The are just 2 kinds of disturbance in the world (was Re: Target Model Exercise)

(Gavin Ritz 2011.06.08.11.57NZT)

[From Richard Kennaway
(2011.06.08.1008 BST)]

I looked for de Lange on Google, and I found a one-page summary of

who he is at
http://www.eoht.info/page/Adriaan+de+Lange. Rather a

long page, but I think the first paragraph is
enough. The root page,

http://www.eoht.info/ and the related site

http://www.humanthermodynamics.com/ are also
illuminating on the

matter. Gavin has a page at EOHT as well:

http://www.eoht.info/page/Gavin+Ritz.

I believe that just a few minutes perusing this
material will give a

clear and accurate idea of its exact importance.

I’m not sure of what
you are trying to prove by this but I guess it’s an attempt to try dis-credit
me.

There seems like a
genuine attempt on this list to drive me away and now to discredit me.

Actually Richard,
some fruitcake wrote that stuff, not even sure where or how he got hold of this
information. He does not know me or de Lange.

If you do a Google search
and you accept the first thing you read, well so be it.

It’s just plain
garbage some of it. I have asked him to remove it however as the internet is open
for anyone to do or say anything I am powerless to get that removed, short of
getting a legal injunction.

Gavin

[From Richard Kennaway (2011.06.08.1334 BST)]

···

At 13:11 +0100 8/6/11, Gavin Ritz wrote:

Actually Richard, some fruitcake wrote that stuff, not even sure where or how he got hold of this information. He does not know me or de Lange.

If you do a Google search and you accept the first thing you read, well so be it.

It�s just plain garbage some of it. I have asked him to remove it however as the internet is open for anyone to do or say anything I am powerless to get that removed, short of getting a legal injunction.

I did dig deeper than the first hit. Apart from anything else, there are a lot of people called Adriaan de Lange. But if there's anything of more substance on the web about his work, I have not found it on Google, Google Scholar, Citeseer, Amazon, or Wikipedia.

--
Richard Kennaway, jrk@cmp.uea.ac.uk, Richard Kennaway
School of Computing Sciences,
University of East Anglia, Norwich NR4 7TJ, U.K.

[From Bill Powers (2011.06.08.0757 MDT)]

Gavin Ritz wrote:

(Gavin Ritz
2011.06.08.22.46NZT)

[From Bill Powers
(2011.06.07.0809 MDT)]

Gavin Ritz 2011.06.04.10.32NZT

BP: That sounds strange
to me. What does the mind know about chromatographic spectrums, and how
can it know that? How is learning like a chromatographic spectrum? Can
you explain further, or don’t you understand it either?

GR: The mind knows nothing of chromatographic spectrums. In De Lange’s
experiments he found that learning in the human mind has the same
patterns as a chromatograph spectrum.

In your reply to Richard Kennaway’s post, you seem to be repudiating the
material on Adrien de Lange that Richard Kennaway found, although it
appears to present the same ideas you are talking about. Following up on
Richard’s link to your writings, I found this citation of your
writings:

“The fundamental formula can therefore show what type of balance is
required to keep an organization or society from too much or too little
concentrated Gibbs free energy change and work. If, for example, too much
free energy of individuals in a society is concentrated on a singular
qualitative value, such as purity, this can lead to massive societal and
organizational destruction like national socialism.”

Richard is correct: the free energy concept as applied in both his words
and yours, “gives a clear and accurate idea of its exact
importance.”

Your kind of theorizing has very little to do with PCT, if anything at
all. This is why you feel that PCTers have not treated you well. We
simply have no understanding of what you mean or why what you say is
important; there is no actual communication. I think that further
criticizing what you say would be unkind and counterproductive, so I will
simply call a halt to my comments until I have something positive to
say.

I’m sorry because I know your appreciation of PCT is sincere, but we live
in completely different universes of discourse, and right now I see no
hope of ever finding common ground. If you continue to find PCT of use in
your work I will be pleased, but there is little reason to continue our
discussions since there is nothing I can either gain from or contribute
to your work. I hope that if there are kernels of wisdom in your ideas, I
will some day appreciate them. I can’t do so now.

Yours truly,

Bill Powers

(Gavin Ritz 2011.06.09.9.49NZT)

[From Bill Powers
(2011.06.08.0757 MDT)]

(Gavin
Ritz 2011.06.08.22.46NZT)
[From Bill Powers (2011.06.07.0809 MDT)]

Gavin Ritz 2011.06.04.10.32NZT –

BP: That sounds strange to
me. What does the mind know about chromatographic spectrums, and how can it
know that? How is learning like a chromatographic spectrum? Can you explain
further, or don’t you understand it either?

GR: The mind knows nothing of chromatographic spectrums. In De Lange’s
experiments he found that learning in the human mind has the same patterns as a
chromatograph spectrum.

In your reply to Richard Kennaway’s post, you seem to be repudiating the
material on Adrien de Lange that Richard Kennaway found, although it appears to
present the same ideas you are talking about. Following up on Richard’s link to
your writings, I found this citation of your writings:

“The fundamental formula can therefore show what type of balance is
required to keep an organization or society from too much or too little
concentrated Gibbs free energy change and work. If, for example, too much free
energy of individuals in a society is concentrated on a singular qualitative
value, such as purity, this can lead to massive societal and organizational
destruction like national socialism.”

Yes, he took parts of published documents
and posted them on his website. This guy from what I understand would change the
Thermodynamics sections on Wikipedia and was ultimately banned from doing
so. His internet name Libb Thims, he seems to have a book published that’s sold on Amazon, is
Bill Smith (not his real name
either) backwards. This guy is just strange. His entire bio on me was patched
together from stuff on the internet. Even my picture is over 15 years old, he
got that from a web site I had 12 years ago when I was involved in Human
Resources.

I must say he’s no fool he does seem
to have an understanding of thermodynamics.

Richard is correct: the free energy concept as applied in both
his words and yours, “gives a clear and accurate idea of its exact
importance.”

Its importance is paramount in living
biological systems, of that there is no doubt. Ask any chemist or biochemist if
you don’t trust my comments.

Your kind of theorizing has very little to do with PCT, if anything at all.

This is just not true by any means. Work,
energy, light, sound, heat is all part of PCT and all have direct relationships
to thermodynamics.

This is why you feel that
PCTers have not treated you well.

Even if some of my stuff is not understood
there is no reason to try discredit or find personal fault with me, this is
conflict forming and I think just the opposite of what PCT is trying to
achieve.

We simply have no
understanding of what you mean or why what you say is important; there is no
actual communication. I think that further criticizing what you say would be
unkind and counterproductive, so I will simply call a halt to my comments until
I have something positive to say.

Fair enough. I accept this.

I’m sorry because I know your appreciation of PCT is sincere, but we live in
completely different universes of discourse, and right now I see no hope of
ever finding common ground.

There are enormous swathes of common
ground.

If you continue to find
PCT of use in your work I will be pleased,

Thank you.

but there is little
reason to continue our discussions since there is nothing I can either gain
from or contribute to your work. I hope that if there are kernels of wisdom in
your ideas, I will some day appreciate them. I can’t do so now.

Fair enough thank you for your kind words.

Kind regards

Gavin

Yours truly,

Bill Powers