scrolling down to the  
bottom, I see 3 years(\_\__65% OFF!_ ) $3.88/month\* \_\_$139.68.

When after three years they raise the rate, you contact them, protest,  
mention 1&1 or some such, and continue with “The One Plan”.

To me, a new hosting account that IAPCT takes charge of will provide the  
permanence that Rick just mentioned in his post.

Best to all,

Dag

> **···**
>
> > [From Rupert Young (2017.08.29  
> > 14.00)]
> > 
> > (Dag Forssell (2017.08.27 15:25 PDT)]
> > 
> > > The way I see it, we don’t need more people to help  
> > > out.
> > 
> > Well, it would be useful if someone performed the installation of MyBB  
> > whereever it is going to be. Also if someone had a look at the plugins to  
> > see which ones would be useful for us.
> > 
> > > Well, Martin Taylor for ECACS,  
> > > of course.
> > > 
> > > If my assumptions/interpretation that I spelled out and implemented  
> > > yesterday make sense, most importantly to Rupert, but also to the board  
> > > and others, all I need do is to provide Rupert with FTP access to the two  
> > > folders at [iapct.org](http://iapct.org) – CSGnet and Forum. (Rupert can share with others  
> > > as he sees fit).
> > 
> > I’ll need command line access to the server and database access through  
> > phpmyadmin.
> > 
> > > Perhaps Rupert can transfer the subscriber list. But I think it will be a  
> > > good idea for me to email all CSGnet subscribers. A good number of  
> > > addresses will bounce, saying there is no such address.
> > 
> > � I’m hoping that I can set up users as part of the migration.
> > 
> > > However, it seems to me that  
> > > setting up IAPCTnet is primary. It can and should be done rather  
> > > immediately. Sorting out the existing archive and populating the forum  
> > > with the result is a secondary effort that likely will take Rupert some  
> > > time.
> > 
> > If you mean a new domain then yes. Presumably this is one which is owned  
> > by CSG.
> > 
> > The initiation of the forum itself is probably best left until I have  
> > verified the migration process as I wouldn’t want to do it in a live  
> > environment.
> > 
> > Rupert

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![MartinT](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/ee7513/32.png) [@MartinT](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/MartinT)\
**Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 6:40pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/successor-to-csg-net/10892/25 "2017-08-29T18:40:56Z")

</div>

[Martin Taylor 2017.08.29.14.36]

> [Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 10:30 PDT)]
> 
> ```
> So far no reply to my post last midnight, but this post from
> 
> ```
> 
> Rupert holds  
> a key sentence that makes a difference:
> 
> > ```
> > I'll need command
> > 
> > ```
> > 
> > line access to  
> > the server and database access through phpmyadmin.
> 
> ```
> I have looked into that by searching help at
> 
> ```
> 
> [www.powweb.com](http://www.powweb.com/) . It  
> becomes clear to me that Rupert does in fact need to log in to the  
> server. Logging in to the folder where MyBB is installed is not  
> enough.
> 
> ```
> We need another approach. Either for Rupert to host iapct.org in
> 
> ```
> 
> his system if it is similar to mine, or for a new hosting  
> account.  
> A new hosting account, exclusive for IAPCT, paid for by IAPCT,  
> would be  
> my suggestion.
> 
> ```
> Here is where we / I stand:
> 
> The domain name iapct.org is held by a separate account at
> 
> ```
> 
> [www.GoDaddy.com](http://www.godaddy.com/) .  
> It is paid up through July 2021. When it is time to renew, I  
> suggest a move to  
> [www.namecheap.com](http://www.namecheap.com/) because GoDaddy has  
> become expensive. Because I created an account  
> separate from my other domains at GoDaddy, it is easy to just hand  
> over  
> the login info to a new webmaster, such as Rupert. Rupert and the  
> board  
> get to agree on a hosting company. When set up, Rupert can  
> transfer  
> [iapct.org](http://iapct.org) to the new hosting.
> 
> ```
> In the overall scheme of things, I think this will be a good move.
> 
> ```
> 
> I will  
> be happy to hand over the reins to a younger, committed PCTer.  
> With a  
> stand-alone registration and hosting, Rupert can have other young,  
> dedicated PCTers as backup or active collaborators. Adam Matic  
> comes to  
> my mind, but Rupert may know others. I will be happy to support  
> the  
> operation if Rupert wants me to.
> 
> ```
> The key move here is to divorce iapct.org from my system.
> 
> My hosting at
> 
> ```
> 
> [www.PowWeb.com](http://www.powweb.com/) is  
> “unlimited” but in practice, becase of an error on their part,  
> I was notified about a year ago that they frown on accounts  
> exceeding 25  
> GB and especially accounts that stream movies. For movies, use  
> YouTube or  
> such. The eleven sites at my account hold some 5.5 GB.
> 
> ```
> [www.powweb.com](http://www.powweb.com/)
> advertises a low price to start, but show a regular price of 11.95
> 
> ```
> 
> per  
> month. When in October 2016 PowWeb wanted $143 from me, I  
> protested and  
> mentioned another host, 1&1. They suggested “The One Plan”  
> and I paid $178.20 for three years. That is just under $60 per  
> year, or  
> $5 per month. I have been very happy with their performance and  
> support  
> over the years. Checking out  
> [  
> http://www.powweb.com/powweb/hosting.bml](http://www.powweb.com/powweb/hosting.bml) and scrolling down  
> to the  
> bottom, I see 3 years(\_\__65% OFF!_ ) $3.88/month\* \_\_$139.68.
> 
> ```
> When after three years they raise the rate, you contact them,
> 
> ```
> 
> protest,  
> mention 1&1 or some such, and continue with “The One Plan”.
> 
> ```
> To me, a new hosting account that IAPCT takes charge of will
> 
> ```
> 
> provide the  
> permanence that Rick just mentioned in his post.  
> In view of that, I am posting publicly a message I sent to Dag and  
> Rupert, with minor edits.

> **···**
>
> * * *
> 
> ```
> If there's any problem with Dag's site, I have an unlimited
> 
> ```
> 
> number of domains and of storage space on Dreamhost, which has  
> quite a lot of facilities. A couple of my domains are administered  
> by someone else with full shell access. Following is a list of  
> their “one-click installs”. Maybe the IAPCT would like a PCT Wiki,  
> or Zencart for fees, etc? Rupert might like phpBB. A domain is not  
> free, but the cost is about $15/yr , plus $36/yr if you want them  
> to keep the site clean of malware, and the “one-click installs”  
> are free as far as I know (I do have a MediaWiki, but I haven’t  
> looked at it for a long time. I might have installed it myself,  
> because these one-click installs are mostly newer than my  
> Dreamhost membership).
> 
> ```
> Of course, if you like the Dreamhost facilities, I don't have to
> 
> ```
> 
> host the domain. IAPCT could own it and register it, with Rupert  
> and others to administer it.
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> Martin
> 
> ![MediaWiki icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/c/cf774d696d5028548fa57d4f3fa7db603590d847.png)
> 
> ```
> MediaWiki, the software behind
> 
> ```
> 
> Wikipedia, is free collaborative software.
> 
> Wiki, Featured
> 
> ```
> MediaWiki
> 
> ```
> 
> ![WordPress icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/1/1d6de28c1a04ac7279263e285751dfa051675cee.png)
> 
> ```
> WordPress is a free web-based
> 
> ```
> 
> software you can use to create a website or blog.
> 
> Blog, CMS, Featured
> 
> ```
> WordPress
> 
> ```
> 
> ![concrete5 icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/6/622c86e33e28f01f27fabffc46d7192c79c5e13e.png)
> 
> ```
> concrete5 is a website
> 
> ```
> 
> building tool that is simple for site owners to use, and  
> powerful for site developers to work with.
> 
> CMS, Forum
> 
> ```
> concrete5
> 
> ```
> 
> ![dotProject icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/f/faf90adf588cf95b8582b5cd917d6278cd0471ba.png)
> 
> ```
> dotProject is a web-based
> 
> ```
> 
> Project Management app designed to provide project layout and  
> control functions.
> 
> Project Management
> 
> ```
> dotProject
> 
> ```
> 
> ![Joomla! icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/b/b060f024d34a0a06e0e607c90c81d59ad8b0b40f.png)
> 
> ```
> Joomla is an award-winning CMS
> 
> ```
> 
> which enables you to build Web sites and powerful online  
> applications.
> 
> CMS
> 
> ```
> Joomla!
> 
> ```
> 
> ![Open Web Analytics icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/7/7457e8ec41cbef6b7c3ec1e0dbf86154891a3e92.png)
> 
> ```
> Open Web Analytics (OWA) is
> 
> ```
> 
> open source web analytics software that you can use to track  
> and analyze your web sites.
> 
> Statistics, Analytics
> 
> ```
> Open Web Analytics
> 
> ```
> 
> ```
> OpenVBX is a web-based, open
> 
> ```
> 
> source phone system for business.
> 
> Telephony
> 
> ```
> OpenVBX
> 
> ```
> 
> ![phpBB icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/d/d035bfb1942ce4d5862e628f5361dcb3d62e3f49.png)
> 
> ```
> phpBB allows users to create
> 
> ```
> 
> bulletin boards on their site where members can express their  
> hearts out.
> 
> Forum
> 
> ```
> phpBB
> 
> ```
> 
> ![Piwigo icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/8/878e048cc4ba0748acd1e12136bdc534027886b8.png)
> 
> ```
> Piwigo is an open source photo
> 
> ```
> 
> gallery, customize it with themes and plugins.
> 
> Gallery
> 
> ```
> Piwigo
> 
> ```
> 
> ![WebCalendar icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/3/3b43b27899d7b70e18675997c7555beb838e8513.png)
> 
> ```
> WebCalendar is a
> 
> ```
> 
> highly-customizable and easy-to-use web calendar.
> 
> Other
> 
> ```
> WebCalendar
> 
> ```
> 
> ![Zen Cart icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/8/86cc43a1b0aa3c12b9326baadd06edb5029246d5.png)
> 
> ```
> Zen Cart is an open-source
> 
> ```
> 
> shopping cart system.
> 
> E-Commerce
> 
> ```
> Zen Cart
> 
> ```
> 
> > ```
> > Best to all,
> > 
> > Dag
> > 
> > ```
> > 
> > > ```
> > > [From Rupert Young
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > (2017.08.29  
> > > 14.00)]
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > (Dag Forssell (2017.08.27 15:25 PDT)]
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > The way I see it, we don't need more people to help
> > > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > 
> > > > out.
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > Well, it would be useful if someone performed the installation
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > of MyBB  
> > > whereever it is going to be. Also if someone had a look at the  
> > > plugins to  
> > > see which ones would be useful for us.
> > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > Well, Martin Taylor
> > > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > 
> > > > for ECACS,  
> > > > of course.
> > > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > If my assumptions/interpretation that I spelled out and
> > > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > 
> > > > implemented  
> > > > yesterday make sense, most importantly to Rupert, but also to  
> > > > the board  
> > > > and others, all I need do is to provide Rupert with FTP access  
> > > > to the two  
> > > > folders at [iapct.org](http://iapct.org) – CSGnet and Forum. (Rupert can share  
> > > > with others  
> > > > as he sees fit).
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > I'll need command line access to the server and database access
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > through  
> > > phpmyadmin.
> > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > Perhaps Rupert can transfer the subscriber list. But I think
> > > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > 
> > > > it will be a  
> > > > good idea for me to email all CSGnet subscribers. A good  
> > > > number of  
> > > > addresses will bounce, saying there is no such address.
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > Â I'm hoping that I can set up users as part of the migration.
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > However, it seems
> > > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > 
> > > > to me that  
> > > > setting up IAPCTnet is primary. It can and should be done  
> > > > rather  
> > > > immediately. Sorting out the existing archive and populating  
> > > > the forum  
> > > > with the result is a secondary effort that likely will take  
> > > > Rupert some  
> > > > time.
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > If you mean a new domain then yes. Presumably this is one which
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > is owned  
> > > by CSG.
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > The initiation of the forum itself is probably best left until I
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > have  
> > > verified the migration process as I wouldn’t want to do it in a  
> > > live  
> > > environment.
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > Rupert
> > > 
> > > ```

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![DagArchive](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@DagArchive](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/DagArchive)\
**Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/successor-to-csg-net/10892/26 "2017-08-29T19:40:22Z")

</div>

[Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 12:30 PDT)]

Martin, I find it a tad hard to follow your story. What is your site? Who  
owns and handles what? The hosting service? I see that Dreamhost is yet  
another hosting company (there are many these days) but I don’t see their  
pricing. They appear geared to handle everything for you.

Inspired by your list of functions (not familiar with them), your post  
suggests to me: With a dedicated IAPCT account, opportunities open  
up. Still using the same domain, WordPress can be installed in  
another folder (separate from MyBB). Karin did just that for our  
anniversary 3 1/2 years ago:  
[  
http://www.forssell.com/](http://www.forssell.com/), specifically  
[  
http://www.forssell.com/golden/](http://www.forssell.com/golden/). That is one folder only. The rest of  
the site is plain, template based Dreamweaver (as are most of my sites).

I already showed you WordPress at  
[  
www.howwefunction.com](http://www.howwefunction.com/). That is installed at the root of the site.

WordPress started its life as blog software, but added website building  
and is now dominant. It is the most user-friendly in its class as I  
understand it.

Obviously, IAPCT (the non-profit, not the site) can purchase additional  
domain names and host them at the same system. A domain runs around $10  
per year.

