Video recordings of past CSG meetings

[From Richard Kennaway (2014.01.07 1136 GMT)]

I've just remembered that I have a large collection of video tapes of past CSG meetings that I received from Dag at the meeting at Schloss Kroechlendorff in 1997. I am wondering what to do with them, as they're no good to anyone sitting on my shelves. The original intention was that I would hold them to lend out to people, but there hasn't been any demand for that, and nowadays video tapes are obsolete technology.

I have the hardware and software necessary for transferring them to movie files on the computer, so I propose to do that, simply to preserve the historical record. These are unedited tapes of the meetings, so primarily of historical interest.

It's a fairly slow process, taking about twice real time to create the final movie files, and there are around 60 tapes.

I've already done this with one tape, a recording of a two-hour presentation of PCT by Bill, professionally produced by Ed Ford. The tape doesn't say where or when it was recorded. I'll put it up on my Dropbox account this evening so people can see what sort of video quality I get.

···

--
Richard Kennaway, R.Kennaway@uea.ac.uk, http://www.cmp.uea.ac.uk/~jrk/
School of Computing Sciences,
University of East Anglia, Norwich NR4 7TJ, U.K.

[From Richard Kennaway
(2014.01.07 1136 GMT)]

I’ve just remembered that I have a large collection of video tapes of
past CSG meetings that I received from Dag at the meeting at Schloss
Kroechlendorff in 1997. I am wondering what to do with them, as
they’re no good to anyone sitting on my shelves. The original
intention was that I would hold them to lend out to people, but there
hasn’t been any demand for that, and nowadays video tapes are obsolete
technology.

I have the hardware and software necessary for transferring them to movie
files on the computer, so I propose to do that, simply to preserve the
historical record. These are unedited tapes of the meetings, so
primarily of historical interest.

It’s a fairly slow process, taking about twice real time to create the
final movie files, and there are around 60 tapes.

I’ve already done this with one tape, a recording of a two-hour
presentation of PCT by Bill, professionally produced by Ed Ford.
The tape doesn’t say where or when it was recorded. I’ll put it up
on my Dropbox account this evening so people can see what sort of video
quality I get.

Richard Kennaway, R.Kennaway@uea.ac.uk,

http://www.cmp.uea.ac.uk/~jrk/

School of Computing Sciences,

University of East Anglia, Norwich NR4 7TJ,
U.K.
[From Dag Forssell (2014.01.07 0825 PST)]

Richard,

I digitized all CSGnet videos four years ago – my original camera tapes
as well as the edited LP tapes I gave you back in Burgdorf. Each
conference holds a lot of junk presentations as well as a few nuggets. I
have thought that I should edit them down to the nuggets and post those
on Vimeo, but my time for PCT stuff has been very limited.

I claim copyright for the videos I produced and Lloyd Klinedinst can
claim copyright for some conferences he recorded. Altogether something
more than 300 hours.

I will welcome a serious discussion about how to process these and make
relevant parts available.

The four 1/2 hour tapes produced by Ed Ford were done prior to 1989, when
I got a copy from Ed. I understand Ed set Bill up. Bill told me later he
was not prepared.

Best, Dag

In the editor’s preface to Dialogue

···

At 03:36 AM 1/7/2014, you wrote:

[From Dag Forssell (2014.01.07 0825 PST)]

Richard,

I digitized all CSGnet videos four years ago – my original camera tapes
as well as the edited LP tapes I gave you back in Burgdorf. Each
conference holds a lot of junk presentations as well as a few nuggets. I
have thought that I should edit them down to the nuggets and post those
on Vimeo, but my time for PCT stuff has been very limited.

I claim copyright for the videos I produced and Lloyd Klinedinst can
claim copyright for some conferences he recorded. Altogether something
more than 300 hours.

I will welcome a serious discussion about how to process these and make
relevant parts available.

The four 1/2 hour tapes produced by Ed Ford were done prior to 1989, when
I got a copy from Ed. I understand Ed set Bill up. Bill told me later he
was not prepared.

