At 9:53 Bill wrote about Re: Theology and PCT on 18 Aug 99,
[From Norman Hovda (990818 MST)]
[From Bill Powers (990818 MDT)]
Kenny Kitzke (990817.2220 EDT)--
>My speculation is about a higher level system that sets the reference
>perceptions for the system levels in humans rather than a "reorganization"
>system. Riding a bike would seem to be at the lower sensual and mental
>levels of reference perceptions.
Let's ask the basic questions about your ideas: If what you say is true,
and if HPCT is the correct model, what is implied, and what should we
observe?
If there is a higher-level system that sets system reference signals, what
sets the reference signals for that higher-level system? And when you
answer that question, I can ask it again about the answer you give.
Eventually we will get to the highest level, and my understanding of your
proposal is that God sets the reference signals at that level.
And god's reference signals are the result of reorganization?
nth
from [ Marc Abrams (990818.1418) ]
At 9:53 Bill wrote about Re: Theology and PCT on 18 Aug 99,
[From Norman Hovda (990818 MST)]
> [From Bill Powers (990818 MDT)]
> If there is a higher-level system that sets system reference signals,
what
> sets the reference signals for that higher-level system? And when you
> answer that question, I can ask it again about the answer you give.
> Eventually we will get to the highest level, and my understanding of
your
> proposal is that God sets the reference signals at that level.
And god's reference signals are the result of reorganization?
No, from being omnipotent. If he is not omnipotent, who tells god what to
do?
Marc
At 14:20 Marc wrote about Re: Theology and PCT on 18 Aug 99,
[From Norman Hovda (990818.11:31 MST)]
From [ Marc Abrams (990818.1418) ]
> At 9:53 Bill wrote about Re: Theology and PCT on 18 Aug 99,
> [From Norman Hovda (990818 MST)]
> > [From Bill Powers (990818 MDT)]
> > If there is a higher-level system that sets system reference signals,
what
> > sets the reference signals for that higher-level system? And when you
> > answer that question, I can ask it again about the answer you give.
> > Eventually we will get to the highest level, and my understanding of
your
> > proposal is that God sets the reference signals at that level.
>
> And god's reference signals are the result of reorganization?
No, from being omnipotent. If he is not omnipotent, who tells god what to
do?
Marc
Can god set a reference signal s/he can't control for?
<g>
nth
from [ Marc Abrams (99081501) ]
At 14:20 Marc wrote about Re: Theology and PCT on 18 Aug 99,
[From Norman Hovda (990818.11:31 MST)]
Can god set a reference signal s/he can't control for?
Are we assuming that god is human? 
If so, he has to stand in line like
everyone else. reference levels are set in the hierarchy. If we are
talking about an omnipotent god I don't think _anything_ else matters
Marc
[From Kenny Kitzke (990818.2200EDT)]
<Norman Hovda (990818 MST)>
<And god's reference signals are the result of reorganization?>
Why worry about what is not real? Be happy. Concern yourself with something
real we can understand, like the reorganization system in man. Got any
experiments in mind?
Kenny
If so, he has to stand in line like