Best, Dag

> [Martin Taylor  
> 2017.08.29.14.36]

> **···**
>
> > In view of that, I am posting  
> > publicly a message I sent to Dag and Rupert, with minor edits.
> > 
> > * * *
> > 
> > If there’s any problem with Dag’s site, I have an unlimited number of  
> > domains and of storage space on Dreamhost, which has quite a lot of  
> > facilities. A couple of my domains are administered by someone else with  
> > full shell access. Following is a list of their “one-click  
> > installs”. Maybe the IAPCT would like a PCT Wiki, or Zencart for  
> > fees, etc? Rupert might like phpBB. A domain is not free, but the cost is  
> > about $15/yr , plus $36/yr if you want them to keep the site clean of  
> > malware, and the “one-click installs” are free as far as I know  
> > (I do have a MediaWiki, but I haven’t looked at it for a long time. I  
> > might have installed it myself, because these one-click installs are  
> > mostly newer than my Dreamhost membership).
> > 
> > Of course, if you like the Dreamhost facilities, I don’t have to host the  
> > domain. IAPCT could own it and register it, with Rupert and others to  
> > administer it.
> > 
> > Just a thought.�
> > 
> > Martin
> > 
> > ![MediaWiki icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/c/cf774d696d5028548fa57d4f3fa7db603590d847.png)
> > 
> > MediaWiki, the software behind Wikipedia, is free collaborative  
> > software.
> > 
> > Wiki, Featured
> > 
> > MediaWiki
> > 
> > ![WordPress icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/1/1d6de28c1a04ac7279263e285751dfa051675cee.png)
> > 
> > WordPress is a free web-based software you can use to create a website or  
> > blog.
> > 
> > Blog, CMS,  
> > Featured
> > 
> > WordPress
> > 
> > ![concrete5 icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/6/622c86e33e28f01f27fabffc46d7192c79c5e13e.png)
> > 
> > concrete5 is a website building tool that is simple for site owners to  
> > use, and powerful for site developers to work with.
> > 
> > CMS, Forum
> > 
> > concrete5
> > 
> > ![dotProject icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/f/faf90adf588cf95b8582b5cd917d6278cd0471ba.png)
> > 
> > dotProject is a web-based Project Management app designed to provide  
> > project layout and control functions.
> > 
> > Project Management
> > 
> > dotProject
> > 
> > ![Joomla! icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/b/b060f024d34a0a06e0e607c90c81d59ad8b0b40f.png)
> > 
> > Joomla is an award-winning CMS which enables you to build Web sites and  
> > powerful online applications.
> > 
> > CMS
> > 
> > Joomla!
> > 
> > ![Open Web Analytics icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/7/7457e8ec41cbef6b7c3ec1e0dbf86154891a3e92.png)
> > 
> > Open Web Analytics (OWA) is open source web analytics software that you  
> > can use to track and analyze your web sites.
> > 
> > Statistics, Analytics
> > 
> > Open Web Analytics
> > 
> > OpenVBX is a web-based, open source phone system for business.
> > 
> > Telephony
> > 
> > OpenVBX
> > 
> > ![phpBB icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/d/d035bfb1942ce4d5862e628f5361dcb3d62e3f49.png)
> > 
> > phpBB allows users to create bulletin boards on their site where members  
> > can express their hearts out.
> > 
> > Forum
> > 
> > phpBB
> > 
> > ![Piwigo icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/8/878e048cc4ba0748acd1e12136bdc534027886b8.png)
> > 
> > Piwigo is an open source photo gallery, customize it with themes and  
> > plugins.
> > 
> > Gallery
> > 
> > Piwigo
> > 
> > ![WebCalendar icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/3/3b43b27899d7b70e18675997c7555beb838e8513.png)
> > 
> > WebCalendar is a highly-customizable and easy-to-use web calendar.
> > 
> > Other
> > 
> > WebCalendar
> > 
> > ![Zen Cart icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/8/86cc43a1b0aa3c12b9326baadd06edb5029246d5.png)
> > 
> > Zen Cart is an open-source shopping cart system.
> > 
> > E-Commerce
> > 
> > Zen Cart

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![MartinT](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/ee7513/32.png) [@MartinT](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/MartinT)\
**Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 8:52pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/successor-to-csg-net/10892/27 "2017-08-29T20:52:53Z")

</div>

[Martin Taylor 2017.08.29.16.29]

> ```
> [Dag
> 
> ```
> 
> Forssell (2017.08.29 12:30 PDT)]
> 
> ```
> Martin, I find it a tad hard to follow your story. What is your
> 
> ```
> 
> site?

```
I have several, including mmtaylor.net and ecacs.net (now unused,

```

but still valid).

> ```
> Who
> 
> ```
> 
> owns and handles what?

```
I handle most of them. I gave administrative privileges to others

```

for three that were related to the NATO group to which I belonged  
until recently, but I don’t think they use them any more. Again,  
they were paid 10 years in advance.

> ```
> The hosting service? I see that Dreamhost is yet
> 
> ```
> 
> another hosting company (there are many these days) but I don’t  
> see their  
> pricing. They appear geared to handle everything for you.

```
The reason I went to Dreamhost from my earlier hosting company was

```

that I got full shell access to a virtual machine (and could pay for  
a real machine if I wanted) at a very low cost. The flexibility  
mattered to me. Once upon a time I used to be quite handy with Unix,  
so that was important to me. I hardly had Dreamhost handle anything.  
But I haven’t really initiated anything for quite a few years. Now  
they offer these “one-click installs” if you want to use them. The  
advantage to that is that Dreamhost semi-automatically keeps them  
updated with security fixes, whereas if you roll your own from  
source code or install something else from github or somewhere, you  
have to keep an eye out for the necessary fixes. I’m not sure  
whether I would use a one-click install now, if I were starting  
again, but I could if I wanted. Also, they have been very reliable,  
and helpful (years ago) when I had problems. Also again, I have  
unlimited storage, though they don’t like you using your space for  
your personal archives. The have a cloud service for that, if I  
remember correctly.

> ```
> Inspired by your list of functions (not familiar with them), your
> 
> ```
> 
> post  
> suggests to me: With a dedicated IAPCT account, opportunities  
> open  
> up. Still using the same domain, WordPress can be installed in  
> another folder (separate from MyBB).

```
Sure. I have several such separate areas on mmtaylor.net, and on

```

some other domains I have subdomains. Very easy to set up.

> …
> 
> ```
> I already showed you WordPress at
> 
> ```
> 
> [  
> www.howwefunction.com](http://www.howwefunction.com/) . That is installed at the root of the  
> site.
> 
> ```
> WordPress started its life as blog software, but added website
> 
> ```
> 
> building  
> and is now dominant. It is the most user-friendly in its class as  
> I  
> understand it.

```
Rupert said he didn't want it, which is why I suggested phpBB. But

```

any other Forum software would be fine. It just wouldn’t be a  
one-click install. You would have to install it in the way you would  
do on a machine of its own. I wouldn’t install anything at the root  
of the site, if I were doing it (and I am definitely not  
volunteering).

> ```
> Obviously, IAPCT (the non-profit, not the site) can purchase
> 
> ```
> 
> additional  
> domain names and host them at the same system. A domain runs  
> around $10  
> per year.

```
I'm surprised they don't have a price list. My last year's account

```

shows one domain continued at $14.95 and another at $13.95. I don’t  
know why the difference. Its the anti-malware service that costs  
money, at $3/month per domain.

```
Anyway, I have no brief for Dreamhost other than as a satisfied

```

customer who wanted maximum flexibility, the ability to use everyday  
compiler languages and third party software, no worries about disk  
usage, and regular stats on one’s sites. IAPCT and its volunteer  
administrators may have different requirements. I just offer the  
suggestion, now with a few more reasons why I chose Dreamhost. I  
confess that I have felt no need to look elsewhere, so I have no  
idea whether better deals or facilities can be found.

```
Martin

```

> **···**
>
> > ```
> > Best, Dag
> > 
> > ```
> > 
> > > ```
> > > [Martin Taylor
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > 2017.08.29.14.36]
> > 
> > ```
> > <snip>
> > 
> > ```
> > 
> > > ```
> > > In view of that, I am
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > posting  
> > > publicly a message I sent to Dag and Rupert, with minor edits.
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > --------
> > > 
> > > If there's any problem with Dag's site, I have an unlimited
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > number of  
> > > domains and of storage space on Dreamhost, which has quite a lot  
> > > of  
> > > facilities. A couple of my domains are administered by someone  
> > > else with  
> > > full shell access. Following is a list of their “one-click  
> > > installs”. Maybe the IAPCT would like a PCT Wiki, or Zencart for  
> > > fees, etc? Rupert might like phpBB. A domain is not free, but  
> > > the cost is  
> > > about $15/yr , plus $36/yr if you want them to keep the site  
> > > clean of  
> > > malware, and the “one-click installs” are free as far as I know  
> > > (I do have a MediaWiki, but I haven’t looked at it for a long  
> > > time. I  
> > > might have installed it myself, because these one-click installs  
> > > are  
> > > mostly newer than my Dreamhost membership).
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > Of course, if you like the Dreamhost facilities, I don't have to
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > host the  
> > > domain. IAPCT could own it and register it, with Rupert and  
> > > others to  
> > > administer it.
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > Just a thought.Â
> > > 
> > > Martin
> > > 
> > > <img src="https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/535_icon.png" alt="MediaWiki icon" moz-do-not-send="true" width="72" height="68">
> > > 
> > > MediaWiki, the software behind Wikipedia, is free collaborative
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > software.
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > Wiki, Featured
> > > 
> > > MediaWiki
> > > 
> > > <img src="https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/655_icon.png" alt="WordPress icon" moz-do-not-send="true" width="60" height="72">
> > > 
> > > WordPress is a free web-based software you can use to create a
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > website or  
> > > blog.
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > Blog, CMS ,
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > Featured
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > WordPress
> > > 
> > > <img src="https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/553_icon.png" alt="concrete5 icon" moz-do-not-send="true" width="72" height="72">
> > > 
> > > concrete5 is a website building tool that is simple for site
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > owners to  
> > > use, and powerful for site developers to work with.
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > CMS, Forum
> > > 
> > > concrete5
> > > 
> > > <img src="https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/522_icon.png" alt="dotProject icon" moz-do-not-send="true" width="72" height="72">
> > > 
> > > dotProject is a web-based Project Management app designed to
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > provide  
> > > project layout and control functions.
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > Project Management
> > > 
> > > dotProject
> > > 
> > > <img src="https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/534_icon.png" alt="Joomla! icon" moz-do-not-send="true" width="72" height="68">
> > > 
> > > Joomla is an award-winning CMS which enables you to build Web
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > sites and  
> > > powerful online applications.
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > CMS
> > > 
> > > Joomla!
> > > 
> > > <img src="https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/560_icon.png" alt="Open Web Analytics icon" moz-do-not-send="true" width="72" height="72">
> > > 
> > > Open Web Analytics (OWA) is open source web analytics software
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > that you  
> > > can use to track and analyze your web sites.
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > Statistics, Analytics
> > > 
> > > Open Web Analytics
> > > 
> > > <img src="http://bearweb.ca/apps/277_icon.png" alt="OpenVBX
> > > icon" moz-do-not-send="true" width="72" height="72">
> > > 
> > > OpenVBX is a web-based, open source phone system for business.
> > > 
> > > Telephony
> > > 
> > > OpenVBX
> > > 
> > > <img src="https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/593_icon.png" alt="phpBB icon" moz-do-not-send="true" width="72" height="72">
> > > 
> > > phpBB allows users to create bulletin boards on their site where
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > members  
> > > can express their hearts out.
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > Forum
> > > 
> > > phpBB
> > > 
> > > <img src="https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/597_icon.png" alt="Piwigo icon" moz-do-not-send="true" width="72" height="72">
> > > 
> > > Piwigo is an open source photo gallery, customize it with themes
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > and  
> > > plugins.
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > Gallery
> > > 
> > > Piwigo
> > > 
> > > <img src="https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/458_icon.png" alt="WebCalendar icon" moz-do-not-send="true" width="72" height="72">
> > > 
> > > WebCalendar is a highly-customizable and easy-to-use web
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > calendar.
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > Other
> > > 
> > > WebCalendar
> > > 
> > > <img src="https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/160_icon.png" alt="Zen Cart icon" moz-do-not-send="true" width="72" height="72">
> > > 
> > > Zen Cart is an open-source shopping cart system.
> > > 
> > > E-Commerce
> > > 
> > > Zen Cart
> > > 
> > > ```

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![DagArchive](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@DagArchive](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/DagArchive)\
**Post date:** [August 29, 2017, 10:42pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/successor-to-csg-net/10892/28 "2017-08-29T22:42:53Z")

</div>

[Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 15:40 PDT)]

Martin,

Thanks for these clarifications. I have explained what my experience has  
been and the costs associated with an account at PowWeb (The only host I  
have experience with). You have spelled out lots more about what may be  
available under your umbrella (given your domain names).

You may have misunderstood what I meant by bringing up WordPress. Rupert  
said he did not want the WordPress forum plugin called bbPress because  
the forum would be squished. I understand now and fully agree. That is  
not to say that WordPress as a blog and web page program will not or  
should not be considered. A WordPress blog can coexist with Rupert’s  
preferred MyBB in another folder at  
[www.iapct.org](http://www.iapct.org/). You  
mentioned PCT Wiki (using MediaWiki?). While Bruce N. has updating the  
public Wiki on his agenda, I thought of the possibility of adding a blog.

Time to stand by so Rupert, Bruce N, Rick and others can weigh in. BTW, I  
wanted to mention Henry Yin as another young, committed PCTer. Those of  
us who have been around for 30 or 40 (Dick Robertson \> 50) years will  
end up passing the baton one of these days whether we want to or not.