Best, Dag

In the editor’s preface to Dialogue

[From Richard Kennaway
(2014.01.07 1136 GMT)]

I’ve just remembered that I have a large collection of video tapes of
past CSG meetings that I received from Dag at the meeting at Schloss
Kroechlendorff in 1997. I am wondering what to do with them, as
they’re no good to anyone sitting on my shelves. The original
intention was that I would hold them to lend out to people, but there
hasn’t been any demand for that, and nowadays video tapes are obsolete
technology.

I have the hardware and software necessary for transferring them to movie
files on the computer, so I propose to do that, simply to preserve the
historical record. These are unedited tapes of the meetings, so
primarily of historical interest.

It’s a fairly slow process, taking about twice real time to create the
final movie files, and there are around 60 tapes.

I’ve already done this with one tape, a recording of a two-hour
presentation of PCT by Bill, professionally produced by Ed Ford.
The tape doesn’t say where or when it was recorded. I’ll put it up
on my Dropbox account this evening so people can see what sort of video
quality I get.

Richard Kennaway, R.Kennaway@uea.ac.uk,

http://www.cmp.uea.ac.uk/~jrk/

School of Computing Sciences,

University of East Anglia, Norwich NR4 7TJ,
U.K.

···

I might suggest if there are videos or other documents anyone is reluctant to dispose of, perhaps we can include them with Dad’s archives which will be sent to Northwestern University, hopefully sometime this summer.

Thanks!

*barb

[From Matti Kolu (2013.01.07.1920 CET)]

If the aim is to preserve the historical record it might be a good
idea to upload the digitized videos, as they are, to archive.org under
a Creative Commons license. As a digital library, archive.org has been
preserving massive amounts of digital information for the last fifteen
years. They received over $1 million in donations last year, meaning
that they are fairly well supported by "the internet community". For
an already digitized video the time-investment for making it available
on the Internet Archive is fairly low. Accessability to the material
is maximized, there are no additional costs for video hosting, and no
information is lost.

Matti

[From Richard Kennaway (2014.01.07 17:46 GMT)]

[From Dag Forssell (2014.01.07 0825 PST)]

I digitized all CSGnet videos four years ago -- my original camera tapes as well as the edited LP tapes I gave you back in Burgdorf. Each conference holds a lot of junk presentations as well as a few nuggets. I have thought that I should edit them down to the nuggets and post those on Vimeo, but my time for PCT stuff has been very limited.

Ok, that will save me doing it. Is it worth my holding onto the video tapes still? As I say, VCRs are obsolete, and I may get rid of mine once I've digitised all the cassettes of my own that I still have.

The four 1/2 hour tapes produced by Ed Ford were done prior to 1989, when I got a copy from Ed. I understand Ed set Bill up. Bill told me later he was not prepared.

I'd never tell from the video. :slight_smile: Are those digitised already? My digitisation is currently uploading (rather slowly) to a private folder on Dropbox. I can share URLs to individual files when it's there.

-- Richard

···

--
Richard Kennaway, R.Kennaway@uea.ac.uk, Richard Kennaway
School of Computing Sciences,
University of East Anglia, Norwich NR4 7TJ, U.K.

[From Richard Kennaway
(2014.01.07 17:46 GMT)]

[From Dag Forssell (2014.01.07 0825 PST)]

I digitized all CSGnet videos four years ago – my original camera
tapes as well as the edited LP tapes I gave you back in Burgdorf. Each
conference holds a lot of junk presentations as well as a few nuggets. I
have thought that I should edit them down to the nuggets and post those
on Vimeo, but my time for PCT stuff has been very limited.

Ok, that will save me doing it. Is it worth my holding onto the
video tapes still? As I say, VCRs are obsolete, and I may get rid
of mine once I’ve digitised all the cassettes of my own that I still
have.

The four 1/2 hour tapes produced by Ed Ford were done prior to 1989,
when I got a copy from Ed. I understand Ed set Bill up. Bill told me
later he was not prepared.