Best, Dag

> **···**
>
> > [Martin Taylor  
> > 2017.08.29.16.29]
> > 
> > > [Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 12:30  
> > > PDT)]
> > > 
> > > Martin, I find it a tad hard to follow your story. What is your site?
> > 
> > I have several, including [mmtaylor.net](http://mmtaylor.net) and [ecacs.net](http://ecacs.net) (now unused, but  
> > still valid).
> > 
> > > Who owns and handles  
> > > what?
> > 
> > I handle most of them. I gave administrative privileges to others for  
> > three that were related to the NATO group to which I belonged until  
> > recently, but I don’t think they use them any more. Again, they were paid  
> > 10 years in advance.
> > 
> > > The hosting service? I see that  
> > > Dreamhost is yet another hosting company (there are many these days) but  
> > > I don’t see their pricing. They appear geared to handle everything for  
> > > you.
> > 
> > The reason I went to Dreamhost from my earlier hosting company was that I  
> > got full shell access to a virtual machine (and could pay for a real  
> > machine if I wanted) at a very low cost. The flexibility mattered to me.  
> > Once upon a time I used to be quite handy with Unix, so that was  
> > important to me. I hardly had Dreamhost handle anything. But I haven’t  
> > really initiated anything for quite a few years. Now they offer these  
> > “one-click installs” if you want to use them. The advantage to  
> > that is that Dreamhost semi-automatically keeps them updated with  
> > security fixes, whereas if you roll your own from source code or install  
> > something else from github or somewhere, you have to keep an eye out for  
> > the necessary fixes. I’m not sure whether I would use a one-click install  
> > now, if I were starting again, but I could if I wanted. Also, they have  
> > been very reliable, and helpful (years ago) when I had problems. Also  
> > again, I have unlimited storage, though they don’t like you using your  
> > space for your personal archives. The have a cloud service for that, if I  
> > remember correctly.
> > 
> > > Inspired by your list of functions (not familiar with them), your post  
> > > suggests to me:� With a dedicated IAPCT account, opportunities open  
> > > up.� Still using the same domain, WordPress can be installed in  
> > > another folder (separate from MyBB).
> > 
> > Sure. I have several such separate areas on [mmtaylor.net](http://mmtaylor.net), and on some  
> > other domains I have subdomains. Very easy to set up.
> > 
> > > …
> > > 
> > > I already showed you WordPress at  
> > > [  
> > > www.howwefunction.com](http://www.howwefunction.com/). That is installed at the root of the site.
> > > 
> > > WordPress started its life as blog software, but added website building  
> > > and is now dominant. It is the most user-friendly in its class as I  
> > > understand it.
> > 
> > Rupert said he didn’t want it, which is why I suggested phpBB. But any  
> > other Forum software would be fine. It just wouldn’t be a one-click  
> > install. You would have to install it in the way you would do on a  
> > machine of its own. I wouldn’t install anything at the root of the site,  
> > if I were doing it (and I am definitely not volunteering).
> > 
> > > Obviously, IAPCT (the non-profit, not the site) can purchase additional  
> > > domain names and host them at the same system. A domain runs around $10  
> > > per year.
> > 
> > I’m surprised they don’t have a price list. My last year’s account shows  
> > one domain continued at $14.95 and another at $13.95. I don’t know why  
> > the difference. Its the anti-malware service that costs money, at  
> > $3/month per domain.
> > 
> > Anyway, I have no brief for Dreamhost other than as a satisfied customer  
> > who wanted maximum flexibility, the ability to use everyday compiler  
> > languages and third party software, no worries about disk usage, and  
> > regular stats on one’s sites. IAPCT and its volunteer administrators may  
> > have different requirements. I just offer the suggestion, now with a few  
> > more reasons why I chose Dreamhost. I confess that I have felt no need to  
> > look elsewhere, so I have no idea whether better deals or facilities can  
> > be found.
> > 
> > Martin
> > 
> > > Best, Dag
> > > 
> > > > [Martin Taylor  
> > > > 2017.08.29.14.36]
> > > 
> > > > In view of that, I am posting  
> > > > publicly a message I sent to Dag and Rupert, with minor edits.
> > > > 
> > > > * * *
> > > > 
> > > > If there’s any problem with Dag’s site, I have an unlimited number of  
> > > > domains and of storage space on Dreamhost, which has quite a lot of  
> > > > facilities. A couple of my domains are administered by someone else with  
> > > > full shell access. Following is a list of their “one-click  
> > > > installs”. Maybe the IAPCT would like a PCT Wiki, or Zencart for  
> > > > fees, etc? Rupert might like phpBB. A domain is not free, but the cost is  
> > > > about $15/yr , plus $36/yr if you want them to keep the site clean of  
> > > > malware, and the “one-click installs” are free as far as I know  
> > > > (I do have a MediaWiki, but I haven’t looked at it for a long time. I  
> > > > might have installed it myself, because these one-click installs are  
> > > > mostly newer than my Dreamhost membership).
> > > > 
> > > > Of course, if you like the Dreamhost facilities, I don’t have to host the  
> > > > domain. IAPCT could own it and register it, with Rupert and others to  
> > > > administer it.
> > > > 
> > > > Just a thought.Â
> > > > 
> > > > Martin
> > > > 
> > > > ![MediaWiki icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/c/cf774d696d5028548fa57d4f3fa7db603590d847.png)
> > > > 
> > > > MediaWiki, the software behind Wikipedia, is free collaborative  
> > > > software.
> > > > 
> > > > Wiki, Featured
> > > > 
> > > > MediaWiki
> > > > 
> > > > ![WordPress icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/1/1d6de28c1a04ac7279263e285751dfa051675cee.png)
> > > > 
> > > > WordPress is a free web-based software you can use to create a website or  
> > > > blog.
> > > > 
> > > > Blog, CMS,  
> > > > Featured
> > > > 
> > > > WordPress
> > > > 
> > > > ![concrete5 icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/6/622c86e33e28f01f27fabffc46d7192c79c5e13e.png)
> > > > 
> > > > concrete5 is a website building tool that is simple for site owners to  
> > > > use, and powerful for site developers to work with.
> > > > 
> > > > CMS, Forum
> > > > 
> > > > concrete5
> > > > 
> > > > ![dotProject icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/f/faf90adf588cf95b8582b5cd917d6278cd0471ba.png)
> > > > 
> > > > dotProject is a web-based Project Management app designed to provide  
> > > > project layout and control functions.
> > > > 
> > > > Project Management
> > > > 
> > > > dotProject
> > > > 
> > > > ![Joomla! icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/b/b060f024d34a0a06e0e607c90c81d59ad8b0b40f.png)
> > > > 
> > > > Joomla is an award-winning CMS which enables you to build Web sites and  
> > > > powerful online applications.
> > > > 
> > > > CMS
> > > > 
> > > > Joomla!
> > > > 
> > > > ![Open Web Analytics icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/7/7457e8ec41cbef6b7c3ec1e0dbf86154891a3e92.png)
> > > > 
> > > > Open Web Analytics (OWA) is open source web analytics software that you  
> > > > can use to track and analyze your web sites.
> > > > 
> > > > Statistics, Analytics
> > > > 
> > > > Open Web Analytics
> > > > 
> > > > OpenVBX is a web-based, open source phone system for business.
> > > > 
> > > > Telephony
> > > > 
> > > > OpenVBX
> > > > 
> > > > ![phpBB icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/d/d035bfb1942ce4d5862e628f5361dcb3d62e3f49.png)
> > > > 
> > > > phpBB allows users to create bulletin boards on their site where members  
> > > > can express their hearts out.
> > > > 
> > > > Forum
> > > > 
> > > > phpBB
> > > > 
> > > > ![Piwigo icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/8/878e048cc4ba0748acd1e12136bdc534027886b8.png)
> > > > 
> > > > Piwigo is an open source photo gallery, customize it with themes and  
> > > > plugins.
> > > > 
> > > > Gallery
> > > > 
> > > > Piwigo
> > > > 
> > > > ![WebCalendar icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/3/3b43b27899d7b70e18675997c7555beb838e8513.png)
> > > > 
> > > > WebCalendar is a highly-customizable and easy-to-use web calendar.
> > > > 
> > > > Other
> > > > 
> > > > WebCalendar
> > > > 
> > > > ![Zen Cart icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/8/86cc43a1b0aa3c12b9326baadd06edb5029246d5.png)
> > > > 
> > > > Zen Cart is an open-source shopping cart system.
> > > > 
> > > > E-Commerce
> > > > 
> > > > Zen  
> > > > Cart

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/user_avatar/discourse.iapct.org/bnhpct/32/34_2.png) [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\
**Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 2:08pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/successor-to-csg-net/10892/29 "2017-08-30T14:08:35Z")

</div>

[From Bruce Nevin (2017.08.30.09:45 ET)]

Rick Marken (2017.08.29.0915) –

> RM: Anyway, the permanence and continuity of the forum would seem to be an important consideration. By the way, I still like the current, good old fashioned CSGNet the best. The main problem with it, from my perspective, is maintaining continuity of management.

> A major problem with the present CSGnet is that university support very easily turns to arbitrary and summary rejection. A university IT department under a Dean’s budgetary strictures has no reason to be sympathetic to or supportive of an organization that has no connection to campus activities or curricula. I help manage the website that is now [zelligharris.org](http://zelligharris.org). Over the years, it has been twice evicted, first from Columbia and later from the University of Pennsylvania. I was fortunate to be able to retain a snapshot each time. It now has a secure home under Dag’s umbrella. IMO we cannot be assured of continuity of management at IU (meaning by ‘management’ hardware and software support for the platform). Dag, and his daughter Karen, offer us that continuity.

A second significant problem, invisible to us because we do not experience the other term of the comparison, is that CSGnet does not use or make available to us the more advanced capabilities of the software (assuming the version of listserv that we have at IU is the same software).

> > A new hosting account, exclusive for IAPCT, paid for by IAPCT, would be my suggestion.

I strongly agree, and I propose that we budget the $60/year cost as a regular IAPCT expense.

I recommend that the domain name [iapct.org](http://iapct.org) be reassigned to the new web host. The web page has the appearance of a memorial to Bill. Worthy though that is, and it should remain an important part of the website, over time the website should be about PCT and about the organization IAPCT. The [list of desiderata](https://docs.google.com/document/d/13NAF2k-1jEQLELM79FQZXbqhuTOw68braT4ldRTNgSc/edit?usp=sharing) for getting the organization on its feet and for advancing PCT (subject to amendment, refinement, and extension) suggests ways of reorganizing the website over time.

> **···**
>
> On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 2:01 PM, Dag Forssell [csgarchive@pctresources.com](mailto:csgarchive@pctresources.com) wrote:
> 
> > > I’ll need command line access to  
> > > the server and database access through phpmyadmin.  
> > > [Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 10:30 PDT)]  
> > > So far no reply to my post last midnight, but this post from Rupert holds  
> > > a key sentence that makes a difference:  
> > > I have looked into that by searching help at  
> > > [www.powweb.com](http://www.powweb.com/). It  
> > > becomes clear to me that Rupert does in fact need to log in to the  
> > > server. Logging in to the folder where MyBB is installed is not enough.  
> > > We need another approach. Either for Rupert to host [iapct.org](http://iapct.org) in  
> > > his system if it is similar to mine, or for a new hosting account.  
> > > A new hosting account, exclusive for IAPCT, paid for by IAPCT, would be  
> > > my suggestion.  
> > > Here is where we / I stand:  
> > > The domain name [iapct.org](http://iapct.org) is held by a separate account at  
> > > [www.GoDaddy.com](http://www.godaddy.com/).  
> > > It is paid up through July 2021. When it is time to renew, I  
> > > suggest a move to  
> > > [www.namecheap.com](http://www.namecheap.com/)  
> > > because GoDaddy has become expensive. Because I created an account  
> > > separate from my other domains at GoDaddy, it is easy to just hand over  
> > > the login info to a new webmaster, such as Rupert. Rupert and the board  
> > > get to agree on a hosting company. When set up, Rupert can transfer  
> > > [iapct.org](http://iapct.org) to the new hosting.  
> > > In the overall scheme of things, I think this will be a good move. I will  
> > > be happy to hand over the reins to a younger, committed PCTer. With a  
> > > stand-alone registration and hosting, Rupert can have other young,  
> > > dedicated PCTers as backup or active collaborators. Adam Matic comes to  
> > > my mind, but Rupert may know others. I will be happy to support the  
> > > operation if Rupert wants me to.  
> > > The key move here is to divorce [iapct.org](http://iapct.org) from my system.  
> > > My hosting at  
> > > [www.PowWeb.com](http://www.powweb.com/) is  
> > > “unlimited” but in practice, becase of an error on their part,  
> > > I was notified about a year ago that they frown on accounts exceeding 25  
> > > GB and especially accounts that stream movies. For movies, use YouTube or  
> > > such. The eleven sites at my account hold some 5.5 GB.  
> > > [www.powweb.com](http://www.powweb.com/)  
> > > advertises a low price to start, but show a regular price of 11.95 per  
> > > month. When in October 2016 PowWeb wanted $143 from me, I protested and  
> > > mentioned another host, 1&1. They suggested “The One Plan”  
> > > and I paid $178.20 for three years. That is just under $60 per year, or  
> > > $5 per month. I have been very happy with their performance and support  
> > > over the years. Checking out  
> > > [  
> > > http://www.powweb.com/powweb/hosting.bml](http://www.powweb.com/powweb/hosting.bml) and scrolling down to the  
> > > bottom, I see 3 years(\_\__65% OFF!_ ) $3.88/month\* \_\_$139.68.
> > 
> > When after three years they raise the rate, you contact them, protest,  
> > mention 1&1 or some such, and continue with “The One Plan”.
> > 
> > To me, a new hosting account that IAPCT takes charge of will provide the  
> > permanence that Rick just mentioned in his post.
> > 
> > Best to all,
> > 
> > Dag
> > 
> > > > The way I see it, we don’t need more people to help  
> > > > out.  
> > > > Well, Martin Taylor for ECACS,  
> > > > of course.
> > > > 
> > > > If my assumptions/interpretation that I spelled out and implemented  
> > > > yesterday make sense, most importantly to Rupert, but also to the board  
> > > > and others, all I need do is to provide Rupert with FTP access to the two  
> > > > folders at [iapct.org](http://iapct.org) – CSGnet and Forum. (Rupert can share with others  
> > > > as he sees fit).
> > > > 
> > > > Perhaps Rupert can transfer the subscriber list. But I think it will be a  
> > > > good idea for me to email all CSGnet subscribers. A good number of  
> > > > addresses will bounce, saying there is no such address.  
> > > > However, it seems to me that  
> > > > setting up IAPCTnet is primary. It can and should be done rather  
> > > > immediately. Sorting out the existing archive and populating the forum  
> > > > with the result is a secondary effort that likely will take Rupert some  
> > > > time.  
> > > > [From Rupert Young (2017.08.29  
> > > > 14.00)]
> > > 
> > > (Dag Forssell (2017.08.27 15:25 PDT)]
> > > 
> > > Well, it would be useful if someone performed the installation of MyBB  
> > > whereever it is going to be. Also if someone had a look at the plugins to  
> > > see which ones would be useful for us.
> > > 
> > > I’ll need command line access to the server and database access through  
> > > phpmyadmin.
> > > 
> > > Â I’m hoping that I can set up users as part of the migration.
> > > 
> > > If you mean a new domain then yes. Presumably this is one which is owned  
> > > by CSG.
> > > 
> > > The initiation of the forum itself is probably best left until I have  
> > > verified the migration process as I wouldn’t want to do it in a live  
> > > environment.
> > > 
> > > Rupert

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![rsmarken](http://discourse.iapct.org/user_avatar/discourse.iapct.org/rsmarken/32/3553_2.png) [@rsmarken](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/rsmarken)\
**Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 5:10pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/successor-to-csg-net/10892/30 "2017-08-30T17:10:56Z")

</div>

[From Rick Marken (2017.08.30.1010)]