I’d never tell from the video. :slight_smile: Are those digitised
already? My digitisation is currently uploading (rather slowly) to
a private folder on Dropbox. I can share URLs to individual files when
it’s there.
[From Dag Forssell (2014.01.07 1040 PST)]

Richard,

No, I have not digitized Ed Ford’s videos. I think I should and add them
to my 3TB archive. I have a canopus PCI card and a VHS editing deck that
does a good job of syncing up to tapes. Files are all .mpg. Digitized 8mm
camera tapes are of course of better quality than the digitized Long Play
VHS tapes.

Matti’s info is interesting. But I think some editing is in order before
any wholesale upload is undertanken. Educational value varies. Some is
completely irrelevant.

Best, Dag

···

At 10:21 AM 1/7/2014, you wrote:

[From Richard Kennaway (2014.01.01 19:57 GMT)]

[From Dag Forssell (2014.01.07 1040 PST)]

No, I have not digitized Ed Ford's videos. I think I should and add them to my 3TB archive. I have a canopus PCI card and a VHS editing deck that does a good job of syncing up to tapes. Files are all .mpg. Digitized 8mm camera tapes are of course of better quality than the digitized Long Play VHS tapes.

The first half-hour segment is up at Dropbox at
https://www.dropbox.com/s/89v2soa2d9i8sik/PCT-Part1.m4v

But if you have Ed Ford's original material then I expect that will digitise better.

-- Richard

···

--
Richard Kennaway, R.Kennaway@uea.ac.uk, Richard Kennaway
School of Computing Sciences,
University of East Anglia, Norwich NR4 7TJ, U.K.

[From Adam Matic 2014.01.08. 0010 CET]

Great to see the videos. Just a quick note. The PCT-Part1.m4v video file is quite large. I converted it down to 50 MB to see how it will look and sound: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/70399093/PCT-Part1_x264_002.mp4

Here’s the freeware program I used: AnyVideoConverter http://www.any-video-converter.com/products/for_video_free/

Settings:

file format: mp4

video size: 352x240

Quality: Low (small file size)

Video Codec: x264

Video Bitrate 192

Frame Rate 25

Encode Pass: 2

Audio Codec: aac

Audio Bitrate: 96

Sample Rate: 32000

Audio Channel: 2

···

On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 8:59 PM, Richard Kennaway (CMP) R.Kennaway@uea.ac.uk wrote:

[From Richard Kennaway (2014.01.01 19:57 GMT)]

[From Dag Forssell (2014.01.07 1040 PST)]

No, I have not digitized Ed Ford’s videos. I think I should and add them to my 3TB archive. I have a canopus PCI card and a VHS editing deck that does a good job of syncing up to tapes. Files are all .mpg. Digitized 8mm camera tapes are of course of better quality than the digitized Long Play VHS tapes.

The first half-hour segment is up at Dropbox at

https://www.dropbox.com/s/89v2soa2d9i8sik/PCT-Part1.m4v

But if you have Ed Ford’s original material then I expect that will digitise better.

– Richard

Richard Kennaway, R.Kennaway@uea.ac.uk, http://www.cmp.uea.ac.uk/~jrk/

School of Computing Sciences,

University of East Anglia, Norwich NR4 7TJ, U.K.

[From Rick Marken (2014.01.07.1730)]

Adam Matic (2014.01.08. 0010 CET)--

AM: Great to see the videos. Just a quick note. The PCT-Part1.m4v video
file is quite large. I converted it down to 50 MB to see how it will look and
sound:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/70399093/PCT-Part1_x264_002.mp4

RM: These work great Adam. And how timely! His talk is about exactly
what we've been talking about on the net lately: 1) the theory
explains a _phenomenon_ so the talk starts with a description of the
behavioral phenomenon to be explained: the production of consistent
results by variable means in the face of disturbances, ie. the
phenomenon of control 2) this phenomenon occurs in a closed loop where
all events in the loop are happening _at the same time_; looking at
the loop in sequential terms is a mistake that leads to predictions
that are inconsistent with the observation (of control).

I highly recommend this series of videos. But this first video gives a
nice, clear introduction to the phenomenon the PCT explains -- control
-- and it's sure nice to see Bill.