> **···**
>
> > Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 15:40 PDT)
> > 
> > DF: Time to stand by so Rupert, Bruce N, Rick and others can weigh in. BTW, I  
> > wanted to mention Henry Yin as another young, committed PCTer. Those of  
> > us who have been around for 30 or 40 (Dick Robertson \> 50) years will  
> > end up passing the baton one of these days whether we want to or not.
> 
> RM: I enthusiastically agree with this. The future success (and value) of CSGNet (or whatever it’s eventually called) depends on getting quality young scientists to participate, regardless of what platform CSGNet is eventually moved to. Henry Yin is certainly one such scientist and Heather Bell is another. I don’t believe either are on CSGNet now but I hope they can be encouraged to participate in what will hopefully be the new, improved CSGNet when it moves to a new platform. (I’m copying this to Henry and Heather in the hopes that they might be willing to contribute to this conversation by volunteering what might encourage them to participate in a newly constituted CSGNet.) I think it will take more than just a new platform to attract young scientists to CSGNet. I think it has to be clear that CSGNet is a forum for high quality scientific discussion of PCT. This may mean that it will have to be moderated.Â
> 
> RM: Anyway, stuff to think about.Â
> 
> BestÂ
> 
> Rick
> 
> –  
> Richard S. MarkenÂ
> 
> "Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you  
> have nothing left to take away.�  
> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![rupert](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/f14d63/32.png) [@rupert](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/rupert)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 7:53am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/successor-to-csg-net/10892/31 "2017-09-01T07:53:26Z")

</div>

Reposting

> **···**
>
> On 29/08/2017 23:42, Dag Forssell  
> wrote:
> 
> > [Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 15:40 PDT)]
> > 
> > ```
> > Martin,
> > 
> > Thanks for these clarifications. I have explained what my
> > 
> > ```
> > 
> > experience has  
> > been and the costs associated with an account at PowWeb (The only  
> > host I  
> > have experience with). You have spelled out lots more about what  
> > may be  
> > available under your umbrella (given your domain names).
> > 
> > ```
> > You may have misunderstood what I meant by bringing up WordPress.
> > 
> > ```
> > 
> > Rupert  
> > said he did not want the WordPress forum plugin called bbPress  
> > because  
> > the forum would be squished. I understand now and fully agree.  
> > That is  
> > not to say that WordPress as a blog and web page program will not  
> > or  
> > should not be considered. A WordPress blog can coexist with  
> > Rupert’s  
> > preferred MyBB in another folder at  
> > [www.iapct.org](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.iapct.org_&d=DwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=cw8yQfMNzasHVWcfmthk3NxFKMiNXC-cuedKiteam-4&s=wK_aWnGQMTimyshH-r6ihCYMK2S0IweFCWoDrAa7Eqg&e=) . You  
> > mentioned PCT Wiki (using MediaWiki?). While Bruce N. has updating  
> > the  
> > public Wiki on his agenda, I thought of the possibility of adding  
> > a blog.
> > 
> > ```
> > Time to stand by so Rupert, Bruce N, Rick and others can weigh in.
> > 
> > ```
> > 
> > BTW, I  
> > wanted to mention Henry Yin as another young, committed PCTer.  
> > Those of  
> > us who have been around for 30 or 40 (Dick Robertson \> 50)  
> > years will  
> > end up passing the baton one of these days whether we want to or  
> > not.
> > 
> > ```
> > Best, Dag
> > 
> > ```
> > 
> > > ```
> > > [Martin Taylor
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > 2017.08.29.16.29]
> > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > [Dag Forssell
> > > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > 
> > > > (2017.08.29 12:30  
> > > > PDT)]
> > > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > Martin, I find it a tad hard to follow your story. What is
> > > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > 
> > > > your site?
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > I have several, including mmtaylor.net and ecacs.net (now
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > unused, but  
> > > still valid).
> > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > Who owns and
> > > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > 
> > > > handles  
> > > > what?
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > I handle most of them. I gave administrative privileges to
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > others for  
> > > three that were related to the NATO group to which I belonged  
> > > until  
> > > recently, but I don’t think they use them any more. Again, they  
> > > were paid  
> > > 10 years in advance.
> > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > The hosting
> > > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > 
> > > > service? I see that  
> > > > Dreamhost is yet another hosting company (there are many these  
> > > > days) but  
> > > > I don’t see their pricing. They appear geared to handle  
> > > > everything for  
> > > > you.
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > The reason I went to Dreamhost from my earlier hosting company
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > was that I  
> > > got full shell access to a virtual machine (and could pay for a  
> > > real  
> > > machine if I wanted) at a very low cost. The flexibility  
> > > mattered to me.  
> > > Once upon a time I used to be quite handy with Unix, so that was  
> > > important to me. I hardly had Dreamhost handle anything. But I  
> > > haven’t  
> > > really initiated anything for quite a few years. Now they offer  
> > > these  
> > > “one-click installs” if you want to use them. The advantage to  
> > > that is that Dreamhost semi-automatically keeps them updated  
> > > with  
> > > security fixes, whereas if you roll your own from source code or  
> > > install  
> > > something else from github or somewhere, you have to keep an eye  
> > > out for  
> > > the necessary fixes. I’m not sure whether I would use a  
> > > one-click install  
> > > now, if I were starting again, but I could if I wanted. Also,  
> > > they have  
> > > been very reliable, and helpful (years ago) when I had problems.  
> > > Also  
> > > again, I have unlimited storage, though they don’t like you  
> > > using your  
> > > space for your personal archives. The have a cloud service for  
> > > that, if I  
> > > remember correctly.
> > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > Inspired by your list of functions (not familiar with them),
> > > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > 
> > > > your post  
> > > > suggests to me:Â With a dedicated IAPCT account,  
> > > > opportunities open  
> > > > up. Still using the same domain, WordPress can be installed  
> > > > in  
> > > > another folder (separate from MyBB).
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > Sure. I have several such separate areas on mmtaylor.net, and on
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > some  
> > > other domains I have subdomains. Very easy to set up.
> > > 
> > > > …
> > > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > I already showed you WordPress at
> > > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > 
> > > > [  
> > > > www.howwefunction.com](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.howwefunction.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=cw8yQfMNzasHVWcfmthk3NxFKMiNXC-cuedKiteam-4&s=TbguP_wbvEKxHkfQn19Dqq3T6ynAlQ_byx-CryUxONM&e=) . That is installed at the root of  
> > > > the site.
> > > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > WordPress started its life as blog software, but added website
> > > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > 
> > > > building  
> > > > and is now dominant. It is the most user-friendly in its class  
> > > > as I  
> > > > understand it.
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > Rupert said he didn't want it, which is why I suggested phpBB.
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > But any  
> > > other Forum software would be fine. It just wouldn’t be a  
> > > one-click  
> > > install. You would have to install it in the way you would do on  
> > > a  
> > > machine of its own. I wouldn’t install anything at the root of  
> > > the site,  
> > > if I were doing it (and I am definitely not volunteering).
> > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > Obviously, IAPCT (the non-profit, not the site) can purchase
> > > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > 
> > > > additional  
> > > > domain names and host them at the same system. A domain runs  
> > > > around $10  
> > > > per year.
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > I'm surprised they don't have a price list. My last year's
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > account shows  
> > > one domain continued at $14.95 and another at $13.95. I don’t  
> > > know why  
> > > the difference. Its the anti-malware service that costs money,  
> > > at  
> > > $3/month per domain.
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > Anyway, I have no brief for Dreamhost other than as a satisfied
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > customer  
> > > who wanted maximum flexibility, the ability to use everyday  
> > > compiler  
> > > languages and third party software, no worries about disk usage,  
> > > and  
> > > regular stats on one’s sites. IAPCT and its volunteer  
> > > administrators may  
> > > have different requirements. I just offer the suggestion, now  
> > > with a few  
> > > more reasons why I chose Dreamhost. I confess that I have felt  
> > > no need to  
> > > look elsewhere, so I have no idea whether better deals or  
> > > facilities can  
> > > be found.
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > Martin
> > > 
> > > ```
> > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > Best, Dag
> > > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > [Martin Taylor
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > 
> > > > > 2017.08.29.14.36]
> > > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > <snip>
> > > > 
> > > > ```
> > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > In view of that,
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > 
> > > > > I am posting  
> > > > > publicly a message I sent to Dag and Rupert, with minor  
> > > > > edits.
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > --------
> > > > > 
> > > > > If there's any problem with Dag's site, I have an unlimited
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > 
> > > > > number of  
> > > > > domains and of storage space on Dreamhost, which has quite a  
> > > > > lot of  
> > > > > facilities. A couple of my domains are administered by  
> > > > > someone else with  
> > > > > full shell access. Following is a list of their “one-click  
> > > > > installs”. Maybe the IAPCT would like a PCT Wiki, or Zencart  
> > > > > for  
> > > > > fees, etc? Rupert might like phpBB. A domain is not free,  
> > > > > but the cost is  
> > > > > about $15/yr , plus $36/yr if you want them to keep the site  
> > > > > clean of  
> > > > > malware, and the “one-click installs” are free as far as I  
> > > > > know  
> > > > > (I do have a MediaWiki, but I haven’t looked at it for a  
> > > > > long time. I  
> > > > > might have installed it myself, because these one-click  
> > > > > installs are  
> > > > > mostly newer than my Dreamhost membership).
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > Of course, if you like the Dreamhost facilities, I don't
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > 
> > > > > have to host the  
> > > > > domain. IAPCT could own it and register it, with Rupert and  
> > > > > others to  
> > > > > administer it.
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > Just a thought.Â
> > > > > 
> > > > > Martin
> > > > > 
> > > > > ![MediaWiki icon](https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/535_icon.png)
> > > > >          
> > > > > 
> > > > > MediaWiki, the software behind Wikipedia, is free
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > 
> > > > > collaborative  
> > > > > software.
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > Wiki, Featured
> > > > > 
> > > > > MediaWiki
> > > > > 
> > > > > ![WordPress icon](https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/655_icon.png)
> > > > >          
> > > > > 
> > > > > WordPress is a free web-based software you can use to create
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > 
> > > > > a website or  
> > > > > blog.
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > Blog, CMS ,
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > 
> > > > > Featured
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > WordPress
> > > > > 
> > > > > ![concrete5 icon](https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/553_icon.png)
> > > > >          
> > > > > 
> > > > > concrete5 is a website building tool that is simple for site
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > 
> > > > > owners to  
> > > > > use, and powerful for site developers to work with.
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > CMS, Forum
> > > > > 
> > > > > concrete5
> > > > > 
> > > > > ![dotProject icon](https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/522_icon.png)
> > > > >          
> > > > > 
> > > > > dotProject is a web-based Project Management app designed to
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > 
> > > > > provide  
> > > > > project layout and control functions.
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > Project Management
> > > > > 
> > > > > dotProject
> > > > > 
> > > > > ![Joomla! icon](https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/534_icon.png)
> > > > >          
> > > > > 
> > > > > Joomla is an award-winning CMS which enables you to build
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > 
> > > > > Web sites and  
> > > > > powerful online applications.
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > CMS
> > > > > 
> > > > > Joomla!
> > > > > 
> > > > > ![Open Web Analytics icon](https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/560_icon.png)
> > > > >          
> > > > > 
> > > > > Open Web Analytics (OWA) is open source web analytics
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > 
> > > > > software that you  
> > > > > can use to track and analyze your web sites.
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > Statistics, Analytics
> > > > > 
> > > > > Open Web Analytics
> > > > > 
> > > > > ![OpenVBX icon](http://bearweb.ca/apps/277_icon.png) 
> > > > > 
> > > > > OpenVBX is a web-based, open source phone system for
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > 
> > > > > business.
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > Telephony
> > > > > 
> > > > > OpenVBX
> > > > > 
> > > > > ![phpBB icon](https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/593_icon.png)
> > > > >          
> > > > > 
> > > > > phpBB allows users to create bulletin boards on their site
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > 
> > > > > where members  
> > > > > can express their hearts out.
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > Forum
> > > > > 
> > > > > phpBB
> > > > > 
> > > > > ![Piwigo icon](https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/597_icon.png)
> > > > >          
> > > > > 
> > > > > Piwigo is an open source photo gallery, customize it with
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > 
> > > > > themes and  
> > > > > plugins.
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > Gallery
> > > > > 
> > > > > Piwigo
> > > > > 
> > > > > ![WebCalendar icon](https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/458_icon.png)
> > > > >          
> > > > > 
> > > > > WebCalendar is a highly-customizable and easy-to-use web
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > 
> > > > > calendar.
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > Other
> > > > > 
> > > > > WebCalendar
> > > > > 
> > > > > ![Zen Cart icon](https://secure.newdream.net/newpanel/oneclick_images/160_icon.png)
> > > > >          
> > > > > 
> > > > > Zen Cart is an open-source shopping cart system.
> > > > > 
> > > > > E-Commerce
> > > > > 
> > > > > Zen
> > > > > 
> > > > > ```
> > > > > 
> > > > > Cart

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![DagArchive](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@DagArchive](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/DagArchive)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 6:25am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/successor-to-csg-net/10892/32 "2017-09-01T06:25:22Z")

</div>

[From Dag Forssell (2017.08.31 23:20 PDT)]

Rupert sent me a direct note yesterday, saying that he had replied to  
CSGnet with some particulars. I gave him a brief call and learned that  
his current host is 1&1, but his post to CSGnet with more detail has  
not arrived.

I had already begun searching for information on hosting providers. I am  
attaching what I have found about my provider, PowWeb (not good at all),  
Rupert’s current provider 1&1 (not good either), SiteGround (super)  
and Bluehost (not very). Four review PDFs attached.

If the Control Panel called cPanel (see link to demo) is OK with Rupert,  
I suggest that IAPCT go with an account at SiteGround. They have a  
presence in London as well as the U.S. I have a call in to Sales and  
expect them to call back, but is is close to midnight, so they may be  
slow about that. My question will be whether it is easy to upgrade from  
the basic account, which is limited to hosting one single web site, to  
the GrowBig account, which allows for multiple PCT websites. I suspect  
they will accomodate that with ease. Either account can be afforded by  
IAPCT, methinketh. See $.

When my account with PowWeb reaches the end of my current contract in  
October 2019, I expect to port all my sites to SiteGround.

Most of the info I cite comes from a site called  
[  
http://www.whoishostingthis.com](http://www.whoishostingthis.com/)

Sites of this nature make their money from finders fees offered by  
companies they point to. One may suspect that their most highly  
recommended top 10 is the one that offers the biggest bounty.

So I googled again and found  
[  
https://webhostinggeeks.com/providers/](https://webhostinggeeks.com/providers/) which provides startling  
information about various hosts. See screen shots. To me, this site  
appears credible and helpful for the selection of a good host.

Best, Dag

[PowWeb review.pdf](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/short-url/yOFXBxlEKXq7TO7Y7X60u5jNHk.pdf) (113 KB)

[SiteGround review.pdf](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/short-url/q8uskDuyYWj83kYXsdwYRQpe2aq.pdf) (290 KB)

[1and1 review.pdf](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/short-url/qkfQDlANwQ00YaS4UiR5h6hBs9r.pdf) (299 KB)

[Bluehost review.pdf](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/short-url/3ZWNSHAmp0xwFFhu12CL2xqBmcC.pdf) (87.2 KB)

> **···**
>
> At 07:08 AM 8/30/2017, you wrote:
> 
> > [From Bruce Nevin  
> > (2017.08.30.09:45 ET)]
> > 
> > Rick Marken (2017.08.29.0915) –
> > 
> > RM: Anyway, the permanence and continuity of the forum would seem to  
> > be an important consideration. By the way, I still like the current, good  
> > old fashioned CSGNet the best. The main problem with it, from my  
> > perspective, is maintaining continuity of management.Â
> > 
> > > A major problem with the present CSGnet is that university support  
> > > very easily turns to arbitrary and summary rejection. A university IT  
> > > department under a Dean’s budgetary strictures has no reason to be  
> > > sympathetic to or supportive of an organization that has no connection to  
> > > campus activities or curricula. I help manage the website that is now  
> > > [zelligharris.org](http://zelligharris.org). Over the years,  
> > > it has been twice evicted, first from Columbia and later from the  
> > > University of Pennsylvania. I was fortunate to be able to retain a  
> > > snapshot each time. It now has a secure home under Dag’s umbrella. IMO we  
> > > cannot be assured of continuity of management at IU (meaning by  
> > > ‘management’ hardware and software support for the platform). Dag, and  
> > > his daughter Karen, offer us that continuity.
> > 
> > A second significant problem, invisible to us because we do not  
> > experience the other term of the comparison, is that CSGnet does not use  
> > or make available to us the more advanced capabilities of the software  
> > (assuming the version of listserv that we have at IU is the same  
> > software).
> > 
> > > Â A new hosting account, exclusive for IAPCT, paid for by  
> > > IAPCT, would be my suggestion.
> > 
> > I strongly agree, and I propose that we budget the $60/year cost as a  
> > regular IAPCT expense.Â
> > 
> > I recommend that the domain name [iapct.org](http://iapct.org)  
> > be reassigned to the new web host. The web page has the appearance of a  
> > memorial to Bill. Worthy though that is, and it should remain an  
> > important part of the website, over time the website should be about PCT  
> > and about the organization IAPCT. The  
> > [  
> > list of desiderata](https://docs.google.com/document/d/13NAF2k-1jEQLELM79FQZXbqhuTOw68braT4ldRTNgSc/edit?usp=sharing) for getting the organization on its feet and for  
> > advancing PCT (subject to amendment, refinement, and extension) suggests  
> > ways of reorganizing the website over time.Â
> > 
> > /Bruce
> > 
> > On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 2:01 PM, Dag Forssell \> \< \> [csgarchive@pctresources.com](mailto:csgarchive@pctresources.com)\> wrote:  
> > [Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 10:30 PDT)]
> > 
> > So far no reply to my post last midnight, but this post from Rupert  
> > holds a key sentence that makes a difference:
> > 
> > > I’ll need command line access to the server and database access  
> > > through phpmyadmin.
> > 
> > I have looked into that by searching help at  
> > [www.powweb.com](http://www.powweb.com/). It becomes clear to  
> > me that Rupert does in fact need to log in to the server. Logging in to  
> > the folder where MyBB is installed is not enough.
> > 
> > We need another approach. Either for Rupert to host  
> > [iapct.org](http://iapct.org) in his system if it is similar  
> > to mine, or for a new hosting account. A new hosting account,  
> > exclusive for IAPCT, paid for by IAPCT, would be my suggestion.
> > 
> > Here is where we / I stand:
> > 
> > The domain name [iapct.org](http://iapct.org) is held by a  
> > separate account at  
> > [www.GoDaddy.com](http://www.godaddy.com/).  
> > It is paid up through July 2021. When it is time to renew, I  
> > suggest a move to  
> > [www.namecheap.com](http://www.namecheap.com/) because GoDaddy  
> > has become expensive. Because I created an account separate from my other  
> > domains at GoDaddy, it is easy to just hand over the login info to a new  
> > webmaster, such as Rupert. Rupert and the board get to agree on a hosting  
> > company. When set up, Rupert can transfer  
> > [iapct.org](http://iapct.org) to the new hosting.
> > 
> > In the overall scheme of things, I think this will be a good move. I  
> > will be happy to hand over the reins to a younger, committed PCTer. With  
> > a stand-alone registration and hosting, Rupert can have other young,  
> > dedicated PCTers as backup or active collaborators. Adam Matic comes to  
> > my mind, but Rupert may know others. I will be happy to support the  
> > operation if Rupert wants me to.
> > 
> > The key move here is to divorce  
> > [iapct.org](http://iapct.org) from my system.
> > 
> > My hosting at [www.PowWeb.com](http://www.powweb.com/) is  
> > “unlimited” but in practice, becase of an error on their part,  
> > I was notified about a year ago that they frown on accounts exceeding 25  
> > GB and especially accounts that stream movies. For movies, use YouTube or  
> > such. The eleven sites at my account hold some 5.5 GB.
> > 
> > [www.powweb.com](http://www.powweb.com/) advertises a low  
> > price to start, but show a regular price of 11.95 per month. When in  
> > October 2016 PowWeb wanted $143 from me, I protested and mentioned  
> > another host, 1&1. They suggested “The One Plan” and I paid  
> > $178.20 for three years. That is just under $60 per year, or $5 per  
> > month. I have been very happy with their performance and support over the  
> > years. Checking out  
> > [  
> > http://www.powweb.com/powweb/hosting.bml](http://www.powweb.com/powweb/hosting.bml) and scrolling down to the  
> > bottom, I see 3 years(65% OFF! ) $3.88/month\*Â  
> > $139.68.
> > 
> > When after three years they raise the rate, you contact them,  
> > protest, mention 1&1 or some such, and continue with “The One  
> > Plan”.
> > 
> > To me, a new hosting account that IAPCT takes charge of will provide  
> > the permanence that Rick just mentioned in his post.
> > 
> > Best to all,
> > 
> > Dag
> > 
> > > [From Rupert Young (2017.08.29 14.00)]
> > > 
> > > (Dag Forssell (2017.08.27 15:25 PDT)]
> > > 
> > > > The way I see it, we don’t need more people to help  
> > > > out.
> > > 
> > > Well, it would be useful if someone performed the installation of  
> > > MyBB whereever it is going to be. Also if someone had a look at the  
> > > plugins to see which ones would be useful for us.
> > > 
> > > > Well, Martin Taylor for ECACS, of course.
> > > > 
> > > > If my assumptions/interpretation that I spelled out and implemented  
> > > > yesterday make sense, most importantly to Rupert, but also to the board  
> > > > and others, all I need do is to provide Rupert with FTP access to the two  
> > > > folders at [iapct.org](http://iapct.org) – CSGnet and Forum.  
> > > > (Rupert can share with others as he sees fit).
> > > 
> > > I’ll need command line access to the server and database access  
> > > through phpmyadmin.
> > > 
> > > > Perhaps Rupert can transfer the subscriber list. But I think it will  
> > > > be a good idea for me to email all CSGnet subscribers. A good number of  
> > > > addresses will bounce, saying there is no such address.
> > > 
> > > Â I’m hoping that I can set up users as part of the  
> > > migration.
> > > 
> > > > However, it seems to me that setting up IAPCTnet is primary. It can  
> > > > and should be done rather immediately. Sorting out the existing archive  
> > > > and populating the forum with the result is a secondary effort that  
> > > > likely will take Rupert some time.
> > > 
> > > If you mean a new domain then yes. Presumably this is one which is  
> > > owned by CSG.  
> > > The initiation of the forum itself is probably best left until I have  
> > > verified the migration process as I wouldn’t want to do it in a live  
> > > environment.
> > > 
> > > Rupert

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![DagArchive](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@DagArchive](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/DagArchive)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 1:34pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/successor-to-csg-net/10892/33 "2017-09-01T13:34:22Z")

</div>

[Dag Forssell (2017.09.01 06:20 PDT)]

Thanks Rupert,

Yes, I have the official IAPCT domain name registered, but it sits in its  
own account at GoDaddy. As reported in [Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 10:30  
PDT)], it is paid up through July 2021. I will transfer as appropriate.  
Super easy.

My experience with PowWeb has been OK, yours with 1&1 OK, but it  
appears to me that the cost of using SiteGround with its stellar reviews  
is about the same as 1&1. When I called in the afternoon, I got a  
person on the line almost immediately. Could not call 1&1. So if it  
is up to me, I would go with SiteGround.

I trust you, Bruce, and any other decision makers will review the PDFs I  
posted.

What is best? Selecting the basic account that allows for only one site,  
or the GrowBig account? It occurs to me that with the GrowBig  
account, we can consider having [PCTnet.org](http://PCTnet.org) rather than [forum.iapct.org](http://forum.iapct.org) or  
[pctnet.iapct.org](http://pctnet.iapct.org).

Checking [namecheap.com](http://namecheap.com) right now, I see

“[pctnet.org](http://pctnet.org) Available $6.88 per year, retail  
$12.48 per year.”

I think that is their way of saying $6.88 first year, $12.48 when you  
renew.

“[pctnet.net](http://pctnet.net) Available $12.88 per  
year.”

To me, [PCTnet.org](http://PCTnet.org) would be preferable. The shorter URL the better.

I look forward to responses to my post last night as well as this one.

Setting up the account can be done by Bruce Nevin, Rupert Young,  
myself… Whatever is most convenient and appropriate.