Best

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken PhD
www.mindreadings.com

The only thing that will redeem mankind is cooperation.
                                                   -- Bertrand Russell

[From Richard Kennaway (2014.01.08 07:45 GMT)]

Here are links to parts 2, 3, and 4:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1pjhy90eiawsugi/PCT-Part2.m4v
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t1wzqldkv0ae3hd/PCT-Part3.m4v
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7t05c4vtye9vo1b/PCT-Part4.m4v

They're of a similar size to part 1, i.e. around 600MB each. I can try compressing them further as Adam suggested, but for these, I wanted to preserve as much of the quality as I could. (The uncompressed recording straight from the VCR runs to about 15GB per half hour.)

-- Richard

···

--
Richard Kennaway, R.Kennaway@uea.ac.uk, http://www.cmp.uea.ac.uk/~jrk/
School of Computing Sciences,
University of East Anglia, Norwich NR4 7TJ, U.K.

[From Adam Matic 2014.01.08.1410 CET]

[From Richard Kennaway <tel:%282014.01.08%2007>(2014.01.08 07:45 GMT)]
Here are links to parts 2, 3, and 4:

<Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life; Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life
<Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life; Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life
<Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life; Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life

They're of a similar size to part 1, i.e. around 600MB each. I can try compressing them further as Adam suggested, but for these, I wanted to preserve as much of the quality as I could. (The uncompressed recording straight from the VCR runs to about 15GB per half hour.)

Thank you for uploading them!
As you say, it's probably best to have the highest possible quality for the CSGnet and archival purposes. If you chose to upload them to youtube, vimeo, <http://archive.org>archive.org or similar, it might be more convenient to have smaller files even if the quality is somewhat reduced.
I'm really looking forward to all the videos mentioned on the thread.
Adam

[From Matti Kolu (2014.01.10.1945 CET)]

Dag Forssell (2014.01.07 1040 PST)--

Matti's info is interesting. But I think some editing is in order before any
wholesale upload is undertanken. Educational value varies. Some is
completely irrelevant.

It is important to differentiate between the historical and the
immediate educational value of the tapes. From an educational
standpoint I am sure that much of recorded material can be discarded.
It seems to me, however, that the historical value of the tapes might
prove to be larger than what many of those who attended the meetings
might realize. If your assessment of the importance of Powers work is
correct, the tapes provide a valuable historical context for the
cultural environment in which the ideas of perceptual control were
developed.

Burkhardt Jr, in the introductory chapter of "Patterns of Behavior:
Konrad Lorenz, Niko Tinbergen, and the Founding of Ethology" (2005),
writes:

"In the course of my research and writing in the history of ethology
(a project I began twenty-five years ago), I have consulted a vast
array of books and journals interviewed many of the field's early
practitioners, and examined a wide range of manuscript correspondence,
field notes, and other items. Each of these sources has its advantages
and its limitations. Published scientific papers and books stand as
the public record of scientific accomplishment, but as Peter Medawar
has explained in an often-cited observation, the scientific paper
serves to disguise how scientific knowledge is produced. Interviews in
turn can provide invaluable insights into aspects of the scientific
enterprise that are usually not recorded in scientific papers, but
memory is a tricky resource in itself, inevitably involving
considerable selection and reconstruction. Manuscript correspondence
and other documents might seem a surer means of reconstructing what a
person thought or did at a specific time but these too require
analysis and interpretation, as do the circumstances through which
some things are preserved for posterity and some are not. I have used
a wealth of manuscript sources in writing this book, but I am
conscious that their testimony needs to be put in context and
interpreted in much the same way as any other source of information."

I have not seen the tapes, other than those uploaded by Richard, nor
attended any of the meetings, so I might very well be wrong, but I
suspect that some of the videos might contain "insights into aspects
of the scientific enterprise that are usually not recorded in
scientific papers".

Placing the material on archive.org should not be thought of as
publishing educational content. Archive.org is today's equivalence of
what used to be a storage box in a university basement -- a place for
preservation. With the material on archive.org, interested researchers
all over the world will have convenient access to the information.
Selection of the appropriate Creative Commons license ensures that the
material won't be used for commercial purposes. Storage and
preservation of the videos on archive.org should be thought of as
distinct and separate from publishing the "good bits" for educational
purposes on sites such as Youtube or Vimeo.

Matti