Best, Dag

> **···**
>
> At 10:04 PM 8/31/2017, you wrote:
> 
> > Reposting
> > 
> > On 30 August 2017 22:05:47 BST, Rupert Young \> [rupert@perceptualrobots.com](mailto:rupert@perceptualrobots.com) wrote:
> > 
> > [From Rupert Young (2017.08.30 22.00)]
> > 
> > There seem to various options for hosting the forum. I’d be happy to  
> > do it myself, but I think the hosting service should be owned by the  
> > IAPCT organisation rather than an individual, for the sake of  
> > responsibility, continuity and administration. Likewise for the domain  
> > name. Is [iapct.org](http://iapct.org) the official domain of IAPCT? Do I understand  
> > correctly that it is owned by Dag, but He is happy to transfer the  
> > ownership to IAPCT?
> > 
> > In terms of hosting providers I use 1and1 and find them pretty good.  
> > They have functionality to install many types of application, including  
> > Wordpress and MyBB, with (almost) one click. Whichever service is chosen  
> > it would make things easier if they have this functionality. The forum  
> > and website could exist side by side under the same domain, with the  
> > forum on a sub-domain.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Rupert
> > 
> > On 29/08/2017 23:42, Dag Forssell wrote:
> > 
> > > [Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 15:40 PDT)]
> > > 
> > > Martin,
> > > 
> > > Thanks for these clarifications. I have explained what my experience  
> > > has been and the costs associated with an account at PowWeb (The only  
> > > host I have experience with). You have spelled out lots more about what  
> > > may be available under your umbrella (given your domain names).
> > > 
> > > You may have misunderstood what I meant by bringing up WordPress.  
> > > Rupert said he did not want the WordPress forum plugin called bbPress  
> > > because the forum would be squished. I understand now and fully agree.  
> > > That is not to say that WordPress as a blog and web page program will not  
> > > or should not be considered. A WordPress blog can coexist with Rupert’s  
> > > preferred MyBB in another folder at  
> > > [www.iapct.org](http://www.iapct.org/). You  
> > > mentioned PCT Wiki (using MediaWiki?). While Bruce N. has updating the  
> > > public Wiki on his agenda, I thought of the possibility of adding a blog.
> > > 
> > > Time to stand by so Rupert, Bruce N, Rick and others can weigh in.  
> > > BTW, I wanted to mention Henry Yin as another young, committed PCTer.  
> > > Those of us who have been around for 30 or 40 (Dick Robertson \> 50)  
> > > years will end up passing the baton one of these days whether we want to  
> > > or not.
> > > 
> > > Best, Dag
> > > 
> > > > [Martin Taylor 2017.08.29.16.29]
> > > > 
> > > > > [Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 12:30 PDT)]
> > > > > 
> > > > > Martin, I find it a tad hard to follow your story. What is your site?
> > > > 
> > > > I have several, including [mmtaylor.net](http://mmtaylor.net) and [ecacs.net](http://ecacs.net) (now unused, but  
> > > > still valid).
> > > > 
> > > > > Who owns and handles what?
> > > > 
> > > > I handle most of them. I gave administrative privileges to others for  
> > > > three that were related to the NATO group to which I belonged until  
> > > > recently, but I don’t think they use them any more. Again, they were paid  
> > > > 10 years in advance.
> > > > 
> > > > > The hosting service? I see that Dreamhost is yet another hosting  
> > > > > company (there are many these days) but I don’t see their pricing. They  
> > > > > appear geared to handle everything for you.
> > > > 
> > > > The reason I went to Dreamhost from my earlier hosting company was  
> > > > that I got full shell access to a virtual machine (and could pay for a  
> > > > real machine if I wanted) at a very low cost. The flexibility mattered to  
> > > > me. Once upon a time I used to be quite handy with Unix, so that was  
> > > > important to me. I hardly had Dreamhost handle anything. But I haven’t  
> > > > really initiated anything for quite a few years. Now they offer these  
> > > > “one-click installs” if you want to use them. The advantage to  
> > > > that is that Dreamhost semi-automatically keeps them updated with  
> > > > security fixes, whereas if you roll your own from source code or install  
> > > > something else from github or somewhere, you have to keep an eye out for  
> > > > the necessary fixes. I’m not sure whether I would use a one-click install  
> > > > now, if I were starting again, but I could if I wanted. Also, they have  
> > > > been very reliable, and helpful (years ago) when I had problems. Also  
> > > > again, I have unlimited storage, though they don’t like you using your  
> > > > space for your personal archives. The have a cloud service for that, if I  
> > > > remember correctly.
> > > > 
> > > > > Inspired by your list of functions (not familiar with them), your  
> > > > > post suggests to me:� With a dedicated IAPCT account, opportunities  
> > > > > open up.� Still using the same domain, WordPress can be installed  
> > > > > in another folder (separate from MyBB).
> > > > 
> > > > Sure. I have several such separate areas on [mmtaylor.net](http://mmtaylor.net), and on some  
> > > > other domains I have subdomains. Very easy to set up.
> > > > 
> > > > > …
> > > > > 
> > > > > I already showed you WordPress at  
> > > > > [  
> > > > > www.howwefunction.com](http://www.howwefunction.com/). That is installed at the root of the site.
> > > > > 
> > > > > WordPress started its life as blog software, but added website  
> > > > > building and is now dominant. It is the most user-friendly in its class  
> > > > > as I understand it.
> > > > 
> > > > Rupert said he didn’t want it, which is why I suggested phpBB. But  
> > > > any other Forum software would be fine. It just wouldn’t be a one-click  
> > > > install. You would have to install it in the way you would do on a  
> > > > machine of its own. I wouldn’t install anything at the root of the site,  
> > > > if I were doing it (and I am definitely not volunteering).
> > > > 
> > > > > Obviously, IAPCT (the non-profit, not the site) can purchase  
> > > > > additional domain names and host them at the same system. A domain runs  
> > > > > around $10 per year.
> > > > 
> > > > I’m surprised they don’t have a price list. My last year’s account  
> > > > shows one domain continued at $14.95 and another at $13.95. I don’t know  
> > > > why the difference. Its the anti-malware service that costs money, at  
> > > > $3/month per domain.
> > > > 
> > > > Anyway, I have no brief for Dreamhost other than as a satisfied  
> > > > customer who wanted maximum flexibility, the ability to use everyday  
> > > > compiler languages and third party software, no worries about disk usage,  
> > > > and regular stats on one’s sites. IAPCT and its volunteer administrators  
> > > > may have different requirements. I just offer the suggestion, now with a  
> > > > few more reasons why I chose Dreamhost. I confess that I have felt no  
> > > > need to look elsewhere, so I have no idea whether better deals or  
> > > > facilities can be found.
> > > > 
> > > > Martin
> > > > 
> > > > > Best, Dag
> > > > > 
> > > > > > [Martin Taylor 2017.08.29.14.36]
> > > > > 
> > > > > > In view of that, I am posting publicly a message I sent to Dag and  
> > > > > > Rupert, with minor edits.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > * * *
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > If there’s any problem with Dag’s site, I have an unlimited number of  
> > > > > > domains and of storage space on Dreamhost, which has quite a lot of  
> > > > > > facilities. A couple of my domains are administered by someone else with  
> > > > > > full shell access. Following is a list of their “one-click  
> > > > > > installs”. Maybe the IAPCT would like a PCT Wiki, or Zencart for  
> > > > > > fees, etc? Rupert might like phpBB. A domain is not free, but the cost is  
> > > > > > about $15/yr , plus $36/yr if you want them to keep the site clean of  
> > > > > > malware, and the “one-click installs” are free as far as I know  
> > > > > > (I do have a MediaWiki, but I haven’t looked at it for a long time. I  
> > > > > > might have installed it myself, because these one-click installs are  
> > > > > > mostly newer than my Dreamhost membership).
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Of course, if you like the Dreamhost facilities, I don’t have to host  
> > > > > > the domain. IAPCT could own it and register it, with Rupert and others to  
> > > > > > administer it.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Just a thought.Â
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Martin  
> > > > > > ![MediaWiki icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/c/cf774d696d5028548fa57d4f3fa7db603590d847.png)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > MediaWiki, the software behind Wikipedia, is free collaborative  
> > > > > > software.  
> > > > > > Wiki, Featured  
> > > > > > MediaWiki  
> > > > > > ![WordPress icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/1/1d6de28c1a04ac7279263e285751dfa051675cee.png)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > WordPress is a free web-based software you can use to create a  
> > > > > > website or blog.  
> > > > > > Blog, CMS,  
> > > > > > Featured  
> > > > > > WordPress  
> > > > > > ![concrete5 icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/6/622c86e33e28f01f27fabffc46d7192c79c5e13e.png)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > concrete5 is a website building tool that is simple for site owners  
> > > > > > to use, and powerful for site developers to work with.  
> > > > > > CMS, Forum  
> > > > > > concrete5  
> > > > > > ![dotProject icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/f/faf90adf588cf95b8582b5cd917d6278cd0471ba.png)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > dotProject is a web-based Project Management app designed to provide  
> > > > > > project layout and control functions.  
> > > > > > Project Management  
> > > > > > dotProject  
> > > > > > ![Joomla! icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/b/b060f024d34a0a06e0e607c90c81d59ad8b0b40f.png)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Joomla is an award-winning CMS which enables you to build Web sites  
> > > > > > and powerful online applications.  
> > > > > > CMS  
> > > > > > Joomla!  
> > > > > > ![Open Web Analytics icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/7/7457e8ec41cbef6b7c3ec1e0dbf86154891a3e92.png)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Open Web Analytics (OWA) is open source web analytics software that  
> > > > > > you can use to track and analyze your web sites.  
> > > > > > Statistics, Analytics  
> > > > > > Open Web Analytics
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > OpenVBX is a web-based, open source phone system for business.  
> > > > > > Telephony  
> > > > > > OpenVBX  
> > > > > > ![phpBB icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/d/d035bfb1942ce4d5862e628f5361dcb3d62e3f49.png)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > phpBB allows users to create bulletin boards on their site where  
> > > > > > members can express their hearts out.  
> > > > > > Forum  
> > > > > > phpBB  
> > > > > > ![Piwigo icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/8/878e048cc4ba0748acd1e12136bdc534027886b8.png)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Piwigo is an open source photo gallery, customize it with themes and  
> > > > > > plugins.  
> > > > > > Gallery  
> > > > > > Piwigo  
> > > > > > ![WebCalendar icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/3/3b43b27899d7b70e18675997c7555beb838e8513.png)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > WebCalendar is a highly-customizable and easy-to-use web  
> > > > > > calendar.  
> > > > > > Other  
> > > > > > WebCalendar  
> > > > > > ![Zen Cart icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/8/86cc43a1b0aa3c12b9326baadd06edb5029246d5.png)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Zen Cart is an open-source shopping cart system.  
> > > > > > E-Commerce  
> > > > > > Zen  
> > > > > > Cart
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Dr Rupert Young
> > 
> > [  
> > www.perceptualrobots.com](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.perceptualrobots.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=cw8yQfMNzasHVWcfmthk3NxFKMiNXC-cuedKiteam-4&s=bCnRI0TwCtq5FXV-uYK6HpQA4vFvmgmWba0eg-9-R-s&e=)
> > 
> > –
> > 
> > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/user_avatar/discourse.iapct.org/bnhpct/32/34_2.png) [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 2:43pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/successor-to-csg-net/10892/34 "2017-09-01T14:43:57Z")

</div>

[From Bruce Nevin (2017.09.01.10:43 ET)]

I happily defer to you two (Dag and Rupert) for the implementation.

Those reviews are persuasive. I agree with your recommendation of SiteGround. The market share stats displayed at the ends of the PDFs amount to a kind of crowd-sourced review, impressive. I have some familiarity with 1and1, which the review says is ‘respected’. The big old (1988) incumbent losing ground to the (2004) newcomer.Â

> SiteGround, a sharply rising growth curve with 709,688 accounts gained, 368,145 lost.

> 1and1, a precipitously falling growth curve with 4.6M accounts gained, 8.6M lost

From Wikipedia:

> **SiteGround** Â is a web hosting company founded in 2004 and servicing more than 500,000 domains worldwide. It provides shared hosting, cloud hosting and dedicated servers. Currently, the company employs over 400 people.

> **1&1 Internet** , founded in 1988,[[3]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%261_Internet#cite_note-3) is a [web hosting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_hosting) company owned by [United Internet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Internet), a German [Internet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet) company. Its CEO is Robert Hoffmann.[[4]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%261_Internet#cite_note-4) The company is one of the world’s largest web hosting companies, with data centers in Europe and in [Lenexa, Kansas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenexa,_Kansas).

Though it is smaller, and headquartered in Bulgaria, I am not particularly worried about the stability of the company. In the event they were to go under (unlikely–demand for web hosting on the Internet is not going away any time soon), we retain full backup and porting to a new provider is not a big problem.

> **···**
>
> On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 2:25 AM, Dag Forssell [csgarchive@pctresources.com](mailto:csgarchive@pctresources.com) wrote:
> 
> > [From Dag Forssell (2017.08.31 23:20 PDT)]
> > 
> > Rupert sent me a direct note yesterday, saying that he had replied to  
> > CSGnet with some particulars. I gave him a brief call and learned that  
> > his current host is 1&1, but his post to CSGnet with more detail has  
> > not arrived.
> > 
> > I had already begun searching for information on hosting providers. I am  
> > attaching what I have found about my provider, PowWeb (not good at all),  
> > Rupert’s current provider 1&1 (not good either), SiteGround (super)  
> > and Bluehost (not very). Four review PDFs attached.
> > 
> > If the Control Panel called cPanel (see link to demo) is OK with Rupert,  
> > I suggest that IAPCT go with an account at SiteGround. They have a  
> > presence in London as well as the U.S. I have a call in to Sales and  
> > expect them to call back, but is is close to midnight, so they may be  
> > slow about that. My question will be whether it is easy to upgrade from  
> > the basic account, which is limited to hosting one single web site, to  
> > the GrowBig account, which allows for multiple PCT websites. I suspect  
> > they will accomodate that with ease. Either account can be afforded by  
> > IAPCT, methinketh. See $.
> > 
> > When my account with PowWeb reaches the end of my current contract in  
> > October 2019, I expect to port all my sites to SiteGround.
> > 
> > Most of the info I cite comes from a site called  
> > [  
> > http://www.whoishostingthis.com](http://www.whoishostingthis.com/)Â Â
> > 
> > Sites of this nature make their money from finders fees offered by  
> > companies they point to. One may suspect that their most highly  
> > recommended top 10 is the one that offers the biggest bounty.
> > 
> > So I googled again and found  
> > [  
> > https://webhostinggeeks.com/providers/](https://webhostinggeeks.com/providers/) which provides startling  
> > information about various hosts. See screen shots. To me, this site  
> > appears credible and helpful for the selection of a good host.
> > 
> > Best, Dag
> > 
> > At 07:08 AM 8/30/2017, you wrote:
> > 
> > > [From Bruce Nevin  
> > > (2017.08.30.09:45 ET)]
> > > 
> > > Rick Marken (2017.08.29.0915) –
> > > 
> > > RM: Anyway, the permanence and continuity of the forum would seem to  
> > > be an important consideration. By the way, I still like the current, good  
> > > old fashioned CSGNet the best. The main problem with it, from my  
> > > perspective, is maintaining continuity of management.Â
> > > 
> > > BN\> A major problem with the present CSGnet is that university support  
> > > very easily turns to arbitrary and summary rejection. A university IT  
> > > department under a Dean’s budgetary strictures has no reason to be  
> > > sympathetic to or supportive of an organization that has no connection to  
> > > campus activities or curricula. I help manage the website that is now  
> > > [zelligharris.org](http://zelligharris.org). Over the years,  
> > > it has been twice evicted, first from Columbia and later from the  
> > > University of Pennsylvania. I was fortunate to be able to retain a  
> > > snapshot each time. It now has a secure home under Dag’s umbrella. IMO we  
> > > cannot be assured of continuity of management at IU (meaning by  
> > > ‘management’ hardware and software support for the platform). Dag, and  
> > > his daughter Karen, offer us that continuity.
> > > 
> > > A second significant problem, invisible to us because we do not  
> > > experience the other term of the comparison, is that CSGnet does not use  
> > > or make available to us the more advanced capabilities of the software  
> > > (assuming the version of listserv that we have at IU is the same  
> > > software).
> > > 
> > > DF\>Â A new hosting account, exclusive for IAPCT, paid for by  
> > > IAPCT, would be my suggestion.
> > > 
> > > I strongly agree, and I propose that we budget the $60/year cost as a  
> > > regular IAPCT expense.Â
> > > 
> > > I recommend that the domain name [iapct.org](http://iapct.org)  
> > > be reassigned to the new web host. The web page has the appearance of a  
> > > memorial to Bill. Worthy though that is, and it should remain an  
> > > important part of the website, over time the website should be about PCT  
> > > and about the organization IAPCT. The  
> > > [  
> > > list of desiderata](https://docs.google.com/document/d/13NAF2k-1jEQLELM79FQZXbqhuTOw68braT4ldRTNgSc/edit?usp=sharing) for getting the organization on its feet and for  
> > > advancing PCT (subject to amendment, refinement, and extension) suggests  
> > > ways of reorganizing the website over time.Â
> > > 
> > > /Bruce
> > > 
> > > On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 2:01 PM, Dag Forssell  
> > > \<  
> > > [csgarchive@pctresources.com](mailto:csgarchive@pctresources.com)\> wrote:
> > > 
> > > [Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 10:30 PDT)]
> > > 
> > > > I’ll need command line access to the server and database access  
> > > > through phpmyadmin.  
> > > > So far no reply to my post last midnight, but this post from Rupert  
> > > > holds a key sentence that makes a difference:
> > > 
> > > I have looked into that by searching help at  
> > > [www.powweb.com](http://www.powweb.com/). It becomes clear to  
> > > me that Rupert does in fact need to log in to the server. Logging in to  
> > > the folder where MyBB is installed is not enough.
> > > 
> > > We need another approach. Either for Rupert to host  
> > > [iapct.org](http://iapct.org) in his system if it is similar  
> > > to mine, or for a new hosting account. A new hosting account,  
> > > exclusive for IAPCT, paid for by IAPCT, would be my suggestion.
> > > 
> > > Here is where we / I stand:
> > > 
> > > The domain name [iapct.org](http://iapct.org) is held by a  
> > > separate account at  
> > > [www.GoDaddy.com](http://www.godaddy.com/).
> > > 
> > > It is paid up through July 2021. When it is time to renew, I  
> > > suggest a move to  
> > > [www.namecheap.com](http://www.namecheap.com/) because GoDaddy  
> > > has become expensive. Because I created an account separate from my other  
> > > domains at GoDaddy, it is easy to just hand over the login info to a new  
> > > webmaster, such as Rupert. Rupert and the board get to agree on a hosting  
> > > company. When set up, Rupert can transfer  
> > > [iapct.org](http://iapct.org) to the new hosting.
> > > 
> > > In the overall scheme of things, I think this will be a good move. I  
> > > will be happy to hand over the reins to a younger, committed PCTer. With  
> > > a stand-alone registration and hosting, Rupert can have other young,  
> > > dedicated PCTers as backup or active collaborators. Adam Matic comes to  
> > > my mind, but Rupert may know others. I will be happy to support the  
> > > operation if Rupert wants me to.
> > > 
> > > The key move here is to divorce  
> > > [iapct.org](http://iapct.org) from my system.
> > > 
> > > My hosting at [www.PowWeb.com](http://www.powweb.com/) is  
> > > “unlimited” but in practice, becase of an error on their part,  
> > > I was notified about a year ago that they frown on accounts exceeding 25  
> > > GB and especially accounts that stream movies. For movies, use YouTube or  
> > > such. The eleven sites at my account hold some 5.5 GB.
> > > 
> > > [www.powweb.com](http://www.powweb.com/) advertises a low  
> > > price to start, but show a regular price of 11.95 per month. When in  
> > > October 2016 PowWeb wanted $143 from me, I protested and mentioned  
> > > another host, 1&1. They suggested “The One Plan” and I paid  
> > > $178.20 for three years. That is just under $60 per year, or $5 per  
> > > month. I have been very happy with their performance and support over the  
> > > years. Checking out  
> > > [  
> > > http://www.powweb.com/powweb/hosting.bml](http://www.powweb.com/powweb/hosting.bml) and scrolling down to the  
> > > bottom, I see 3 years(65% OFF! ) $3.88/month\*  
> > > $139.68.
> > > 
> > > When after three years they raise the rate, you contact them,  
> > > protest, mention 1&1 or some such, and continue with “The One  
> > > Plan”.
> > > 
> > > To me, a new hosting account that IAPCT takes charge of will provide  
> > > the permanence that Rick just mentioned in his post.
> > > 
> > > Best to all,
> > > 
> > > Dag
> > > 
> > > > [From Rupert Young (2017.08.29 14.00)]
> > > > 
> > > > > The way I see it, we don’t need more people to help  
> > > > > out.  
> > > > > (Dag Forssell (2017.08.27 15:25 PDT)]
> > > > 
> > > > > Well, Martin Taylor for ECACS, of course.
> > > > > 
> > > > > If my assumptions/interpretation that I spelled out and implemented  
> > > > > yesterday make sense, most importantly to Rupert, but also to the board  
> > > > > and others, all I need do is to provide Rupert with FTP access to the two  
> > > > > folders at [iapct.org](http://iapct.org) – CSGnet and Forum.  
> > > > > (Rupert can share with others as he sees fit).  
> > > > > Well, it would be useful if someone performed the installation of  
> > > > > MyBB whereever it is going to be. Also if someone had a look at the  
> > > > > plugins to see which ones would be useful for us.
> > > 
> > > > Perhaps Rupert can transfer the subscriber list. But I think it will  
> > > > be a good idea for me to email all CSGnet subscribers. A good number of  
> > > > addresses will bounce, saying there is no such address.  
> > > > I’ll need command line access to the server and database access  
> > > > through phpmyadmin.
> > > 
> > > > However, it seems to me that setting up IAPCTnet is primary. It can  
> > > > and should be done rather immediately. Sorting out the existing archive  
> > > > and populating the forum with the result is a secondary effort that  
> > > > likely will take Rupert some time.  
> > > > Â I’m hoping that I can set up users as ppart of the  
> > > > migration.
> > > 
> > > If you mean a new domain then yes. Presumably this is one which is  
> > > owned by CSG.  
> > > The initiation of the forum itself is probably best left until I have  
> > > verified the migration process as I wouldn’t want to do it in a live  
> > > environment.
> > > 
> > > Rupert

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/user_avatar/discourse.iapct.org/bnhpct/32/34_2.png) [@bnhpct](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/bnhpct)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 2:55pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/successor-to-csg-net/10892/35 "2017-09-01T14:55:03Z")

</div>

[From Bruce Nevin 2017.09.01.10:54 ET)]

I agree, go for the account that gives the email forum its own domain.

I like [pct.net](http://pct.net), but it appears that a company called [OurDomains.com](http://OurDomains.com) has bought up the [pct.net](http://pct.net) domain among others, looking for someone to make an offer. Here’s the return from whois:

> [pct.net](http://pct.net)

> Â Â Domain Name: [PCT.NET](http://PCT.NET)

> Â Â Registry Domain ID: 734945\_DOMAIN\_NET-VRSN

> Â Â Registrar WHOIS Server: [whois.ourdomains.com](http://whois.ourdomains.com)

> Â Â Registrar URL: [http://www.ourdomains.com](http://www.ourdomains.com)

> Â Â Updated Date: 2017-06-07T06:37:19Z

> Â Â Creation Date: 1998-01-06T05:00:00Z

> Â Â Registry Expiry Date: 2019-01-05T05:00:00Z

> Â Â Registrar: Ourdomains Limited

> Â Â Registrar IANA ID: 1654

> Â Â Registrar Abuse Contact Email: [abuse@22.cn](mailto:abuse@22.cn)

> Â Â Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +86.57188276020

> Â Â Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited [https://icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited](https://icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited)

> Â Â Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited [https://icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited](https://icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited)

> Â Â Name Server: [NS1.4.CN](http://NS1.4.CN)

> Â Â Name Server: [NS2.4.CN](http://NS2.4.CN)

> Â Â DNSSEC: unsigned

> Â Â URL of the ICANN Whois Inaccuracy Complaint Form: [https://www.icann.org/wicf/](https://www.icann.org/wicf/)

> > > > Last update of whois database: 2017-09-01T14:48:37ZÂ

The page is mostly in Chinese (maybe appealing to a market in China but not a Chinese company?), and [https://www.ourdomains.com](https://www.ourdomains.com) says “make an offer”.

> **···**
>
> On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 9:34 AM, Dag Forssell [csgarchive@pctresources.com](mailto:csgarchive@pctresources.com) wrote:
> 
> > [Dag Forssell (2017.09.01 06:20 PDT)]
> > 
> > Thanks Rupert,
> > 
> > Yes, I have the official IAPCT domain name registered, but it sits in its  
> > own account at GoDaddy. As reported in [Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 10:30  
> > PDT)], it is paid up through July 2021. I will transfer as appropriate.  
> > Super easy.
> > 
> > My experience with PowWeb has been OK, yours with 1&1 OK, but it  
> > appears to me that the cost of using SiteGround with its stellar reviews  
> > is about the same as 1&1. When I called in the afternoon, I got a  
> > person on the line almost immediately. Could not call 1&1. So if it  
> > is up to me, I would go with SiteGround.
> > 
> > I trust you, Bruce, and any other decision makers will review the PDFs I  
> > posted.
> > 
> > What is best? Selecting the basic account that allows for only one site,  
> > or the GrowBig account? It occurs to me that with the GrowBig  
> > account, we can consider having [PCTnet.org](http://PCTnet.org) rather than [forum.iapct.org](http://forum.iapct.org) or  
> > [pctnet.iapct.org](http://pctnet.iapct.org).
> > 
> > Checking [namecheap.com](http://namecheap.com) right now, I see
> > 
> > “[pctnet.org](http://pctnet.org)  Available $6.88 per year, retail  
> > $12.48 per year.”
> > 
> > I think that is their way of saying $6.88 first year, $12.48 when you  
> > renew.
> > 
> > “[pctnet.net](http://pctnet.net)  Available $12.88 per  
> > year.”
> > 
> > To me, [PCTnet.org](http://PCTnet.org) would be preferable. The shorter URL the better.
> > 
> > I look forward to responses to my post last night as well as this one.
> > 
> > Setting up the account can be done by Bruce Nevin, Rupert Young,  
> > myself… Whatever is most convenient and appropriate.
> > 
> > Best, Dag
> > 
> > At 10:04 PM 8/31/2017, you wrote:
> > 
> > > Reposting
> > > 
> > > On 30 August 2017 22:05:47 BST, Rupert Young  
> > > [rupert@perceptualrobots.com](mailto:rupert@perceptualrobots.com) wrote:
> > > 
> > > [From Rupert Young (2017.08.30 22.00)]
> > > 
> > > There seem to various options for hosting the forum. I’d be happy to  
> > > do it myself, but I think the hosting service should be owned by the  
> > > IAPCT organisation rather than an individual, for the sake of  
> > > responsibility, continuity and administration. Likewise for the domain  
> > > name. Is [iapct.org](http://iapct.org) the official domain of IAPCT? Do I understand  
> > > correctly that it is owned by Dag, but He is happy to transfer the  
> > > ownership to IAPCT?
> > > 
> > > In terms of hosting providers I use 1and1 and find them pretty good.  
> > > They have functionality to install many types of application, including  
> > > Wordpress and MyBB, with (almost) one click. Whichever service is chosen  
> > > it would make things easier if they have this functionality. The forum  
> > > and website could exist side by side under the same domain, with the  
> > > forum on a sub-domain.
> > > 
> > > Regards,
> > > 
> > > Rupert
> > > 
> > > On 29/08/2017 23:42, Dag Forssell wrote:
> > > 
> > > > [Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 15:40 PDT)]
> > > > 
> > > > Martin,
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks for these clarifications. I have explained what my experience  
> > > > has been and the costs associated with an account at PowWeb (The only  
> > > > host I have experience with). You have spelled out lots more about what  
> > > > may be available under your umbrella (given your domain names).
> > > > 
> > > > You may have misunderstood what I meant by bringing up WordPress.  
> > > > Rupert said he did not want the WordPress forum plugin called bbPress  
> > > > because the forum would be squished. I understand now and fully agree.  
> > > > That is not to say that WordPress as a blog and web page program will not  
> > > > or should not be considered. A WordPress blog can coexist with Rupert’s  
> > > > preferred MyBB in another folder at  
> > > > [www.iapct.org](http://www.iapct.org/). You  
> > > > mentioned PCT Wiki (using MediaWiki?). While Bruce N. has updating the  
> > > > public Wiki on his agenda, I thought of the possibility of adding a blog.
> > > > 
> > > > Time to stand by so Rupert, Bruce N, Rick and others can weigh in.  
> > > > BTW, I wanted to mention Henry Yin as another young, committed PCTer.  
> > > > Those of us who have been around for 30 or 40 (Dick Robertson \> 50)  
> > > > years will end up passing the baton one of these days whether we want to  
> > > > or not.
> > > > 
> > > > Best, Dag
> > > > 
> > > > > [Martin Taylor 2017.08.29.16.29]
> > > > > 
> > > > > > [Dag Forssell (2017.08.29 12:30 PDT)]
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Martin, I find it a tad hard to follow your story. What is your site?
> > > > 
> > > > I have several, including [mmtaylor.net](http://mmtaylor.net) and [ecacs.net](http://ecacs.net) (now unused, but  
> > > > still valid).
> > > > 
> > > > > Who owns and handles what?
> > > > 
> > > > I handle most of them. I gave administrative privileges to others for  
> > > > three that were related to the NATO group to which I belonged until  
> > > > recently, but I don’t think they use them any more. Again, they were paid  
> > > > 10 years in advance.
> > > > 
> > > > > The hosting service? I see that Dreamhost is yet another hosting  
> > > > > company (there are many these days) but I don’t see their pricing. They  
> > > > > appear geared to handle everything for you.
> > > > 
> > > > The reason I went to Dreamhost from my earlier hosting company was  
> > > > that I got full shell access to a virtual machine (and could pay for a  
> > > > real machine if I wanted) at a very low cost. The flexibility mattered to  
> > > > me. Once upon a time I used to be quite handy with Unix, so that was  
> > > > important to me. I hardly had Dreamhost handle anything. But I haven’t  
> > > > really initiated anything for quite a few years. Now they offer these  
> > > > “one-click installs” if you want to use them. The advantage to  
> > > > that is that Dreamhost semi-automatically keeps them updated with  
> > > > security fixes, whereas if you roll your own from source code or install  
> > > > something else from github or somewhere, you have to keep an eye out for  
> > > > the necessary fixes. I’m not sure whether I would use a one-click install  
> > > > now, if I were starting again, but I could if I wanted. Also, they have  
> > > > been very reliable, and helpful (years ago) when I had problems. Also  
> > > > again, I have unlimited storage, though they don’t like you using your  
> > > > space for your personal archives. The have a cloud service for that, if I  
> > > > remember correctly.
> > > > 
> > > > > Inspired by your list of functions (not familiar with them), your  
> > > > > post suggests to me: With a dedicated IAPCT account, opportunities  
> > > > > open up. Still using the same domain, WordPress can be installed  
> > > > > in another folder (separate from MyBB).
> > > > 
> > > > Sure. I have several such separate areas on [mmtaylor.net](http://mmtaylor.net), and on some  
> > > > other domains I have subdomains. Very easy to set up.
> > > > 
> > > > > …
> > > > > 
> > > > > I already showed you WordPress at  
> > > > > [  
> > > > > www.howwefunction.com](http://www.howwefunction.com/). That is installed at the root of the site.
> > > > > 
> > > > > WordPress started its life as blog software, but added website  
> > > > > building and is now dominant. It is the most user-friendly in its class  
> > > > > as I understand it.
> > 
> > Rupert said he didn’t want it, which is why I suggested phpBB. But  
> > any other Forum software would be fine. It just wouldn’t be a one-click  
> > install. You would have to install it in the way you would do on a  
> > machine of its own. I wouldn’t install anything at the root of the site,  
> > if I were doing it (and I am definitely not volunteering).
> > 
> > > Obviously, IAPCT (the non-profit, not the site) can purchase  
> > > additional domain names and host them at the same system. A domain runs  
> > > around $10 per year.
> > 
> > I’m surprised they don’t have a price list. My last year’s account  
> > shows one domain continued at $14.95 and another at $13.95. I don’t know  
> > why the difference. Its the anti-malware service that costs money, at  
> > $3/month per domain.
> > 
> > Anyway, I have no brief for Dreamhost other than as a satisfied  
> > customer who wanted maximum flexibility, the ability to use everyday  
> > compiler languages and third party software, no worries about disk usage,  
> > and regular stats on one’s sites. IAPCT and its volunteer administrators  
> > may have different requirements. I just offer the suggestion, now with a  
> > few more reasons why I chose Dreamhost. I confess that I have felt no  
> > need to look elsewhere, so I have no idea whether better deals or  
> > facilities can be found.
> > 
> > Martin
> > 
> > > Best, Dag
> > > 
> > > > [Martin Taylor 2017.08.29.14.36]
> > > 
> > > > In view of that, I am posting publicly a message I sent to Dag and  
> > > > Rupert, with minor edits.
> > > > 
> > > > * * *
> > > > 
> > > > If there’s any problem with Dag’s site, I have an unlimited number of  
> > > > domains and of storage space on Dreamhost, which has quite a lot of  
> > > > facilities. A couple of my domains are administered by someone else with  
> > > > full shell access. Following is a list of their “one-click  
> > > > installs”. Maybe the IAPCT would like a PCT Wiki, or Zencart for  
> > > > fees, etc? Rupert might like phpBB. A domain is not free, but the cost is  
> > > > about $15/yr , plus $36/yr if you want them to keep the site clean of  
> > > > malware, and the “one-click installs” are free as far as I know  
> > > > (I do have a MediaWiki, but I haven’t looked at it for a long time. I  
> > > > might have installed it myself, because these one-click installs are  
> > > > mostly newer than my Dreamhost membership).
> > > > 
> > > > Of course, if you like the Dreamhost facilities, I don’t have to host  
> > > > the domain. IAPCT could own it and register it, with Rupert and others to  
> > > > administer it.
> > > > 
> > > > Just a thought.Â
> > > > 
> > > > Martin  
> > > > ![MediaWiki icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/c/cf774d696d5028548fa57d4f3fa7db603590d847.png)  
> > > > Â  
> > > > MediaWiki, the software behind Wikipedia, is free collaborative  
> > > > software.  
> > > > Wiki, Featured  
> > > > MediaWiki  
> > > > ![WordPress icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/1/1d6de28c1a04ac7279263e285751dfa051675cee.png)  
> > > > Â  
> > > > WordPress is a free web-based software you can use to create a  
> > > > website or blog.  
> > > > Blog, CMS,  
> > > > Featured  
> > > > WordPress  
> > > > ![concrete5 icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/6/622c86e33e28f01f27fabffc46d7192c79c5e13e.png)  
> > > > Â  
> > > > concrete5 is a website building tool that is simple for site owners  
> > > > to use, and powerful for site developers to work with.  
> > > > CMS, Forum  
> > > > concrete5  
> > > > ![dotProject icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/f/faf90adf588cf95b8582b5cd917d6278cd0471ba.png)  
> > > > Â  
> > > > dotProject is a web-based Project Management app designed to provide  
> > > > project layout and control functions.  
> > > > Project Management  
> > > > dotProject  
> > > > ![Joomla! icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/b/b060f024d34a0a06e0e607c90c81d59ad8b0b40f.png)  
> > > > Â  
> > > > Joomla is an award-winning CMS which enables you to build Web sites  
> > > > and powerful online applications.  
> > > > CMS  
> > > > Joomla!  
> > > > ![Open Web Analytics icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/7/7457e8ec41cbef6b7c3ec1e0dbf86154891a3e92.png)  
> > > > Â  
> > > > Open Web Analytics (OWA) is open source web analytics software that  
> > > > you can use to track and analyze your web sites.  
> > > > Statistics, Analytics  
> > > > Open Web Analytics  
> > > >   
> > > > Â  
> > > > OpenVBX is a web-based, open source phone system for business.  
> > > > Telephony  
> > > > OpenVBX  
> > > > ![phpBB icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/d/d035bfb1942ce4d5862e628f5361dcb3d62e3f49.png)  
> > > > Â  
> > > > phpBB allows users to create bulletin boards on their site where  
> > > > members can express their hearts out.  
> > > > Forum  
> > > > phpBB  
> > > > ![Piwigo icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/8/878e048cc4ba0748acd1e12136bdc534027886b8.png)  
> > > > Â  
> > > > Piwigo is an open source photo gallery, customize it with themes and  
> > > > plugins.  
> > > > Gallery  
> > > > Piwigo  
> > > > ![WebCalendar icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/3/3b43b27899d7b70e18675997c7555beb838e8513.png)  
> > > > Â  
> > > > WebCalendar is a highly-customizable and easy-to-use web  
> > > > calendar.  
> > > > Other  
> > > > WebCalendar  
> > > > ![Zen Cart icon](http://discourse.iapct.org/uploads/default/original/2X/8/86cc43a1b0aa3c12b9326baadd06edb5029246d5.png)  
> > > > Â  
> > > > Zen Cart is an open-source shopping cart system.  
> > > > E-Commerce  
> > > > Zen  
> > > > Cart
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Dr Rupert Young
> > 
> > [  
> > www.perceptualrobots.com](https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.perceptualrobots.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=-dJBNItYEMOLt6aj_KjGi2LMO_Q8QB-ZzxIZIF8DGyQ&m=cw8yQfMNzasHVWcfmthk3NxFKMiNXC-cuedKiteam-4&s=bCnRI0TwCtq5FXV-uYK6HpQA4vFvmgmWba0eg-9-R-s&e=)
> > 
> > –
> > 
> > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![rupert](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/f14d63/32.png) [@rupert](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/rupert)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 3:18pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/successor-to-csg-net/10892/36 "2017-09-01T15:18:04Z")

</div>

[From Rupert Young (2017.09.01 16.15)]

(Dag Forssell (2017.08.31 23:20 PDT)]

> If the Control Panel called cPanel (see link to demo) is OK with Rupert, I suggest that IAPCT go with an account at SiteGround.

Sure. Do they offer MyBB as an application?

Rupert

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![DagArchive](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@DagArchive](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/DagArchive)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 11:57pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/successor-to-csg-net/10892/37 "2017-09-01T23:57:03Z")

</div>

[Dag Forssell (2017.09.01 15:30 PDT)]

Rupert, (and Bruce,)

The MyBB site, [Install - MyBB Documentation](https://docs.mybb.com/1.8/install/) says

Preparation

Downloading the MyBB Files  
First, download the latest MyBB package from the MyBB downloads page  
After downloading the zip file, unzip/decompress the file.  
On Windows you can either use the built in utility or an application such as 7-zip  
... it goes on.

As I understand it, a host does not have to have a ready-made install package.  
You can download and install MyBB yourself. I had a chat with PowWeb and sent it as a pdf. To me, the PowWeb technician confirmed this understanding.

To be sure, and for you to get peace of mind, I would suggest you call SiteGround in London yourself to ask this question.

> **[Discover SiteGround's Company Culture](https://www.siteground.co.uk/company)**
>
> See what SiteGround is all about, how the company started, and who are the faces behind the brand.

SiteGround Hosting Ltd.  
3rd Floor, 11-12 St. James's Square  
London SW1Y 4LB

&nbsp;&nbsp;+44.800.8620379

Well, given that it is past midnight your way, I just called +1 800.828.9231.  
A store with some 300 programs will appear in the cPanel once the account is set up. You can do a 1-click install, Debra said.

Again locating the cPanel demo ([Web Hosting Crafted For Top Website Performance & Speed - SiteGround](https://www.siteground.com/cpanel-hosting.htm) link at end of para) and clicking on autoinstallers, Softaculous, I find [http://siteground190.com:2082/cpsess2567893678/frontend/Crystal/softaculous/index.live.php?act=software&soft=36](http://siteground190.com:2082/cpsess2567893678/frontend/Crystal/softaculous/index.live.php?act=software&soft=36)

Related scripts: phpBB SMF AEF Vanilla PunBB.

Looks like it is clear sailing. Pretty good all around.

I suppose this is one reason for their super ratings.

I see that they run a U.S. holiday promotion -- Labor Day. That is this weekend. The GrowBig package is $1.40 less at $4.55 per month. Not so fast. That is only for a 12 month buy. For 36 months, the total is $214.20. I am pretty sure that is what we want.

Bruce endorsed this and defers to you and I.

Given that I have the domain registration and current setup at my fingertips, and also that it will be easy for Rick to write me a check with reimbursement, I propose that I set up the account and have SiteGround transfer iapct.org. I will register board@iapct.org as contact name (I almost never hear from PowWeb and don't expect the board will hear from SiteGround until the account needs to be renewed.) Once the account is in place, I will set up email forwarding: board@iapct.org to the board and yourself. For account name and address I suggest I enter Bruce Nevin's name and coordinates.

When done, I will forward Godaddy registration to Bruce with cc: to you, and the entire SiteGround account particulars to the two of you. Once done, you will control the user name and password for the account. For the existing site, I will zip it all and send it to you so you get the template and cs.css file that goes with the current setup. Created in Dreamweaver, which you now have.

I will call first and try to claim the benefit of the Labor Day promotion.  
Do we have any questions?

Here is one: GrowBig comes with one year free Wildcard SSL, a $30 value, they say. I don't think our system calls for that. Regular SSL suffices. We shall not set that up for autorenew, methinketh.

Bruce posted some info regarding PCT.net. Will Bruce make an offer?

How about PCTnet.org? Would bruce want to register a domain name for the Forum so it will have a separate domain?

Standing by,

Dag

> **···**
>
> > [From Rupert Young (2017.09.01 16.15)]
> > 
> > (Dag Forssell (2017.08.31 23:20 PDT)]
> > 
> > > If the Control Panel called cPanel (see link to demo) is OK with Rupert, I suggest that IAPCT go with an account at SiteGround.
> > 
> > Sure. Do they offer MyBB as an application?
> > 
> > Rupert

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![rupert](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/f14d63/32.png) [@rupert](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/rupert)\
**Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 11:03am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/successor-to-csg-net/10892/38 "2017-09-02T11:03:50Z")

</div>

[From Rupert Young (2017.09.02 12.00)]

(Dag Forssell (2017.09.01 15:30 PDT)]

> As I understand it, a host does not have to have a ready-made install package.

Just had a chat with SiteGround and they do have this for MyBB.

> For the existing site, I will zip it all and send it to you so you get the template and cs.css file that goes with the current setup. Created in Dreamweaver, which you now have.

Is this something someone else could do as it is separate from the forum?

> Here is one: GrowBig comes with one year free Wildcard SSL, a $30 value, they say. I don't think our system calls for that. Regular SSL suffices. We shall not set that up for autorenew, methinketh.

I agree (though don't know what Wildcard SSL is).

> Bruce posted some info regarding PCT.net. Will Bruce make an offer?
> 
> How about PCTnet.org? Would bruce want to register a domain name for the Forum so it will have a separate domain?

What is this for? I'd understood the official name of the organisation was now IAPCT, so it would seem logical to have a corresponding domain name. My assumption was that an official website would be on www.iapct.org and the forum on forum.iapct.org (if iapct.org is the domain chosen).

Regards,  
Rupert

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![MartinT](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/ee7513/32.png) [@MartinT](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/MartinT)\
**Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 11:41am UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/successor-to-csg-net/10892/39 "2017-09-02T11:41:31Z")

</div>

[Martin Taylor 2017.09.02.07.28]

> [From Rupert Young (2017.09.02 12.00)]
> 
> (Dag Forssell (2017.09.01 15:30 PDT)]  
> ...
> 
> > Bruce posted some info regarding PCT.net. Will Bruce make an offer?
> > 
> > How about PCTnet.org? Would bruce want to register a domain name for the Forum so it will have a separate domain?
> 
> What is this for? I'd understood the official name of the organisation was now IAPCT, so it would seem logical to have a corresponding domain name. My assumption was that an official website would be on www.iapct.org and the forum on forum.iapct.org (if iapct.org is the domain chosen).

I would, as a person who came across this by googling, assume that iapct.org would be primarily about IAPCT (the organization), whereas pct.net would be about PCT.

The trouble with the name PCT is that the Wikipedia disambiguation page for PCT has 22 entries. Maybe that isn't important, but maybe it is. Anyway, I would think that under the umbrella of PCT.net there would be a small section, a subdomain or a forum section, about the organization. The theory is big and complicated, with sections of the forum on such things as the mathematics of control, biological and mechanical implementation of control (robots), applications of control, sociology of control, etc. etc. IAPCT supports PCT development and propagation, not the other way round.

Names do matter.

Martin

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![DagArchive](http://discourse.iapct.org/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@DagArchive](http://discourse.iapct.org/u/DagArchive)\
**Post date:** [September 2, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](http://discourse.iapct.org/t/successor-to-csg-net/10892/40 "2017-09-02T19:05:39Z")

</div>

[Dag Forssell (2017.09.01 15:30 PDT)]

See notes below

> [From Rupert Young (2017.09.02 12.00)]
> 
> (Dag Forssell (2017.09.01 15:30 PDT)]
> 
> > As I understand it, a host does not have to have a ready-made install package.
> 
> Just had a chat with SiteGround and they do have this for MyBB.
> 
> > For the existing site, I will zip it all and send it to you so you get the template and cs.css file that goes with the current setup. Created in Dreamweaver, which you now have.
> 
> Is this something someone else could do as it is separate from the forum?

DF: You have volunteered to handle the forum, using MyBB software.  
I can continue to serve as webmaster for the rest.  
No need to send you files for Dreamweaver.

> > Here is one: GrowBig comes with one year free Wildcard SSL, a $30 value, they say. I don't think our system calls for that. Regular SSL suffices. We shall not set that up for autorenew, methinketh.
> 
> I agree (though don't know what Wildcard SSL is).

DF: I googled it and it seems to be a wrap-around SSL service. We do not need it.

> > Bruce posted some info regarding PCT.net. Will Bruce make an offer?
> > 
> > How about PCTnet.org? Would bruce want to register a domain name for the Forum so it will have a separate domain?
> 
> What is this for? I'd understood the official name of the organisation was now IAPCT, so it would seem logical to have a corresponding domain name. My assumption was that an official website would be on www.iapct.org and the forum on forum.iapct.org (if iapct.org is the domain chosen).

DF: While considering what level of service we would buy, single web site or multiple, I floated the idea that the forum could have its own domain with a shorter URL, such as PCTnet.org, which is available. This would then be a second site. Our account would have two: iapct.org and pctnet.org. They would point to each other, such as Martin suggests this morning [Martin Taylor 2017.09.02.07.28].

Based on my idea, Bruce [Bruce Nevin 2017.09.01.10:54 ET)] expressed a like for pct.net, so I tried to ask him just how serious he is about that.

Martin points out that there are 22 definitions for the acronym PCT. So I think calling our forum PCTnet makes more sense, having its own URL pctnet.org.

So my suggestion at the moment is that I set up our account with SiteGround for multiple websites, transfer the existing IAPCT.org and continue as webmaster for it.

I would register pctnet.org and set it up as a second site at SiteGround.  
You are webmaster and set up MyBB there.

We both have access to the root of the account (the entire system), meaning databases and such for you, email accounts and forwarding for me. FTP access to the board's web pages for the board.

Going forward, other sites 100% dedicated to PCT, such as Adam Matic's PCT-Labs, currently hosted at my system, can be hosted under this umbrella too.

All of these musings are suggestions on my part.

Let me know what makes most sense from your point of view.

BTW, got your mail from Patreon. Nice going 🙂

Best, Dag

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